Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive through December 06, 2004	42		12/29 09:05am

I've always liked the cadet cruiser game for teaching newcomers.

Especially ones who have become familiar with the SFU via other products than SFB.

(To be honest, I've played SFB 1 time in the last 5 years, not counting cadet games; using cadet cruisers I've played some dozen games in that same time. The SFB Rulebook scares people.)

The Cadet ships are a great way to train a variety of both tactical and EA nifties WITHOUT having to time of a full blown SFB game. Having a range of weapons and CdtC's, specifically covering all the races' CA paradigms (Like the Romulan 1 big plasma 1st gens vs the KR and Hawk multiple medium plasmas, and Hydran Fusion vs Helbore vs Mixed) would be nice. After all, a cadet cruiser game should take no more than an hour (1/4 the damage capability, 1/2 firepower, and a 16 impulse chart).

And even if the Web Rules aren't in the new CTM, a Thol. CdtC, CdtPC, and NT-CdtC (the small ones, yes) would be useful for those who use the small cadet ships as trainers or "fast games".

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Monday, March 28, 2005 - 12:14 am: Edit

William. Check out http://www.geocities.com/andypalmer/cadet.html

By Darren Kehrer (Kehrer1701) on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 09:36 am: Edit

What's the latest on either posting this as a free download (just as it is/was)?
Reprints coming?
My only suggestion would be to add two ships per race, to give variety if one person likes Feds, etc.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 09:41 am: Edit

Leanna is working on posting it. we're still looking into reprints. The big problem there is that our existing equipment is perfect binding and the internal map is designed for saddle stitch. Going to have to reformat the product and probably make it a folio rather than a booklet.

By Björn Doolaeghe (Baktru) on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 09:04 am: Edit

Hiya!

As a player who has actually learnt SFB through the Cadet Manual twice (once ten years ago, got back a couple weeks ago), I think I can comment on it...

I got a version of it about 10 years ago and went through it completely before buying more SFB material... A short while ago (the SFB stuff box got lost in a move ), I restarted with the Cadet Manual PDF that was on the Starfleet Command II game...

Things I really like about it now:

--> Inclusion of more races! The addition of the ISC and Hydrans for instance is a big plus. It gives a better picture of the diversity in SFB.
--> The Mini Cadet ships. I think they actually work very well to show the difference in playing styles between the races. Exception: their turn modes. I think they need a 3 step turn mode.
--> Gradual introduction to SFB which actually works. (see also: Chapter K in Advanced Squad Leader which i similar and works as well)
--> No Tholians. I agree Web would be too complex.

Some issues I have with it:

--> Plasma seems a bit overpowered on those small fixed maps with no WWs. A detail though.
--> The lack of overloads. Of all the MAJIOR rules in SFB, I think this is the only one missing. The Cadet game, IMHO, needs overloads. Speed is Life is properly demonstrated by the game, and then Shield Reinforcement rules are added, but overloads are not. Starcastling is indeed too effective sometimes. Overloads would probably offset this.
--> The Cadet Ships don't seem to exist in SFBOL. I created the first three myself so far (with the gifs from the link above, thanks for pointing those out!) but they should exist... I would never have gotten into ASL if VASL didn't exist. I would never have come back to SFB if SFBOL didn't exist.

Not certain about:

--> The various ships are not all balanced. Best example is the ISC overpowering everyone, but that actually adds flavour.
--> Just one drone type. Simplifies, but one thing about drones is never knowing what is there exactly.

With kind regards,

B.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 11:29 am: Edit

Bjorn. Check out http://www.geocities.com/andypalmer/cadet.html

I need to spend some time and freshen the site up a bit, but it does cover most of your concerns.

Regarding some of your other concerns (overloads, drone types), IMO, the purpose of the Cadet Game is twofold: 1. give players a chance to find out if they're interested in the SFB system and 2. give players a chance to play a ship that has the "feel" of a race, to find out if that's to their liking. As such, IMO, overloads and drone load-outs are out of scope i.e., once you like the SFB system and/or like the drone races, you can "graduate" to full-sized ships.

Regards - Andy

By Björn Doolaeghe (Baktru) on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 11:55 am: Edit

"
I created the first three myself so far (with the gifs from the link above, thanks for pointing those out!)
"

If you are Sir_Goofy on SFBOL, you pointed me there already :-) And I am using those GIFs with the Ship Definition Tool to be able to use the Mini Cruisers on SFBOL. The Fed, Klink and Rom Eagle are done...

"
1. give players a chance to find out if they're interested in the SFB system and
"

It definitely does that. I got into SFB after my first go through the older Manual.

"
2. give players a chance to play a ship that has the "feel" of a race, to find out if that's to their liking.
"

It does that as well. I've been playing SFB for a week now, after a more or less 10 year hiatus. Yesterday I did a mock battle between the Romulan Mini Cruiser and the Fed Mini against myself, getting a feel for the Rom. Immediately after that, I did an SFBol battle, Fed TCC vs. TKE with me flying the Eagle. I must admit my opponent was a newbie as well, but I did score a win by applying what I learned from the Mini's to the big ship. I do not in any way imply that the Cadet Manual doesn't work. It does. However, if one thing is missing from it, IMHO, it is overloads.

By Les LeBlanc (Lessss) on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 11:58 am: Edit

I beleive SVC didn't want the Cadet ships on SFBOL. Hold off on uploading them until you get ok from SVC.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 12:55 pm: Edit

Bjorn, I did some additional ships, based on a lot of the work Andy and Les had already done. Here is the link: http://jgray-sfb.com/cadet/cadet.html

It says something that I did most of these during a few days at the in-laws.

By Björn Doolaeghe (Baktru) on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 06:13 am: Edit

Those are cool :-)

I'll definitely have enough to do now until my Standard Set / Advanced Missions arrive :-)

Thanks for the link.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 11:20 am: Edit

Jeremy... now all you need to do is put those all in one file for download!

They are pretty cool.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 12:18 pm: Edit

To be honest, I hadn't even looked at that link in a couple years. Might have to dust some of the cadet ships I was planning on doing before a drifted away from that particular kick.

Bjorn, any particular requests? I can basically go up a class to a Cadet DN or down a class to a Cadet FF for most races. I really need to do a Kzinti Cadet FF (and a Cadet FFE for that carrier).

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 10:13 am: Edit

Jeremy,

Your site will work perfectly for training my son. Thanks to you, Andy, and Les I should get hours of fun and the beginnings of a new opponent for an old game.

Any additional ships you can post would be fantastic. I also like the Base, maybe a bit larger one (up one level?) for future use.

By Chris Bumbarger (Oscuros) on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 06:51 pm: Edit

Any news on reprinting the cadet manual or releasing the PDF? I'm just learning to play and the rules are a bit daunting at first the book would come in handy.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 07:54 pm: Edit

Is that really your real name?

By William T Wilson (Sheap) on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 08:37 pm: Edit

Heh. OK, I'll actually try to be helpful:

I'm pretty sure the cadet manual PDF is freely redistributable. I don't think ADB would have made it available in that form otherwise. I might be wrong on this point (I'll check my copy that came with SF Command), but if it's OK, I'll email it to you.

Best bet to learn SFB is to find a local gaming group that plays SFB already. It really is. Not only will it make it easier to learn, it'll relieve you of the obligation of trying to convince someone ELSE to play the game with the rulebook that looks like something you'd find on your lawyer's bookshelf.

Failing that, try to find a gaming convention where people are already playing SFB - they're always happy to have more players and might introduce you to a gaming group you didn't know about. While "tournament" SFB sounds intimidating, it's actually easier than the "regular" version of the game, as the rules are slightly simplified to speed up play.

Local game stores often provide a similar resource - you might ask the one where you bought your game from if they know of any other players in the area. You might also post in the "looking for an opponent" thread.

If you're in an area where these things just aren't possible, you could try SFB Online. The players there are *very good* and if you are new, you will do a lot of losing at first. But people there are very helpful and you will be able to learn the game.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 09:40 pm: Edit

Always remember that SFB is like the manual for a TV set. It's actually a lot easier to have fun than the manual would indicate. In fact it's about as easy as BATTLETECH and CAR WARS put together.

Also you could ask SVC for the starlist in your area.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 01:45 pm: Edit

"I'm pretty sure the cadet manual PDF is freely redistributable."

No, it's not. It's our copyright.

It's on our website, so nobody needs to email anybody a copy. They can get it for themselves.

http://starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/CadetHandbook.pdf

http://starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/CadetSSDs.pdf

http://starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/CadetCounters.pdf

By Scott Johnson (Sejembalm) on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 10:22 am: Edit

Updating the Cadet Training Manual:
- Page 48 of the rules is the Basic Impulse Procedure Chart. This has turn and impulse markers on it and having this on the back cover of the rules is awkward (for those who print theirs out on both sides of the paper, which is what the rules are formatted for, and nicely done, too). Have this last page be the "Let's Play SFB" flier at http://www.starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/Lets_Play_SFB.pdf

- Print the Cadet Damage Allocation Chart (D4.21) on page 20 of the cadet rules reprinted in the charts.

- Include the EAF ( http://starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/EAF.pdf ) in the cadet charts ( http://starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/CadetHandbook.pdf ) to play the included full-size training SSDs (Fed CA, Klingon D7, Rom WE, etc.).

- - By the way, the SFB EAF listed in the Master Index ( http://www.starfleetgames.com/masterindex.shtml ) is wrong and instead links to the Iron Crown Enterprises online store. The EAF in the SFB Play Aids Page ( http://starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/index.shtml#SFB ) links to the document properly.

- Have the printable counters provide six of every ship. My gaming friends and I use the Cadet Game to quickly bash out fleet engagements. We use the counters in the Fast Patrol Ships (Module K), along with the Basic Set counters.
- - Or print the map with a cardboard page solely for the cadet counters, instead of (or along with) the counters printed on the margins of the cadet maps.

- Have the full-page cadet SSDs listed in the Cadet Training Page ( http://www.starfleetgames.com/CadetTraining.shtml#documents ) included in the Cadet SSD .pdf download ( http://starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/CadetSSDs.pdf ).

By Scott Johnson (Sejembalm) on Monday, August 30, 2010 - 06:14 pm: Edit

Cadet Campaign Game?

How about rules and scenarios for easy campaign games to fight out in the Cadet/Intro Game?

I remember a group of gaming friends were playing Federation Space, but were fighting out the individual battles in SFB using the Cadet rules, along with house rules to generate the scenario (pursuits, meeting engagements, ambushes, planetary/base defense, convoy raids, etc. along with rules for the presence of planets, asteroid fields, etc.).

After smoothing out the problems, they said it worked out well. They used rules for repairing the ships, and it was interesting to see how well ships could continue fighting battles while incompletely repaired from the previous battles (systems destroyed, shuttles lost, drones exhausted, etc.). Fleet tugs carrying repair pods were quite useful for fleet operations beyond bases.

By Scott Johnson (Sejembalm) on Monday, August 30, 2010 - 10:58 pm: Edit

And for those who like to use the cadet rules to fight out mass fleet battles, the counters in the Module K Fast Patrol Ships work well in this use.

Perhaps it would be beneficial to have basic fleet battle scenarios printed in the Cadet Training Page:

http://www.starfleetgames.com/CadetTraining.shtml

Sure, pretty much any SFB scenario can be translated and played in the cadet game, but having popular fleet scenarios specifically printed in the Cadet Page would be very nice.

By Scott Johnson (Sejembalm) on Thursday, September 16, 2010 - 02:49 pm: Edit

Was toying around with the idea of a highly streamlined and simplified cadet game.

16-impulse turns.

Have the ships fire every turn:
- Disruptor Bolts: one point to arm, may fire twice during a turn, spread a quarter turn (4 impulses) apart [ex: if 4 points of power were allotted for disruptors, a Klingon cadet cruiser fires both disruptors on impulse 2 and then may fire them again that turn on or after impulse 6].
- Photon Torpedoes: two points to arm, may only fire once per turn (get rid of the arming turn rule).
- Plasma Torpedoes: four points to arm. May fire a Plasma-F every turn. Of if you do not fire the plasma that turn, you may spend another four energy points to fire a Plasma-S torpedo the following turn.

Turn modes:
- Every ship may make a turn on every impulse it moves. It may make a 60-degree turn either before or after moving.
- If moving at a speed where the cadet turn mode is 2 (Fed, Gorn, Romulan: 7+, Kzinti: 8+, Klingon, Orion, Tholian: 9+), then the ship may only make a turn after it moves.
- The ship may make a sideslip instead of making a turn that impulse.
- Shuttles, drones, and plasma torpedoes may make a 60-degree turn before and after it moves in an impulse.

This form of SFB is simplistic, but it gets the game moving lightning quick and gets rid of that annoying "did I move straight last impulse, or what" and the players will not have to clutter up the map with turn move markers. And it makes the game even easier to explain an play with new gamers which is the whole point of the cadet game.