Archive through August 27, 2003
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board: The "X" Files: OLD X2 FOLDER: X2 Attrition Units: Archive through August 27, 2003
By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 08:07 pm: Edit

The player would be required to write down his AI-PFs' set of orders and targets, similar to what's done with T-bombs.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 08:28 pm: Edit

No wait, I think RBN's idea could work but to make it a free playable unit would be too much. What's the difference, game wise, from a crewed PF?

However, his idea of attack profile could be revised to mission profile. I suggest this, form a list of missions and give it basic parameters for each mission type that the AI-PF must adhear to. Mission Profiles are given/changed when docked to the Tender.

Example missions:
Tender Defense: Must stay with in 10 hexes of the Tender and attack targets in one of the following priorities: A)Seeking Weapons, Shuttles, Ships/Monsters, B) Ships/Monsters, Shuttles, Seeking weapons.

Target Defense: Same as above but for a unit other than the Tender.

Attack Target: Close to R10 or less and attack target.

Harass Target: Close to R20 but not closer than R10 and attack target.

Scout Target: Close to R10 or less and do not attack.

All Missions include self defense.(Fire at seeking weapons or shuttles with in R3 that are facing the AI-PF. Priority is SW over Shuttles.)
No mission can be changed except while docked to the tender. Three orders can be given over subspace radio:

A) Return: The PF returns imediatly. It no longer attacks but will conduct self defense.

B) Escape battle: The AI-PF will imediatly head at maximum speed directly away from the combat area and loiter at R35 from the closest enemy unit.

C) Resume: This order is given after an A or B order is sent. The AI-PF will imediatly resume it previous mission.

Up to three targets can be programmed per mission written in order. Each target will be engaged, one after another, in order until the target is destroyed, lock-on is lost, or has been scouted for 8 impulses. To aquire more targets the AI-PF must dock to its Tender.

Note:Cloaked ships will have an advantage here. I intended that. Planets are another way to mess with AI-PFs in this rule.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 09:27 pm: Edit

Quote:

What's the difference, game wise, from a crewed PF


No CDR!?!


Here's the thing we are forgetting.
PFs are size class 5...they are big! Bigger than a mac truck with trailer. 25-35 metres is a long way...it's a like a long house.

Now with lots of room in there and X2 computiung technologies, the computers can intererlate a lot of the data stream that is being sent to it.
Further more with 3 times the ammount of data ( actually it's probably more like four times because you'ld want to split up the fighter signals with gaps to avoid confussion ) your PF is probably getting a lot more data to run its opperations.

If we have each crew in a work stations of say 6 and all six workstations in one room our idea can work quite well.

I would also like to note that I think actually the RcPF would be more like an interceptor then a regular PF.

I would also like to point out that X1 Lyrans have a seeking weapon control rate of...it's unlisted on the SSD, XF3.2 list it as equal to the sensor rating so an X2 Lyran can probably guide 6 PFs an a Lyran PFT can guide another 6 with a special sensor.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 09:36 pm: Edit

Loren,

I'm just not sure the idea will fly in a face-to-face battle when only two players are present. It just seems too easy to abuse. KISS.

The Lyran PFs do not have ph-1.
They have a pair of ph-2 and a pair of ph-3.
Would this make an X2PF have 2 ph-1 & 2 ph-6?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 10:12 pm: Edit

Jeff, well the parameters or pretty open as the AI can "Think" for its self but more restrictive than a crewed unit.

Yes, I would think 2 x Ph-1 + 2 x Ph-6. However, if there was no disruptor I could see 2 x Ph-5s with a restricted arc (FA) + two Ph-6. That would be a heck of a unit with a potential of six Ph-6. Nice battle escort. Put two on a XCC!

MJC: I agree, no CDR. Good catch. But I've never had much chance to compleat CDR on a PF so it didn't really come to mind. Lagitement none the less.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Saturday, August 09, 2003 - 10:31 pm: Edit

From the Libary (P6 quote)

Quote:

One rule I have always wanted to use is "multi-system boxes." ... Such a system would also make it practical to design some fairly small "run-around" ships that, because of their X2 phasers and engines, would be really dangerous opponents for non-X ships to run into.


Maybe these "run-around" ships SVC alluded to are the RcPFs we're looking at?
Quote:

Indeed, Tom Clancy once suggested that the next generation of warships would all have unmanned remote-controlled weapons platforms, and that's not a bad idea.



Sounds like a RcPF to me.
-----------------

Another crazy idea:

Shouldn't the XCA class ships be fitted with an Admiral's Yacht?
If so, how would it fit on board?

(See Module J2 (R1.F15) and (R1.F16) for what an SFB Yacht is.)

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 11:06 am: Edit

Sounds suspiciously like the never-seen Captain's Gig from TNG, but what would constitute an Admiral's Yacht?

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 01:26 pm: Edit

I don't know. I remember in the movie "Midway" when one of the American carriers got hit, the Admiral had to transfer his flag. Someone gave the order "Lower the Admiral's Barge"

If it's a barge in WW2, it's a yacht in the 23rd century.

In Module J2, a Yacht is a heavy freight shuttle (3 space) or very heavy freight shuttle (4 space), converted to emphasize the comfort of the passengers.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 01:36 pm: Edit

In X2 I'd rather tote around an advanced G1NX Command PF Leader with integrated WBP as my yacht.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 11:09 pm: Edit

As would I.

But some kind of shuttle is more likely.

I depends on how we go.
I we go the whole YTNG hog and mount the thing as part of the hull, the it'ld probably be a PF but if it sits in the shuttlebay then it's probably a shuttle.
If we go for something inbetween it's own specific holding bay ( under the swiming pool like thunderbird 1 ) then it could be either.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 11:24 pm: Edit

I figure that somehow, the XCA ships (and only the XCA flagships) should be able to land one in the shuttle bay without having to clear out their normal shuttles.

Sure the Admiral's Yacht takes up four shuttle boxes, but if it's the same admiral that's overseeing the designs....

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 11:54 pm: Edit

Quote:

but if it's the same admiral that's overseeing the designs


Purchasing and Combat are probably kept apart...so that the Admirals can specialise.
It's far more likely that the Fed will overveiw the blueprint because they think multiskilling is important.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 02:47 pm: Edit

OK, maybe it's not the same admiral seeing the design and the operation.

I would think that as a flagship for a whole numbered fleet, the XCA would have a few luxury items that would be unique to that ship class.

The admiral's yacht would be one.

My idea for the yacht would be a 4 box shuttle that takes 32 damage, and has 1 FX and 1 RX ph-3 and 3 chaff packs.

I tried making an SSD for a Fed that would double the size of the shuttle bay from 4 to 8 and mark four of the boxes as being reserved for the yacht. I can't say I'm pleased with the look; that's why I haven't given it to John.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 11:23 pm: Edit

Now that I've gone through J2, it looks like Megafighter packs might make the St-X an even more powerful fighter.

CL24 (I think) lists the development history of Hydran fighters.

One of the glaring points was that the St-2 was the largest fighter that could be launched out of the Ranger's launch tubes.

For X2, the ships are supposed to be from-the-keel-up redesigns.

So, for the Hydrans, I have a few ideas:

• A new standard fighter, based on the heavy fighter.
• All X2 ships' launch tubes are reconfigured to launch the new heavy fighter.
• megafighter packs are standard equipment.

As such, I propose a new Hydran fighter: The St-TX.

Speed 21 (30)
17 hit points
2 fusion guns (3 charges each)
1 hellbore cannon (2 charges)
2 ph-G (FA)
DFR = 0

I'd rather this be a one-box fighter to make the Hydran X2 SSDs cleaner, but it's the size of a two-box fighter.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 11:57 pm: Edit

Make that 1 Ph-G FX and 1 Ph-G 360° and I'll be sold!

As to how many boxes, I think the old theme should remain. By giving them two boxs they will withstand damage better.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 12:00 am: Edit

I'd still rather see 1P2+1PG. 2PG+Fusions+HB+Speed30=too much.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 02:07 am: Edit

I'd tend to agree.

Even git it 1x P-1 since we're talking X2, but not 2x P-G.

Perhaps 1x P-7...

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 02:54 am: Edit

Ya, those guys are right, two Ph-G is a lot. A Ph-2 is good and Ph-1 after Y208 would be good too.

And I would do a Ph-GX either, that too powerful for a fighter since fighters come by the half to a full dozen.

Imagine, a X2 Cruiser with 9 of these. Gaaahhkk.

Also note that if the mega fighter package is standard that would add weapons or charges AND pod rails. One of these could have several Phaser pods. Scarry!

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 09:17 am: Edit

The megafighter rules say that if a fighter has heavy weapons, increase the number of charges. If the fighter has phasers only, add a ph-3.

The St-T from J2 (no X, this is GW tech) has:

Speed 15
16 damage points
2x fusion
1x hellbore
EW pod
ph-G FA
ph-G RX
2 chaff pods.
Y179 year in service.
DFR 0

Perhaps it's the overlapping ph-G arcs of my proposed fighter that's scaring people?

It has the drawback of not being able to fit in the standard Hydran launch tubes of the day. This can be fixed in a totally redesigned ship.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 02:10 pm: Edit

I think it's 2x P-Gs x 6-9 fighters per hydran ship that's scaring us.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 03:06 pm: Edit

Overlapping arcs is a significant part of the problem. A P2-FA, PG-RX, 2Fus, 1HB I could be comfortable with from a play balance perspective. As John says having a large number of these headed your direction is scary. If we up the weapons too much we will have to downgrade the number a ship can carry.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 03:08 pm: Edit

I'm unsure about making the double space mega fighter the common fighter for X2. It has the advantage of being easier to fly then double the number of single space fighters and far easier than PFs.

What would an X2 single space mega-fighter look like for the Hydrans?

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 07:20 pm: Edit

The single spaced fighters, without the megafighter packs:
Note the St-Y is an extrapolation to X2, not a proposal:

FighterSt-2St-XSt-Y
Speed152024
Phasers1 ph-G FA 1 ph-2 + 1 ph-G FA 1 ph-1 + 1 ph-G or 2xph-G FA
Damage101214
Fusion2 FA (3/10) 2 FA (improved range 5/12)2 FA (7/14)
YearY170Y182Y205
Pods1 chaff 2 chaff + 1 EW 3 chaff + 1 EW
BPV101418

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 08:42 pm: Edit

How about a St-X2 like:

Speed: 30
Phasers: 1P2-FA, 1PG-FX
Damage: 14
Fusions: 2 Fusions, 4 charges, 5/12 range
Hellbores: 1 Hellbore, 1 charge, 10 range
BPV: 22
Mega-fighter module built in

Basically a ST-XM with a single shot HB replacing the additional P3 from the mega module.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 08:54 pm: Edit

Tos,

Wouldn't the meagfighter module add a second HB charge and another set of fusion charges?

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