Since everyone uses Phasers I'd say some "radical" improvement to them is the ticket.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 09:07 pm: Edit

I can go with option 3 also.

My take would be that X1 represents the "easy stuff" scraped off the top of the wealth of technological research that occurred during the general war, and that the really new stuff simply couldn't be produced in bulk for or wasn't quite ready in Y180 and then was back-burnered until after the Andro War. X1 can as much be thought of as the zenith of classic SFB technology that has been in development since the start of EY.

X2 would then be the true next generation of stuff.

It could represent as profound a break from the phaser/warp-driven era as warp/phaser was from laser/impulse-driven sublight era.

We could design a new game using the SFB engine.

The question is: do we really want to?

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 09:09 pm: Edit

The P5 seems to be a new weapon everyone uses.

The Treaty of Washington is referenced in the timeline topic:
http://www.starfleetgames.com/discus/messages/23/3397.html?1046627111

Here is the historical link:
http://web.bryant.edu/~history/h364proj/fall_00/trimborn/washington.htm

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 09:39 pm: Edit

Option 3 works for me, as well.

Brodie, I think we are partially in line with P6. We have a few new things, that's true. But we haven't touched on quite alot of what Steve mentions. While I think the P5 is new in the sense that it's a new phaser, it isn't new as in "unknown". I get the feeling that may be more what he has in mind. I think we have plenty of room to play with new ideas, and should, given that's what he seems to want.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:11 pm: Edit

Agreed.

But I wouldn't want people to feel their investment in the conservative X2 we've been developing is wasted either.

I think the best X2 we can have should cover the full-spectrum of ideas.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:13 pm: Edit

Absolutely. I very much agree that the conservative approach should continue, and that the new and different should be developed, as well. There may even be crossovers. To be honest, though, I'm totally lost as to what a new generic weapon could be; haven't any clue.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:17 pm: Edit

Dream.

For example, something that just ocurred to me:

A pinpoint disruptor.

Does 2 points of damage to both the facing shield and the ship. Reinforcement, shield strength be damned.

Perhaps there's a snappy X2 shield that blocks it or something.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:59 pm: Edit

John, you mean like a ship mounted SwordFish weapon? (Or is that the spearfish? I get the two names mixed up.)

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 11:33 pm: Edit

Moved by author.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 11:37 pm: Edit

Three X2 ideas:

SYSTEMS: A new line on the EAF where energy is allocated for various low power systems. These could include a simple ASIF and the TLD (see below). Basic cost is 2 points of any power. Additional power to the ASIF would be placed after a slash (like 2 / 2). This is basically an additional house keeping line.
====================================
Tractor Landing Device (TLD): Like the Light Landing Device (Meatball) on today’s Aircraft Carriers this assists shuttles and fighters in landing on ships with a small Integrated Landing Tractor Beam (ILTB). Each shuttle box on an X2 ship is equipped with one TLD. A pair of boxes for Heavy Fighters has one TLD each, though only one is needed to land a Heavy Fighter. The other is a back up as Heavy Fighters are expensive. The ILTB is smaller than a Drogue Tether and does not operate like a regular tractor beam. One cannot be used to hold anything but is only used to guide shuttle into the bay, thus freeing up main line tractor beams. The TLD can be used to prevent a shuttle/fighter from landing. The actual range of the ILTB is about 1000 KM.

OPERATION OF A TLD: Any shuttle that wants to land on a permissive ship with power allocated to SYSTEMS that is in the same hex moving with in 10 movement points or twice the speed of the shuttle (which ever is less) simply states it intention to use the TLD and on the next impulse that shuttle is considered landed. Deck crew operations on that shuttle may begin immediately.

PREVENTION OF LANDING: Any ship equipped with a TLD may use one (or more) to prevent the landing of a shuttle/fighter. The ILTB does not hold the shuttle in anyway but the shuttle cannot land in the shuttle bay from which the ILTB emits from.

USAGE: Each TLB (one per shuttle box) may be used once per turn and not with in 8 impulses.

Drogue Bays: do not have TLB’s.


================================
Oblique Cruising Mode (OCM): X2 ships have their Reaction Control Systems ties to their Impulse Drives to increase maneuverability. One of the benefits of this is OCM. One point of Impulse power is allocated to power OCM. OCM may be started and / or stopped once per turn. At no time can OCM be resumed in a turn. (I.e. if continued from a previous turn and stopped it cannot be started again.)

The Maneuver: A ship in Oblique Cruising Mode is essentially side slipping every hex. An OCM maneuver can only be in one direction and cannot turn or accumulate movement points towards it turn mode. If the ship performs a HET (successful or not) the OCM is immediately stopped.

An OCM maneuver may be used from 1 to 32 impulses. Both starting and stopping the maneuver must be announced. Once stopped (announced after movement) normal maneuvering resumes on the next impulse.


=======================
OK, that’s it. Comments?

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 11:51 am: Edit

John, I think we see pretty much eye to eye on what X1 and X2 are.

Mike, I understand the implication of the "new weapon" clause but at the same time would this new weapon maintain the flavor and style of SFB? The Phaser is the universal weapon of SFB so I'm arguing for a dramatic new method for it vice a new weapon.

Sorry Tos, I've got to say no to the 2NTW (not that I actually have any "pull"). I can't see the Klingons or Romulans (or for that matter cats) agreeing to that treaty. Granted this is a fictional product so we can make them do anything we want, but we are trying to maintain some consistency and so I have to say no for the above reasons.

Loren the OCM basically uses Impulse Movement Power to deflect Warp Movement Power into an oblique scheme? Interesting. I'd recommend 1 Impulse point per 8 or 16 impulses (pick one) of OCM.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:05 pm: Edit

I thought about that but I figured this.

A) One Impulse power moves a ship one hex over a full turn. It's effect thus can last a full turn.
B) There is a heavy restriction on the OCM in that you cannot turn or build points towards turn mode.
C) Its a "Use as long as you want...once per turn" maneuver.

With restriction B you would never use this long in close proximity as the enemy knows much about where your ship will be moving over the next several impulses. Once you drop OCM you must move forward to start satisfying your turn mode. That makes you very vulnerable to T-Bombs and seeking weapons planning.

However, this is a very good maneuver for the long approach as it keeps your shield facing the enemy with a better oblique path the the side slip alone.

OCM costs add up to: One impulse power and near zero maneuverability (aside from the OCM itself).

If you want to use it all the way into battle, go ahead, but you takes your chances when you get close.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:07 pm: Edit

Oh I see now. Interesting idea.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:28 pm: Edit

An alternative-but similar is dual-vector warp where a ship is moving both forward and has a secondary vector to the right or left.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:31 pm: Edit

What about some of the SSJ stuff? Warp Gyroscope, Positron Flywheels, etc? Maybe they can be real for X2?

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Just say no to the positron flywheel...unless SSJ managed to clean it up somehow.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 06:42 pm: Edit

I mentioned allowing multiple side slips at 1 movement cost worth of reserve warp but it got shot down. Somehow now it seems less silly.

Normal: SS, FWD, SS, FWD, SS
X2: SS, SS (+1 MC), SS (+1 MC)

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 08:19 pm: Edit

In this proposal I wanted to have a new use for impulse. Also, I figure the restrictions make it not blow apart normal movement dynamics. I really didn't want something that would be used all the time. It should be physically hard for the ship to fly skewed like that so it must fly straight skewed. Hence, no turning. I figured that warp could skew the ship, it just makes the ship go fast. All turning and maneuvering is done by the RCS and impulse except in the extreme case of the HET; which is probably both. With the strain that an HET puts on a ship, I think that using warp to turn the ship is an extreme way to use the engines. Indeed, use it too much and you burst the warp bubble and send your ship spinning and tumbling through space (in the worst case).

So, the OCM uses the Impulse RCS to hold the ship in a 60° skew to the direction of travel. This takes power and restricts movement. I suppose, now, that the cost could also include 1 MC worth of warp to make up for the imbalance of the physical positioning of the engine nacceles to the direction of travel.

So the cost would be 1 impulse + 1 x MC. A cruiser would spend 2 points for 1 to 32 impulses OCM. A XFF would spend 1.5. A DN would spend 2.5. Etc, etc.

I like that, consider the proposal revised to that.

Tos, do you know the adress of your first proposal? (date, time, where) I'd like to read it. I believe I remember it and may have been the inspiration for my proposal in the back of my mind. If this is the case I would like to share credit. (That is if I haven't plagerized the idea compleatly, in which case I'll withdraw mine.)

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 09:36 pm: Edit

There has been quite a bit of additive work done on all X2 proposals, its not about credit for me. I just want to make sure we build an X2 that I'd be willing to play.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 01:38 am: Edit

---

Quote:

Sorry Tos, I've got to say no to the 2NTW (not that I actually have any "pull"). I can't see the Klingons or Romulans (or for that matter cats) agreeing to that treaty.

---

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 12:18 pm: Edit

I'll go with MJC on this one. A treaty would work...for a while.

Even the Kzintis and Lyrans would agree to a ceasefire today if it meant they'd be positioned to really get their claws into each other in five years.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 12:25 pm: Edit

Yup. Time to breath! Everyone needs it, some more than others. For the Colition it means being saved from total defeat.

The truth is that the ISC saved the Colition from losing the GW and the Andromedans saved then again (or rather OpUnity) from the ISC. The result of those two invasions is that they remain intact. To rise again.

By Jay K Gustafson (Jay) on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 02:33 pm: Edit

I was wondering what kind of phaser would a X2 Starbase get?

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 03:11 pm: Edit

We talked about a P-8, which is basically a P-4 jumped up by 50%...quite a punch at close range.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 04:42 pm: Edit

I've been working on several possibilities.

A way to combine Ph-4 beems into one shot for greater effectiveness on a new chart.

or

A Hit or Miss mode. Roll a die and if 1-3 it hits (EW shifts count) for the maximum damage for that range. If it misses, in does none. Only units with Positional Stabilizers can make this mode practical so ships don't get this option. Narrow salvoes are allowed.

or

(still working on these)