Archive through October 03, 2003
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board:
New Rules:
Orbital Defense Platforms:
Archive through October 03, 2003
Richard Wells:
Several things.
There is stealth and there is combat. A single PF operating at the limits of its life support to creep into position is a different thing than a trio or more of Combat Capable PFs storming in.
Detection is more certain in the latter case, less certain in the former.
As to landing before the phaser-4 can fire. Surely you jest. See (P2.41).
Turn #1 you move next to planet with your single PF. The Ground Defenses caught off guard can take no action.
Turn #2 you enter the planet's hex to begin descending. The Ground Defenses warm their phaser capacitors.
Turn #3 you are still in the atmosphere (you do not land until the end of the turn). The Ground Defenses put a phaser-4 shot through your PF.
This is not to mention being swarmed by the fighter squadron(s) defending the planet, and being attacked by the DefSats constantly.
Combat PFs simply do not have the "space keeping" ability to creep up. The only reason a G1G can is that its lifesupport (for which it sacrificed weapons) can sustain the small number of people longer than a combat PF's can.
SPP-
I do not have my rule books with me.
Does the G1G PF have the same limited range (as measured in F&E hexes) as "normal" PF's?
Just curious if it could have come from an existing (and known!) klingon base or if it was based off a tender...?
Just thought of another question...
Which hex sides were exposed to the G1G approach?
IIRC there were two hex sides of the planet that had a lower defense presence (meaning no perm. bases and plans for the manuver part of the Btn to operate there in case of enemy attack)...did the G1G deploy into the wilderness area?
Richard Wells:
I think I in essence already answered that while you were posting it. And I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what happened. The PF never landed, it circled the planet at very edge of its atmospheric envelope 'dropping things' from its passenger hatch before accelerating away. At this point, it is possible that one of the 'things' it dropped was a commando team using the starfleet battles equivalent of HALO, but in order to avoid having the team be instantly found as the only source tracked down from space to the planet's surface, the PF also dropped a couple of thousand "decoys", which mimic the passage of a HALO drop, then disintegrate. So planetary headquarters is getting thousands of "hits" on its data screen for where a command team might have landed, and of course lacks the manpower to search all of them immediately, so must prioritize some (the ones regarded as greatest risk), develop a cordon and search for others, and basically hope they get lucky (which obviously does happen). Any such commando team actually dropped has to depend on luck and their own skill to avoid being picked up right away, and fade into the woodwork. They might spend a month or more maneuvering across the planet's surface to their objective, all the while doing all they can to minimize their "footprint" on the planet.
And even with advanced technology, it is a big planet and there are not a lot of "boots on the ground" to do the searching and the object of the search has their own technology to avoid being found.
AND, OF COURSE, THERE IS THE QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT THERE ACTUALLY WAS A COMMANDO TEAM DROPPED. The whole thing could simply be a ploy to tie down resources.
Jeff Wile:
In re question #1, a G1G in normal mode has the operational characteristics of a G1. It trades weapons capability for increased life support capability to carry what amounts to (in SFB) a company of troops (ten boarding parties, or 50 people) in addition to its normal crew (25 to 34 people).
A G1G operating to insert a commando team will spend considerable time "creeping", and the major limit on this is life support, but now you have a life support system designed to keep 75-84 people going that is working to keep just 30-39 people going. This greatly extends the boat's time.
The boat got into position by any of several means. It may have been towed by another PF (to conserve its own fuel) into range to approach the system on its own. It might have been launched by a casual PFT (a raider that crossed the front on some other mission). It might have visited a hidden facility not yet uncovered by the Federation in its counter-offensive. It might even have been refueled by an Orion hired for the purpose at a way point.
But being very small and operating stealthily, it is a lot harder to spot than say a war cruiser, or even a Frigate.
The up shot is that you really, really, really, do not know where it came from, or where it went.
In regards your second question.
If the planet was in hex 0328, the PF entered hex 0327D, then sideslipped into 0427D, then moved to 0428D, then turned into 0329E, then sideslipped into 0228E. With orbital dynamics being what they are, decoys would have landed not just in the five planetary hexsides that the PF actually crossed over, but would have landed in the sixth hex side as well.
In short, you are getting reports from the DefSats of landings all over the planet.
Colonel Knight looked up in time to see the flare of the boats transition to high warp die from the screen.
"Colonel Knight?" Knight turned to see Lieutenant Palmer. "Sir, the Planetary Governor is on the communications system. He wants to know what the heck is going on, his daughter and wife are both very distraught about thunder."
==================
"Tell the Governor I'll be with him in thirty seconds." Knight said raising his finger to accentuate the point. "Ops, reduce alert status to Condition Yellow. Load all fighters with GA-Pods and leave whatever drones are already loaded but balance the loads if nessasary. Launch shuttles and begin S&D missions imediatly. We are likely not looking for Klingon bio signs but any number of likely suspects. Recall the Fighter Patrol into orbit and maintain readiness."
Col. Knight moved to his the Command Chair and drew a deep breath. "Major Wile," he said to his exec "Do me a favor and get that Duty Officer back on training and see if you can't find out how to get him knowing the difference between a Cruiser and a Gunboats energy signature. If it's not his fault, then get a crew on a Def Sat software update when things cool down."
"Aye, sir."
"Alright, I talk to the Governor now." Knight recieved a nod from Communications and he punched a button on the chair arm to activate the channel. "Governor, we have stood down to yellow alert, you can breath easy for the moment."
The Governor began slowly raising his voice with each word "All right then...what the hell is going on? What was that in the sky? Why haven't you reported yet? I've got my whole family in the basement shaking their boots off. Well...?"
Knights finger huvored over the comm button. I though for a moment he could blame it on a twitch of the wrist but no..."Klingons Governor." He though that might shut him up for a moment to explain. It did.
"The Klingon managed to sneak a single Gunboat in range to possibly drop an infiltration team planet side. There has been no attack yet and no casualties."
"What!??" The Governors volume caused the channel to crackel with static. "There's Klingons on my planet!?"
"Not likely, Governor." Col. Knight had just entered a state of calm. "This could be just a decoy but if it isn't they probably are not Klingons but spies working for the Klingons. Probably affiliated with the local Cartel. We are looking into all possabilities. I suggest you get all your Police Chiefs in touch with PDU Command to organize a search for spies."
"What if they come back, are we ready for an attack. I'm going to contact Star Fleet..."
Col. Knight sat up streight "Governor, that would be premature. I'll be contacting Star Fleet soon with my report. If you could formulate a request to bring our Def Sat complement to full status I would like to add that to my report, but please allow me to do my job. I'm taking good care of your planet, sir."
"Fine then, when do you want it?" the Governor was more calm now that he had something to do.
"I'll be sending a prelem report in one hour but my Status report is due tomarrow. I'd like to send your request, with mine, then. Colonel Knight out." Knight pressed the comm. button a little extra hard and a little extra long.
"Status report, are the Fighters in my sky yet?"
======================
SPP: I have a list of Officers but I did not record who was who specifically. Particualrly those officers at the GMG.
Colonel Knight, if you want them launched, they are launched. Right now there is not really anything happening that you guys need me specifically for (I will be monitoring and will inject anything I think necessary). And none of this means that a real Klingon Attack is going to happen this weekend, or next weekend, or next month. Its just to get the juices going and to put some of you on your toes thinking about things that must be done.
Things that are not done will come back to haunt you (said with an evil glint).
Deleted by me.
429th [Last known listing]
Lt Col L Knight, CO
Sgt Mjr G Plana, CSM
Staff
Maj R Wells, XO
Maj J Wile, S3
Cpt J Howell, S2
Cpt J Cummins, S1
Cpt S Tenhoff, S4
Lt A Palmer, Signals
Firing Battery
Cpt P Stovell, Cmd
Lt D Lampert (A)
Lt G Conn (B)
Lt S Frazier (C)
INFANTRY
Maneuver Company
Cpt A Chobot, Cmd
1st Platoon: Lt J Davies
2nd Platoon: Lt E Grondin
3rd Platoon: Lt M Raper
GCV Platoon: Lt L LeBlanc
GAS Platoon: Lt J Trauger
GenDefense Company
CPT M C Grafton, Cmd
SWAES
GWS1 - Lt G Getgen
GWS2 - Lt J Kasper
Fighter Squdron
Maj A harding, Cmd
Cpt R Cole, XO
FGB1 - Lt C Fant
FGB2 - Lt D G Knipfer
Memo:
to Col. Knight:
from: Major Wile.
Re:Training Schedules.
I will amend the schedules per your orders. Question, do you want a formal inquiry, a administrative review, or my own assessment?
The differences are:
1. a formal inquiry could result charges.
2. an administrative review could be handled without referring charges.
3. would allow maximum lattitude concerning whatever is found.
FWIW, my recommendation is #3.
Some selected statements from the threat assesment working papers.
.
.
.
Concerning possible Klingon infiltrators:
It would appear that there are only a few possibilities:
1. the flyby was a decoy mission. an attempt to confuse and mislead the 429th into wasting effort.
2. There was already a covert team of Klingons on the planet, and the flyby was intended to resupply and deliver new orders.
3. There was no Klingon prescence on planet, but the G1G actually deployed a covert team on planet with some intent that has not yet been revealed.
4. The G1G was engaged in a "close reconaisance" of planet.
Implications:the "close reconaisance" revealed to the Klingons that the 429th is not at full strength. did not have full complement of Defense satilites. missing on fighter hanger base, and 1/2 of the normal fighter strength that should have been deployed to this planet.
It should be recommended that the factors(listed above) be included in the threat assessment:
On a separate subject, would the verification of possible landing sites be aided if we committed the fighter wing and all 7 admin shuttles to visually ID each site on a flyby mission to look for signs of bio signs?
checking 1,000's of possible landing sites just by transporting BP's to each LS is going to take time, sending 12 fighters + 7 adminshuttles would go somewhat faster.
Major Wile: Attend to the Duty Officer with in our own ranks. After all, I would rather find out the ship is smaller than bigger. Just get him on some extra hours training for better threat assessment.
All Staff:
We will assume that an infiltration team of some sort has landed. There is certainly more evidence for that than ever so we will conduct an exhaustive search. We will put Security Plan Beta Zorro into action. (this is a predetermined plan for searching for infiltrators and changing security protocols.) I want an extra operator at the GWS's monitoring for possible enemy transitions. However, we must keep vigilance in maintaining a watch for approaching enemies. As Major Wile points out, the G1G certainly took scans of the planet and we need to do a little reorganizing.
If our searches for the Infiltrators turn out fruitless we will turn the matter over to the local Security to handle.
Base Patrols will be increased 50% until further orders. Once per day I want a shuttle patrol on a random schedule to scan the area at every base for 50Km radius.
I will be putting in a request for additional Def Sats. If we had a full complement this might not have happened.
General threat level is now Orange until further notice. (Threat colors modeled on our current day Terrorism alerts).
I want a third and fourth Shuttle Field cleared. We will occasionally move field supplies between the two. I don't want the information the G1G has to be valid starting this week. And I don't want the possible infiltrators reports to be valid long either.
Once per week we will move the ground defenses around the bases.
Drill schedule will rotate but not increase. There is enough extra work for the troops above.
Fighter Patrols will no longer extend beyond 150,000 Km or until further notice. Other wise Patrol schedules will be adjusted weekly.
That’s all for now, I'm open to concerns and suggestions.
SPP: My mistake. I misread your piece and thought you were using a variant on ED into the atmosphere manuever which is the fastest way down.
Wouldn't the crucial issue be tracking civillian craft that might intersect with possible landed hostiles? If the prospective saboteurs wind up many months of walking from the nearest facility, they should not pose much of a threat.
Why is the fighter cover being diverted at all? Why have ground attack pods to deal with the limited number of possible landing parties when these landing parties are probably commandoes designed to raid one specific target at the same time of a general attack on the planet?
The fighter cover needs to be ready for ship to ship combat - GAS shuttles (if we have any) and admins should be fine for this job.
After all, in the Resistance we coordinated with the Federation assault to disrupt Klingon defenses - don't be a sucker and get your binkies in a bun over a few landing parties.
We can handle those ourselves, with the help of some Fed assets.
When is the next scheduled stop of the local Police Squadron?
Could we have the local Police Flagship stop by in the next month, do some high-powered sensor scans with it's special sensor to see if it can detect anything?
Marc B.
The Fighters are launching at this moment to give the maximum coverage and ability to engage during the hours after the initial drop. When the first day of searches are over and nothing is found they will return to regular duty. I don't expect an attack at the moment (or today) but the fighters do have two turns of drones and since they are in the air, are ready to attack.
In the hours after the drop we are at Yellow alert but at high security alert. The fighters and shuttle are in the air conducting S&D. Weapons are Primed and ready for space attack and the GWB's are active. If anything enters in the next few hours we WILL know about it.
Scott: We have Special Sensors on the GWS and shuttles doing low observation and fighters on Space patrol. The Pol-F could do any more than we can. That said, they do stop by and I'm sure there will be a visit regarding this situation soon (a day or two). I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't from the Sector Commander himself.
Colonel Knight:
Captain Tenhoff is actually quite correct. Having a ship actively scan would be a good thing. Remember, the sensors of your Space Warning and Electronic Support Company are limited in that they can only see as far as they can. A ship can travel outside the system and investigate sightings and develop other information.
However, are there not some things you should be reminding Captain Tenhoff to take care of? Captain Tenhoff does have some responsibilities that should be addressed.
Pardon me if I'm intruding on a private thread. I've been following the discussion here for awhile and had a couple of questions.
1. What effects would a commando team have on a garrison? I realize that this may have to be resolved with a "special scenario rule", but I was curious about the limits of a commando team's effectiveness. Blowing up a ground base would be unrealistic, but could they destroy a system box (in a manner similar to a hit and run raid) or sabotage a base's reactor (like how the warp engines of ships have been sabotaged in various scenarios)?
2. Would a Prime Team (or, in this case, a Dagger Team) have the necessary training be inserted using a G1G? If so, how effective would such a unit be in disrupting the garrison?
on a similar note...
Do combat engineers have special abilities in ground combat?
Col. Knight:
I think there are ships out there supporting the G1G, and I think his flotilla mates are with him.
I also think this is a precursor to a planetary raid, if not an occupation, that will take place within the next two weeks, probably the next few days. You don't go to the effort of getting a G1G behind enemy lines (with a support ship of whatever sort) just to drop commandoes to scout out a planet or commit sabotage unless you are going to hit the planet. We don't build ships in this system, or have much of strategic value, other than as a supply point. That means there isn't much to take a look at, and risking commandoes and a G1G (and its supporting logistics) is stupid.
Frankly, I think identifying potential key ground targets, such as the GWS, is paramount with regard to the landing. These can then be protected by my boys and some shuttles (is a GAS or two on hand?).
With regard to the system, I think fighter patrols further from the planet, not closer, should be carried out, but that's what you Feds do and its not my bailywick. If it were, I would mount sensor pods and some probe drones on a couple of your fighters and get them to scout the system. Also, I'd spend some time checking out celestial objects and terrain within 3 warp-days of our system. But like I said, it's not my bailywick.
With that said, I'm not sure what assets we have. Can I get a report from Majors Wile or Wells?
I also suggest that I get into one of those shuttles and help with topography and basing of recon parties.
"What could a commando team do".
Sabotage anything for when the real battle happens, thus delaying the planet from using/controling the Defense Sat's for a turn, or the GWS's Special Sensor, etc.
It might not be a 'destroyed' box, but an inconvience.
Raymond Ford: If there is a "ADD A MESSAGE" box at the bottom of the window it's not private. Welcome to the discussion.
SPP: Yes, I have more stuff to do. I was just checking in quick like as there gets to be too much to read at once, very quickly, if you know what I mean.
Regarding scans, yes that is certainly true. I thought his context was in reguards to finding possible Infitrators. As Commander, I should have asked if that was indeed his meaning. Thanks.
Please note everyone, I don't have any real life Military Command Training. As such, I'll do my best to think of everything. This is quite a bit different than playing ships on a map. I'm confident, though, that I wont suck. 
Raymond Ford:
Depends on the mission.
They could be here for simple intelligence gathering. Find out if the planet can be attacked and taken.
They might be here to asassinate someone key (say Colonel Knight, or the Governor).
They might be here to gain a piece of technology or some other hard data.
They might be here to train an indigenous guerrilla force.
They potentially DO have the ability to destroy a small ground base, but would have to do so under special scenario rules. They would attack it at a time of their choosing, and could invoke the (D18.0) surprise rules in such case, meaning only one of the two boarding parties would nominally be available to defend, and they would have some modifier in their favor. Check the history of such attacks by small bands. Such as the St Nazaire/Normandie Docks raid. Once in the base they would knock it out. Note such an attack would be a "suicide mission" unless an outside force were coming to relieve them as the attack would reveal a specific location that they simply could not flee from in time before the defenders could "flood the zone" with hunters. So it is highly unlikely at this juncture, but one of those things Colonel Knight has to take into account. The problem is that Colonel Knight cannot maintain his battalion on continuous high alert for such an attack (even knowing such an attack would probably mean that an outside attack is coming) because it would exhaust his troops (which could be simulated by requiring his battalion to use the "poor crew" rules).
Exhaustion puts a limit on how long Colonel Knight can afford to have his battalion's assets tied up hunting for an inserted team that simply may not even be there.
There are a number of other possible mission profiles, and various things that they might shift to as an opportunity presents itself. HOWEVER, in SFB game terms such a team would simply be a "special scenario rule", in GURPS they are an adventure with all sorts of possibilities that then affect a larger scenario depending on their successful accomplishment.
As to a Prime Team, that would always be my biggest worry (i.e., yes, a Prime Team could be inserted this way).
Thanks for the quick responses. It sounds like Colonel Knight has a problem brewing out there in the wilds. Of course, this assumes that the G1G actually dropped a commando team or Prime Team. Steve could just be pulling everybody's leg.
Lt Col Baluda:
The assets list is spread thru the archives, I am taking the liberty to send you a copy of the initial briefing from Col Knight (note, recently the name of the planet changed from the code name to its actual name, hope it is not too confusing!)
Battalion Conference Room aboard the Federation Tug NCC-3808 Galilei.
Major Wells, please call the meeting to order… Thank you.
The Galilei will be orbiting Cassandra VI in 36 hours. Currently the 251st Construction Battalion is making preparations to bring all six Ground Defense Systems on line and have requested my final plans for placement of our bases. I will send my plans as soon as I hear any last minute comments and concerns from my staff.
The six GDSs I have code named Annapolis (A), Biloxi (B), Chico (C), Dallas (D), Encino (E), and Fargo (F). We have three drone armed DefSats code named Bellos (B), Dante (D), and Franco (F).
My plans for deployment are:
GDS Annapolis (A): GMG (Headquarters), GBDP (Battery-1), GWS, and FGB-S-1 (Banshee flight).
GDS Chico (C): GBDP (Battery-2).
GDS Dallas (D): GWS, FGB-S-2 (Ghost flight).
GDS Encino (E): GBDP (Battery-2).
Once we have established the base I will request various extra supplies from Star Fleet to fortify our position.
Cassandra VI is a dry but pleasant planet. Nearly three quarters desert it has a mild climate given its distance from Cassandra Prime. There are over three and one half million colonists on Cassandra. We are there to defend their lives and Star Fleet interests. Any attempt to gain a base on Cassandra IV by the enemy must be denied. Though we are not on the front line there is some strategic importance to this system and we may well end up being on the front as a result however remote.
Please record your comments and concerns by 2300 hours tomorrow. I will then send the 251st my deployment list.
Thank you…dismissed.
I will look for the other listings, but I think we have F16M's for the fighter group. I am not certain we received the final equipment list from Col Knight.