Archive through November 25, 2003
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board:
The "X" Files:
OLD X2 FOLDER:
The Generic X2 Hull:
Archive through November 25, 2003
Loren, regarding your last post above:
I think I see what you mean and my take on it is that you're saying the X2-CC will likely be based on the hull size of the GW-BCH, but its role will be that of a CC. In other words it's not limited to wartime roles and doesn't need lots of firepower.
Pretty much, but it will have lots of fire power. Not in terms of X2 but compaired to the GW-BCH having Ph-5s and big Photons it does. Simply converting each Ph-1 and Photon on the BCH to X2 weapons certainly equates to "Lots of fire power."
Will it have more in the furture? Probably. The hull should be designed to handel expantion to meet future possible needs. A refitted, overgunned XCC would be an XBCH. But module X2 would not include such a beast. That would be for another module (i.e. Xork Invasion).
I really don't comprehend the idea of build a battlewagon *whatever label you put on it* in a period of relative peace and rebuilding.
This would strike me as a time to start building pre-GW type units again. To explore and to fight off pirates that got fat off the war. These will not be big gun toters, but they should have more rounded abilites. Think pre-GW Fed CA/DD.
Crusiers, the strong arm and flag waivers. Workhorses of patrol and the cavalry. I would say these would be about the equvilant of a GW CC, maybe a CCH.
Command Crusiers, the peacetime flag and "goodwill" ships. About the size of a CCH or a BCH, and about the firepower of a GW CCH-BCH.
Destroyers, workhorses of convoy duty and backup explorers. Say about the size and streangth of between a GW CL and CW.
Frigates.....I see the new Frigate to be about the size and streagnth of a GW DW, but cheaper and easier to maintain.
Christopher, about the only thing I see differently than your above post is with the X2 Frigates.
I think X2-FF should be slightly smaller than GW-FF and more combatant-oriented. They would be designed around a composite concept where the variants compensate for each other. They'd be built for fleet reconnaissance/screening and convoy escort.
The way I'm reading Loren's posts aren't really all that different from what you're posting. I think Loren's idea is that the main X2 cruiser is simply going to be built as big as GW-BCH and will be about as powerful (if not more so) thanks to the X2 tech.
The XCC would be a long mission cruiser. It might head up actual fleets but would serve on missions alone. This is really what makes it a cruiser rather than a DN in that it is intended to opperate alone. To spearhead mission and make first contact with lost worlds.
It must be able to handle ANYTHING.
That's why it so tough, and multi-roled (pleanty of shuttle, NWO and a couple cargo. It is intended to opperate "Out of Supply" longer than any ship previous.
Quote:I really don't comprehend the idea of build a battlewagon *whatever label you put on it* in a period of relative peace and rebuilding.
That's why you build a battlewaggon ( of sorts ):-
1) The independant terrirorys that were once on the outer edge of your territory will buy GW ships ( quite probably DWs but also BCHs depending on how much money is going around ) and the Galactic Powers may well want ships that can make the locals see reason without having to send an X1 Squadron...an XCA at 330 BPV will fight with a little bit of an edge against a BCJ & 2DWs (being able to mash DWs in a single hit at range) but will cost less ( particularly the wages of the crew although who knows what the ecconomics of future warships are ) and will certainly have a longer working life than the BCJ & DWs.
2) Your traditional enemies have real waships ( CXs ) so you need something to bust those if things turn bad of the next few years ( can anyone see over the horizon, really!?! ) and the old enemy trys a bit of argie-bargie to gain a few planets that ain't his...and you screwed if he's got X2s and you don't ( to some extent ).
3) Pirates have X1 cruisers ( and may soon build X2s ) and are picking up pretty good GW ships ( the one that were built trading working-life for firepower ) and may start Orionizing them soon ( Now what would the BPV be on an Orionized BCJ ) but even if they don't Orionize those ships, they can send small taskgroups where once they could send only single vessels because the galactic powers have been selling of those older and less workable GW ships.
4) There's no garrentteeing that an andro like enemy ( or worse ) will not turn up on your doorstep and the ability to make effective fire at longer range ( Ph-5s ) and the ablility to chase down that enemy ( X2 movement ) won't be needed to save your butt from the fire.
Just because it was a time of relative peace does not mean that it was a time of absolute peace nor that the varrious Admiralties believed that tomorrow wouldn't hold armageadon ( again ) for them.
Loren, no ship can handle everything.
I feel that the XCC is just an XCA with better C&C, few phasers and maybe some power or somethin special.
It is not an ubership. THey have never been uberships, why would they suddenly become uberships?
I think many races will, after they catch their breath, see the general war as an unfinnished business. The ISC screwed every thing up, in a way, though it's true many saw the intervention as a respit but only to a degree. Most probably flet they would regroup, defeat the ISC and get back to pounding each other. But the the Andromedans came.
After Op U there might be an uneasy peace and probably a cold war.
The US and USSR built massive war arsials during a time of realative world peace. Tech. advances progressed at a war time rate.
X2 developes during a time like this.
So ya, there is going to be fully battle capable units.
I would suggest that another GW be on the brink or even just started when the Xorks come. Trade Wars in between, of course.
I on the other hand think everyone will be tired of fighting. I do not see a cold war scenario, I see everyone keeping tabs on everyone else for a while, then probaly jsut keep the border forces up get back to the business of living. 30 years of constant warfare has got to shake up something.
Also, everyone will be broke. VERY broke after Operation Unity.
Where are they going to get the money for these Uberships?
Okay. Just for funsies, and since I had some free time today, I put together six different looking Fed XCA's. The basic abilities are pretty much the same (and definately tailored toward the kind of ship I would like to see, e.g., not a monster). They all have some common features like the still ambiguous any system box, and presumably some form of SIF or other protective system that we haven't yet defined. Anyway, here they are:
Federation XCA version 1 The traditional. Looks like a Fed, acts like a Fed. Nothing drastic about this one, other than using four point batteries. A bit better shields than the CX, a bit more power. Typical clunky Fed maneuverability.
Federation XCA version 2 The mono-hulled cruiser. Built along the lines of the war cruiser, but with more power and "oomph". Per a statement made in Module P6 by Steve, it has FX/RX phaser arcs. It has less batteries, but makes up for it by them holding five points. Same power as the version 1.
Federation XCA version 3 Gotta admit, I like this one. Very different. Good all around phaser coverage, lots of labs, same power as 1 & 2. Looks different, and is meant as a more general purpose cruiser with really good research capabilities...figure it has to do alot, since the fleet is smaller during the Trade Wars.
Federation XCA version 4 A bit more "pure" Fed. Less weapons than the others, more like the old CA. No funky arcs, "any" system boxes, or weird stuff.
Federation XCA version 5 Sort of combines some of the P6 info with a normal Fed hull. Good phaser coverage, a bit less pure warp power, but a double-powered AWR system.
Federation XCA version 6 The really far-out Fed, looks not a whit like what we've seen before. Maneuverable, stealthy, well armed and totally un-Fed like save its weapons array. Has all the weird bells and whistles put up so far.
Now, I don't really endorse any of these (though I have to admit a certain purile liking for number six). Oh, I like the basic abilities they have, and this power level is one I'm comfortable with...a bit better than X1, but not hugely so. See, I always saw X1 ships as made purely for combat. Even if they're a bit dated by the time X2 gets in the game, they're still darn good ships for what they do. I mean, look at the old Iowa battleships. Old, but bigger and tougher than most anything afloat today because they were made to fight and that's all. The ships I posted are technically incomplete, since we haven't decided yet on a solid photon proposal, or how and what ASIF's will do. But, I thought it might be fun to toss these around, along with all the stuff on John's page, and see what we like and what we don't.
Except for that crazy S-bridge thing I really like number 4. Add 2xP6s somehow and I am sold. You could give it the little tail that the Fed TC has ad put the Probe back there and slip the 2xP6s in the probe slot.
I too have found it odd that the SFU has one general war whilst the earth has had 2 world wars.
I wouldn't mind the tradewars degenerating into the second general war and then having to have the whole thing put on hold for dealing with the Xorks...if you don't learn from history, then you're condemned to relive it.
My two cents:
1) Very Fed-like. Going to do massive damage anywhere in FA, and even more on a centreline.
2) Maneuvers like a Fed, weapons arcs like a Frax. Meh. Looks neat, though.
3) High-tech, while retaining a Fed look and feel. I'm not sure if it's just the outline, but I like this one. The arcs on phasers 5 - 8 make for some interesting play. The sheer number of Ph-5s makes me think it's an XCC.
4) Traditional CA. I like the balance of this one, but I'd prefer to see something new over just swapping standard systems for their 2X equivalents. I think any other design should be tested against this one in combat to balance it properly.
5) A full-sized version of #2. They might make an interesting pair as XCA and XNCA.
6) This one's just cool. I'm tempted to snag this and use it in my campaign. For what, I'm not yet sure. Races are just coming out of the Early Years. But I'll think of something. 
All considered, my vote would be on #3. I just really like it.
#6 Black Manta is designing the 2X Fed ships
Curse you Aquaman.
I think Mike's onto something with #3.
I like a slightly altered silouette for X2. I like the concept in #3 but the spade-saucer always reminds me of Voyager so I was never fond of the fast-cruiser saucer, which this is reminiscenet of.
It may even be the appropriate saucer shape despite my personal dislike.
I'm torn between #1 and #5. How about this:
take #1 and use #5's Phasers, AWRs, and BTTYs, keep the rear hull Ph-6s
I like the 4 Warp in the saucer.
Brodie,
Something like this?
R2.?? Federation XCA version 7
A few changes were made to the aft hull to swap out for the AWR...eight AWR plus all that warp seemed a bit excessive. This is a more flexible ship.
I posted This Fed XCA to Vorlon's X2 page about 2 months ago.
I think most of these Fed XCA proposals are in the same neighborhood. 8-10 ph-5, 40-48 warp, 0-2 ph-6, and some arrangement of the hull boxes to add "style" to it.
While people are arguing over the differences, look at the similarities, and you can see that we're all not that far off. Of course, we could all be unanimously wrong.
You want different, take a look at my Fed XCA.
http://www.vorlonagent.com/sfb/x2/vorlonagent/Fed-XCA.gif
Just to toss in a note of disharmony.
And mine:
http://www.vorlonagent.com/sfb/x2/toscrawford/XCM2.gif
Close Mike, but I was thinking with #5's phaser set-up and ph-6s in the aft hull.
I like version 7, but it needs 2 P5s in the rear. Other than missing 2 of those, I think that is the perfect X2 Crusier.
So, Chris wants this one:
R2.?? Federation XCA version 8
Brodie, I'll fix that one up later today and post it as number 9.
I don't think he like the Special Bridge thingies.
I have to agree with Cfant. Everyone will be broke and will be re-building their economies. If X2 is going to take place 8-12 years after Operation Unity when there is money to spend this would make sense. I believe until that time you will not see any new hulls or the expenditures for the R&D needed to make any type of "leaps & bounds" in technology.
Ken
By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 09:55 pm: Edit
>>I on the other hand think everyone will be tired of fighting.
>>Also, everyone will be broke. VERY broke after Operation Unity.
