What if the X2 Stinger had these ratings for it's fusions 2FA(improved range 5/12/3OL)?

In other words same ranges as the ST-X but the ability to use two charges to OL one Fusion Beam out to R3.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 11:08 pm: Edit

What if the 3 charges could upgrade the strength, not just the range:

1 charge: standard shot, range 5
2 charges: standard shot, range 12 OR overload shot range 5
3 charges: standard shot, range 24 OR overload shot range 8 OR suicide overload range 5?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 12:25 am: Edit

That sounds good, but...

since these are fighters what sort of damage would a suiside OL do. I think it would be easier to just eliminate the SSOL.

also, I think some of the range limitation is due to the fighters targeting systems. Take the Ph-1 idea for this X2 fighter. I think it should have a R15 max.

May I suggest this alternative:

Charge	Result	Range
1	Standard Shot	5
2	Standard Shot R12
3	Overload Shot	R8

That's a high cost for an OL sure, but when the oppertunity arises to use it, it can be very effective considering it will come from a fighter that will also have a Ph-2 or Ph1 and a Hellbore! The R8 damage output from a squadron of these fighters will be pretty big. They should have to go reload after that sort of offensive blast.

Unlike before, a squadron can engage with heavy weapons at maximum OL range under several types of cover (Small target mods and EW from several sources). After affecting a good hit they can then move in for a potentially killing blow with Ph-Gs.

All in all I think SS-OL is too much and they should have to pay with all their charges to get a good OL shot.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 12:34 am: Edit

Agreed, no suicide overload.

Having overloads at all is somewhat questionable but suicides would be too good.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 11:54 am: Edit

I think there would be an uproar about overloads. Not to say it is terribly unbalancing but I don't think most would accept overload anything on fighters.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 02:32 pm: Edit

St-X:
1P2-FA, 1PG-FA, 2Fus (4 charges), 1 EW
The Megafighter would add (J16.242) 2 fusion charges and 2 damage points.

A St-H:
1PG-FA, 1HB
The Megafighter would add a second Hellbore charge.

I'm looking for a fighter that retains all of the effectiveness of the St-X while gaining that of the St-H. I'm also looking for an X2 fighter that makes the Mega-fighter add-on obsolete. I don't want something over the top.

That's how I cam up with:
Speed: 30
Phasers: 1P2-FA, 1PG-FX (RX?)
Damage: 14
Fusions: 2 Fusions, 4 charges, 5/12 range
Hellbores: 1 Hellbore, 1 charge, 10 range
BPV: 22

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 10:04 pm: Edit

I just threw it out there. But on second thought, I agree, no overloads from fighters.

No hydran fighter published has more than 2 charges for the fusions. The megafighter module raises this to 3 charges per fusion.

A St-XM would have:
Speed 30 (cannot be deathdragged)
ph-2 FA, ph-G FA
14 damage
1 EW pod, 2 chaff pods, room for 2 more pods*
2 fusions, 3 charges, 5/12
No hellbores
BPV 21

* the two extra pods do not slow the fighter down (J16.245), and can be EW pods or phaser pods (J11.33)

If this becomes the X2 Hydran fighter, then there's no need to mention megafighters at all, except to say that you can't add on a megafighter module to this particular fighter. But it's still X1 tech.

Now swapping the two phaser pods for a hellbore and still keeping it single space... that's X2 tech.

Which is identical to Tos's proposal, except remove one of the fusion charges (leaving 3), adding a second hellbore charge (it's a megafighter), and changing the phaser arcs to FA for both phasers.

Once we have the fighter designed, whether or not its based on the megafighter rules, just add in a rule, "X2 fighters cannot mount megafighter packs", which is another way of saying it's already built in.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 10:27 pm: Edit

How about this:

Stinger-2X

Speed 30
Damage: 17
phasers: 1xph-1 FA, 1xph-G FX
Pods: 2 chaff, 1 EW, no room for any additional pods.
Fusions: 2x fusions, 3 charges, 3/10 range
Hellbores: 1x hellbore, 2 charges, range 15
DFR 0
Cannot receive the megafighter pack.
Single space fighter, cannot use non-X2 launch tubes (due to it being larger than a St-2)

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 10:27 pm: Edit

But would a WBP on an X2 fighter become speed 40?

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 10:41 pm: Edit

Tos, the same principle would apply to a St-X, a speed 20 fighter. I'll ask Petrick.

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 10:47 pm: Edit

St-X with WBP is speed 30, though I can't find the rule.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 01:01 am: Edit

The question wasn't for a specific rulling, it was to ask the question: "Do we want speed 40 fighters?"

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 05:01 pm: Edit

My answer:

Not no, but •••• no.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 05:17 pm: Edit

Ditto what John said

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 06:10 pm: Edit

For X1R and XP, do we want to introduce any new X1 tech fighters? How will players react to an F-111X? Would the only advantage be the ability to launch X-drones?

Do we want to build carriers during the Andro War? Are carriers generally considered effective against Andros?

Should we build a PFX class of fast PFTs? I'm assuming we don't want any X1 tech applied to PFs, but do we want any XP tech to dribble down? I can make an argument to allow PFs to adopt X-compatible drone racks but do we want to go any further?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 07:14 pm: Edit

Indeed, conversions to handle X1 drones should be at the top of the list for all XP conversions.

As to X fighters, perhaps exsisting fighters w/X-Maga Packs. These would add the normal maga pack stuff plus a few points of regenrative shields.

I can see XP carriers but not full X-Carriers. I see them as possible but not as practical.

GSX would be a rare X-CVL. At most perhaps there could be CVSX (strike cruiser based).

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 07:23 pm: Edit

Ooops, moved to X1R topic.

By Orman J. Hoffman II (Ojh2) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 07:51 pm: Edit

I don't have J2, so I am not sure what was added there, but given how X-ships are fairly brutal against attrition units, maybe X-fighters could be fitted with shield generating pods. The shields could cover the FH and RH arcs like interceptors. Has this been discussed before? I deffinately think that if X-fighters were to exist for races other than Hydrans they should be able to launch x-drones and plasmas.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 08:06 pm: Edit

Has this been discussed before?

Yup, two posts up.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 11:09 pm: Edit

If you are going down this route...any X1 or X2 fighters need to be new designs...not rehashed upgraded F14/F111/A20/F18-xyz thingees.

I concur with the "no speed 20 fighters" sentiments.

Either make them speed 30 (and no dash pods/warp pods at all) or speed 32 With pods attached but not susceptable to the damage that dash pods normal take (call it a new design and "hardened pods" or other 'handwavum' technobable.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 09:19 am: Edit

We dont need X fighters. But letting them fire X Drones might be doable.

(Which is basically what SVC said in the XP topic.)

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 08:35 pm: Edit

After all, why spend the extra money on a lot of things that are likely to be destroyed in less than a year? X-fighters would be very expensive and better left to a post-war environment. X-drones would be cheaper.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 02:50 pm: Edit

I'm willing to let X-fighters go speed 30 and even EM without paying a point of speed for the privelege, but that's it. SVC has made passing reference to a megapack-X and that seems a perfect venue for such stuff.

No speed-31 (no impulse for the extra point of speed) and certainly no speed-32.

I tend to go against allowing X-fighters fire X-drones. One would think that X-drones would be in somewhat limited supply.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 03:24 pm: Edit

Ditto what John said.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 04:33 pm: Edit

Up in the X2 Drones thread, we're discussing restricted/Limited/General availablility of X-drones.

That seems the perfect way of handling X-drones on fighters: give the (X-drones) a BPV cost and make the X-drone bus itself restricted availability until some relatively late year.

My latest suggestion at the drone tread is:

180-197: unavailable (X-ships get all X-drone production)
198: Restricted
203: Limited
205: General