So can I get a 10pt standard photon that still requires only 2+2 to arm?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 06:26 pm: Edit

The Heavy Disruptor doesn't see enough of a force increase over the old one to warrent more energy cost.

We designed it that way on purpose. Ther was, early on the thought of an 8 point base that would require 3 points but that was found to not be as good a proposal. Partly because at longer ranges the significants of the damage for three points wasn't good and no one wanted to see 16 point OL out of the Klingons disruptors.

Mike: I think your disruptor could still use the basic Capacitor system. That is a simple two energy point capacitor. You could allocate energy to the disruptor while there is energy in the cap but this would be discharged if not used. You could OL the disruptor directly but the cap energy could not be used then that turn. You cannot charge the cap with energy sent directly to the disruptor. You could fire from the caps or OL a charged from allocation Disruptor as well.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 06:52 pm: Edit

Jeremy,

that did come up at one time. We didn't like it, though...to much hassle on bookeeping when it came to figuring out costs for overloads. A one point improvement and no increase in range is nowhere near the change from a P2 to a P1, so I don't sweat it that much. Could be worse; we toyed with 10 point heavy disruptors, but feld they had too much crunch and would make the Klingon a sort of Fed-like ship.

By Mike Fannin (Daelin) on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 07:37 pm: Edit

Raperm,

You took his comment seriously, but I think it was meant as a joke (at least in part). 2+2 for 10 points photons is the same increase as 2 for 6 base damage (+1 damage (per turn) for no increase in power).

It seems to me that if it's good for one, it's good for the other. On the face, 6 disruptors that can hit 83% of the time at range 22 (assuming that the negative ECM shift bonus remains) is crazy-strong.

Dunno. Just feels wrong.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 07:51 pm: Edit

I know it was a joke; but we really did consider it breifly.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 08:06 pm: Edit

I just like teasing. It is indeed a joke, but it wasn't meant to be mean spirited. I think everybody know by now that I can be pretty bull headed when I latch on to a notion. Just having a little fun with Mike from another discussion - I knew he'ld understand.

On another note, I've just about got my idea of a 2X ship done (the Fed). I'm sure its going to kill everybody, but I'm not going to post it until I get its antogonists done. I won't let anything out of the bag, but I will say it will probably run counter to a lot of notions that have been developed in these discussions over the last year. In doing so, I honestly not trying to say that everyone's hard work is bad, wrong, etc, etc. I'm just trying to provide some fresh perspective. Shaking up things every now and then can be a good thing.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 08:24 pm: Edit

Yes, it is. There probably are a number of ways we could go about it, and the more we have to look at, the better off we'll be. I know your SSD's are always thoughtful and well-conceived, so I'm sure they'll give us much to think about.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 04:42 pm: Edit

Jeremy,

Good. The status quo can always use some shaking-up. Keeps us honest.

If you want me to post your rules or SSDs, e-mail them to me.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 01:19 am: Edit

Fed XCC, XCM, XDD, XCL posted on http://www.vorlonagent.com/sfb/x2/toscrawford/Tos-x2-ships.htm

An XSC and an XFF seem to be lost in space.

These use fewer 20 point 180 degree photons with modified photon table. Prox photons are now available from 4-40 and prox overloads are available from 4-8. Decision to prox or not made at time of firing.

I have a non-standard P5 table and a reduced number of P5s on the hull. My P5 costs 1.5 power and can downfire as 2xP2 using X-Aegis (limited to range 15 and appropriate size classes). I use the P1X in the offensive/defensive phaser. It can rapid fire as X1 can.

The larger ships have an OPT-RH weapon which is usually a photon or a special sensor but never a P5 which won't fit.

All ships have NWO and as a default these come configured as cargo. All of these ships are intended for long range use.

Power is on-par with X1. Weapons are intended to be lighter than X1.

You can power the ASIF in EA only up to the amount of your current Dam Con. The ASIF absorbs hits to control, cargo and hull on a 1:1 basis.

The Frigate can be found at: http://www.vorlonagent.com/sfb/x2/toscrawford/XFF3.gif

Note on the photon arcs on the Frigate. It is intended to act alone rather than as part of a fleet.

and the Scout can be found at:

http://www.vorlonagent.com/sfb/x2/toscrawford/XSC3.gif

By Don MacPhail (Dontz125) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 01:04 pm: Edit

Prox overloads sound great until you check the chart - ONE HUNDRED PERCENT HIT FOR TWENTY-POINT WARHEADS AT *SIX* RANGE??

Please excuse the screaming in my first-ever posting here, but that is just too close to S2 for me...

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 01:06 pm: Edit

Don, I don't think that's quite what the person had in mind. I can't remember the specifics, but it wasn't as bad as all that. Anyone remember who came up with that proposal?

By Mike Fannin (Daelin) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 01:22 pm: Edit

It'd be 10 point warheads, wouldn't it?

Prox = 1/2 warhead, by default.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 01:25 pm: Edit

There was something about being able to overload proximities; can't remember how it worked.

By Mike Fannin (Daelin) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 01:45 pm: Edit

Yeah, but that's what I mean. O/L to 20, prox means it'd be 10 points.

But I probably missed something.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 05:15 pm: Edit

Prox photons always hit for half damage.

The ones shown on these SSDs are based off a 20-point overloaded photon and would prox for 10, but they could only hit in the 4-8 bracket. From range 9+ you would have to use a prox of a 10-point standard load photon, which would do 5 damage.

Remember to arm a 10-point prox warhead requires 10 power over two turns. Unless you were killing fighters you would usually be better off firing a 20-point overload photon.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 05:21 pm: Edit

Also consider that this photon chart was created for an SSD I made a year ago. The topic has evolved since then and this type of photon may not be in vogue. Though it goes against conventional wisdom I left the chart as it originally was to break some of the crust off the circular photon arguments.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 05:55 pm: Edit

Tos, interesting designs. You call that a frigate but I gotta tell you it seems more like a fast destroyer to me. Your photon table reminds me of one I worked on during the X-Fix program. On the face of it I think it's pretty cool but it might better serve as a wartime design (mid-late-X2).

By Don MacPhail (Dontz125) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 07:04 pm: Edit

*grumble*mutter*checks chart again...*

OK, OK, first time on the board and I pull an oops... 10 points, not 20...

That said, however, isn't the "-1" to hit bonus on any X-beast with ECCM superiority still on the books? That would give 100% to-hit on (yes, I know) TEN-pointers out to EIGHT range... hrm.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 09:57 pm: Edit

Tos, at the very least that prox to hit should only be +1. Call it insability of the OL and Prox guidence. (All the energy emissions mess with the Prox sensors. The advanced part is that they work at all.)

Just a thought.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 10:48 pm: Edit

Don, don't sweat it. It's not like I presented a full explanation and rule set with these SSDs.

The objective here was to break all the rules:
Why does a Fed Cruiser have 4 FA photons?
Why does a Fed Cruiser have two warp engines?
Why does a Heavy Frigate/Destroyer have a MC=0.33 or MC=0.5?
Why can't I fire a Prox Photon at close range?
Why do I have to decide if a photon is prox or not during EA?
Why should it be assumed that X2 will retain the -1 to hit ••••?
Why should the P5 table have its sweet spot at range 8?
Why should a probe launcher not get an ammunition increase?
Why should the BPV of X2 make every dual into a squadron action for one side?
Why shouldn’t a fleet ship want to have a small cargo hold during a trade war? Particularly if that cargo hold can be easily converted to fighter bays and mech-links in case of hostilities?
Why should one invent the P6 when the P1 is so much better and already in full production?

Note the P5 table on the XDD is different then the others. This too is an alternative old design for your amusement. Obviously only one P5 design would win but I left it on the XDD (accidentally) to rock to boat.

I’m under no illusions that these SSDs would be accepted whole cloth, rather I present them as a test bed of new technologies in unusual combinations.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 11:33 pm: Edit

It is a pretty cool design.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 10:52 am: Edit

I just sent John a copy of my Fed XCC. Basically its a crossbreed from a CF/NCA/XShip.

There would probably be a number of changes. But the main thing is I included a P5 table thats may have future changes but nothing to major. (Mainly a point or two shift in any R bracket.)

I simply stuck the old Photon table onto it as a placeholder.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 02:48 pm: Edit

It's up.

http://www.vorlonagent.com/sfb/x2/kenjones/FedXCC.gif

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 03:32 pm: Edit

Makes my proposed XCC look pretty mild.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 06:40 pm: Edit

I think that is a good example of a Cruiser SSD that could benefit from a 1.25 MC. Granted it might need some balancing warp but that's one big cruiser.