Possible, yes. Cost effective, no. The Roms did it because they were desperate and fighting a civil war.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 11:28 am: Edit

The KEX breaks all kinds of rules, but mostly because of the massive cast iron hull. It has armor. Old ships with armor can take more punishment than new ships without it. Hence, the fact that the KEX has X-tech does not prove that the Fed CA or BC, the Klingon D7 or C8, the Romulan SP or FH, can have X-tech.

That being said, "partial X ships" are of course plausible.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 11:33 am: Edit

I don't think every ship could get X upgrades. I do think, though, that partial upgrades are possible, which is what I assumed was being discussed. Batteries, shield upgrades, x-drones...these shouldn't stress the hull very much, and as with normal military technology, they could possibly become the new standard for ships in the post Y-200 era.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 12:14 pm: Edit

Kenneth Jones: I think of it this way. The NWO on a GW ship is laiden with PCI32 and ATA66 ports. Pluging in a x-tech system that uses PCI66 and SerialATA and a different power supply wouldn't work.

The XP refit goes beyond simply pluging in a new system. It does all the things nessasary to make the systems compatable, like power conversion, data routines to convert instructions, a new PCI66 sub-system etc.

Like the Fed CA is converted to an X-ship the XP refit is a conversion but partial because full conversion isn't possable. So, the Fed BCJ certainly wouldn't get six X-Photons but it might get converted back to a BDG-X with four X-Photons and four GX-Racks. Phasers might stay the same or get a Ph-3 pulse upgrade (but with the capacitor remaining 1 pt. per). Batteries and Computers would certainly be upgraded and it would be equiped to handle X-Shuttles. Shields might get a slight improvement mostly due to other non-X studies. The shield system might only get a four box improvement through and improved Enermax Converter Coupling on the grid array cross over points and a slight software upgrades to BCHSHIELDS.EXE v3.44.54.6.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 11:28 am: Edit

Are any of the X1 ships upgrades, or were they all new construction? The ones that were upgraded should be able to get XP tech.

The war destroyers, war cruisers, and BCHs might not be able to handle it. But the CCs, OCLs, DDs, and FFs might.

As to the type of upgrades, I think a lot of this was covered in the XP thread.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 12:12 pm: Edit

Most X1 cruisers were upgrades.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 01:37 pm: Edit

I always look at an X1 cruiser as being just as maxed out as a BCH is. SVC may correct me. There's certainly enough phasers and other stuff to justify that viewpoint.

It's like: (using Fed for reference)

Normal hull: CA/CC
Hull maxed: CB
Pushed to limit: BCG, BCF or CX
Pushed past limit: BCJ

Both X1 and the BCH seem to use the CB as the jumping off point. IIRC, the first Fed X-ship was originally a CB.

When I think about X2, I think about ratcheting ships back to "hull maxed" status. We push ships to their limits again when the Xorks arrive.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 02:01 pm: Edit

Loren,John that is incorrect actually.

One Fed CC (NCC-1749, Vincennes) was converted to X-Tech, the rest were new consruction. 1 per year (182-192) till 193 when production increased. (This is acccording to the R-section--R2.201)

The CB is indeed based on the CA hull, but it is not a maxed out hull, or X-tech would be impossible.

THe BCH hull is an etirely new desigen that was made to be the best(max) it could be, so no further upgrade was possible without stressing the hull (BCJ).

Jeff, non war hulls could be converted to X-tech. Basically you have these that can be converted, CAs,FFs only for most races.

Feds: CC,CA,FF. (CVL can be converted GVX)
Klingons: D7,F5L,F5. (F5S can be converted to FSX)
Romulans: FH,SEH. (KE->KEX is an odd duck)
Lyrans: CC,CA,DD,FF.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 02:15 pm: Edit

Chris,

I believe you'll find there were plenty of X-conversions as well as new construction.

The gods know the Romulans were converting wholesale during their civil war, otherwise there would have been no KRX or KEX's fighting on the Imperial side.

That suggests that other power did some converting also.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 02:58 pm: Edit

Oh I'm am sure there was some converting done of many ships. It is a little cheaper to do a conversion than to buy one outright. The main problem is conversion locations. The Kzinti and Hydran for example are down to 2 starbases each by the time X-ships are available. The Romulans similary are down to 2 or 3. And they are pretty much broke. The Feds and Klingons could do maybe 4 or 5, but no one has the money for that many.

But the Fed schedule at least is actually written down. One CX conversion and 10 new builds. They probably built FFXs outright, as it saves almost nothing to convert it. The DDX must be built outright. So, perhaps 2-4 CX conversions during that 11 year time period.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 09:50 pm: Edit

Normal hull: CA/CC
Hull maxed: CB or CX
Pushed to limit: BCG or BCF
Pushed past limit: BCJ

I was under the impression it was more like this.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 11:03 pm: Edit

Hey, wait a minute. Enterprise NCC-1701 was a conversion!

And Enterprise is a SFB ship though as only an entry in the Starship Registry.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 11:27 pm: Edit

NCC-1701A is a CX in (R2.201).

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 12:18 am: Edit

ST:TMP had the NCC-1701 designation. It was a refit and I assume that refit was X-Tech. When that ship was destroyed another was renamed Enterprise and designated NCC-1701A. This ship was a new build and, again assuming, new as a CX.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 03:30 am: Edit

The CB is not the max the CA hull can do obviously, as the CX is based on the exact same hull.


As for the conversions of CXs, like I said, I am sure there were a few done. The R-section on the ship, i.e. the printed rules, say that one was a conversion and then 10 more were built in that 11 year period.

I really don't think you can use the movies as a basis for anything really. But, yes, the 1701-A was a rechristening of the U.S.S Yorktown, and that maywell be what the CX is.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 12:06 pm: Edit

I wasn't really trying to direct SFB with ST:TMP. Just goofin' off.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 01:18 pm: Edit

Carried a question over to the "Timeline" thread.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 09:42 pm: Edit

Thought I'd ease us back into X2 with an idea I had commuting this morning.

Flexwarp:

X2 engines function differently than standard or X1 engines. Not necessarily better, but definitely in some ways.

The downside first: Ships using Flexwarp cannot use mid-turn speed changes.

Ships using Flexwarp plot a constant speed for the entire turn.

Flexwarp-capable ships may pay reserve warp equal to 2 hexes of movement to:

1) Move when not normally scheduled to move

2) Choose to NOT move when normally scheduled to move.

At no time may Flexwarp be used to move more than one hex per impulse. Flexwarp cannot be used to move a ship on Impulse 1.

Movement using Flexwarp is considered normal movement for all purposes. A ship can turn if turn mode was previously fulfilled and/or slip if slip mode was previously satisfied. Hexes moved under flex warp count toward turn and slip modes. etc. Flexwarp does not for any purpose add to the speed of the ship.


Flexwarp-capable ships may use 1 hex of movement worth of reserve warp to add +1 to the count of hexes moved toward the ship's turn and slip mode.


When using TACs, a Flexwarp-capable ships may use a Warp-TAC to move straight instead of change facing. If a ship chooses to move, its speed is considered to be 6.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 01:11 pm: Edit

Interesting idea.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 02:05 pm: Edit

There's an idea that Loren and a couple of others tossed out before that I like too. Buying hexes of movement that count toward satisfying turn mode. Could that fit in with Flexwarp?

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 04:00 pm: Edit

I thought I threw it in. Second-to--last paragraph, in fact.

It was an idea I played with too.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 09:25 pm: Edit

Offhamd Flexwarp seems to be a stripped down Hoverwarp IIRC. (Been awhile since I looked at Fliver rules.)

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 10:50 pm: Edit

Okay it's either senile dementia or I must've skipped that paragraph. Either way, oh yeah.

Can't comment on Hoverwarp since I'm not familiar with Omega/Simulator (not sure which) guys.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 11:23 pm: Edit

Ken,

Similar to the Flivvers, yes, except going in reverse is not in the rules.

By Adam James Villatorio (Merlinfmct87) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 12:57 am: Edit

This is an idea I had after reading The Hunt for Red October. In this, when the Red October is hit, it talks about how hard the Batteries are to matinence beacuse of the odd placement.

However, the reason they are there is to absorb torpedo damage.

With that in mind, I came up with selective armor.

This system makes it so you have to destroy a certain ammount of armor boxes before you destroy a system.

The downside to this is once it is damaged, the repair cost is doubled, because of the armor surrounding the system.

For Example: let's say that a PH-5 was just hit on the DAC. Ordinarily, it would be boxed out and the DAC would go on, but under this system one of the armor boxes(surrounding that particular system) would be checked off instead and the DAC would continue as normal.

I realize that the 0X-1X systems were probably armored already(that's what makes the phaser hits(which are a lot more delicate than standard hull) take the same ammount of damage as standard hull, I am just saying that in 2X there would be a sort of Quantum-Leap in armor technology, allowing better protection around certain devices.

This is just an idea in my head, I have not playtested this to any extent. I just thought it would be a great way to make the 2X ships feel different without much rule overhead.