Archive through April 28, 2002
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board:
New Rules:
(D) Weapons:
The Photon DEsperate Rationalization For inAdequate CaptainS:
Archive through April 28, 2002
Otherwise known as PDERFACS, this was a system created by politicos in the Federation High Command to make up for politically-appointed captains who proved themselves unable to manage the advantages and disadvantages of their ships and weapons.
Captains provided with this program excelled in theory but failed to achieve any kind of combat effectiveness because of their excessive reliance on dubious statistics. These captains main weakness was there inability to adapt to tactical situations that required maneuver, timing and other concepts.
In light of these inadequacies, the PDERFACS program was instituted to compensate. The program was designed to remove any thought on the part of the starship commanders in the hopes that by modifying the simulator the desired success rates could be achieved.
The result was a fleet of captains that functioned well within the confines of the simulator, but a fleet that was totally incapable of dealing "WitH Invariably raNdom Events."
This resulted in the the Federation's "WHINE Program," which is a separate topic that shall be addressed later if the need arises.
Totally unnecessary topic, Marc.
If you are going to start this topic, do one for drone and plasma "whiners too". This is a topic for proposals not quips.
This is totally appropriate. There are six or seven "proposals" to improve the photon torpedo on this list. There is one to improve disruptors (and it is a silly proposal at that).
No, this is not appropriate. While you may feel the various photon improvements are unbalanced, unfair or just plain wrong, they were serious attempts by different players looking for feedback. You have the right to disagree with them; I admit that I do, now.
But being rude is not a right; this is just a blatant jab at those people, and a waste of time.
Marc; you forgot the NVC mandate for the PPD. Shame on you. Historically ISC captains were indoctrinated into the RLJ Academy (Rules Lawyer Jerk), where they learned how to cheat the physics of the game...er, environment. Quite effective too since SFC has found no compatible counter.
This isn't appropriate - the author (I can only assume) knows that. Ignore it and it will go away.
What's inappropriate is trying to change one of the standard benchmarks in the game. This leads to "creaping", where the entire game has to be slowly up-powered to compensate for continual "fixes."
Now I didn't begin a rant in one of your topics, so there is no need for anybody to begin one here. Please have your discussion, but understand that other people view it as a threat to a great game system.
This was meant in levity, not as a personal assault on anyone. I apologize if any of you take it as such.
Marc,
I agree with your points. I don't believe these changes are warranted.
However, do you really believe that calling people Desperate or Inadequate is not insulting?
Tony
Tony,
Ditto. I have had a change of heart, as I said in another post...I even asked SVC to kill my IP photon thread. But Marc, seriously...if you were in a room full of people, and said this stuff to their face, don't you think it would be insulting? I know it's easy to forget that, given the kind of cyber environment this is, but if I were still haraunging the masses for a change to the photon, I'd take it as an insult.
I don't get insulted from whining about whiners. Is this a free speech forum or not. Funny how often people use free speech to try a quell the free speech of others.
If you don't like a show on T.V. then change the channel. If you don't like a topic then don't friggin read it!
Look, the majority of the posts have been a healthy debate. That is good. This is unhealthy.
Loren: For what it's worth, this forum (as I understand it) allows for great lattitude in enjoyment of the First Ammendment to the United States Constitution.
HOWEVER, this is the property of ADB. SVC, and those whom he has placed in authority over this forum (not me), reserve the right to end, censor, or censure any discussion here that detracts from the general enjoyment of discussions and may lead to a lack of interest in the SFU and SFG products.
In other words, say what you (whomever you are) want, but remember this is PRIVATE PROPERTY and SVC has invited you here. He can invite you out or stop you in your tracks. It is his right as a property owner.
Yes, you are absolutly right. My comments refered to those between us users. This post is an obvious poke at myself and others who want to discuss a topic that holds value to us. Nothing may come of our discussions. While the space is important to SVC, I'm sure he'll tell us when we are waisting it. As I understand it we do have freedom within the confines of ADBs board rules. Anyway, I'm not one to carry on negativly. I just don't think this topic is serious or healthy (IMO).
Peace to all SFB Players. Lets all get along! Yaaa!
PS. Though I think this thread is not so cool, I hold no ill towards anyone. I'm chill.
Wow. People are taking this entirely too personally. I apologize.
I used the word "desperate" in reference to the term "rationalization." I referred to no one with that term.
I used the word "inadequate" to refer to captaining a starship. My tactics are often inadequate, and fail to take advantage of "maneuver, timing and other concepts." I try to learn from these mistakes rather than complaining about the rules.
My point here is that if you are having trouble playing a race, don't change the rules to accomodate it. Change your tactics. This has been stated time and time again in the Fed Tactics and Photon proposals, perhaps with less insult. So again, I'll apologize.
Please take this as light-hearted jabs to address a serious topic: if you make changes to the benchmark weapon, we will begin to experience "creeping", which has killed many games.
That's all, nothing more, and nobody is a bad person.
Okay, everyone, lets all play nice...no more beating up on Marc, he obviously didn't mean it to go so far.
Marc, I think everyone understands your post...it's just that there has been a frightful amount of "photon improvement bashing" going on, and this was a bit too much. Don't sweat it, though. These things happen.
Now, where can I go start my "super hellbore" thread...
JUST JOKING!!!!
Thanks Mark. I'm cool. Just a comment on the above post. Feds and Hydrans are the races I win most with. Actually, I'm not having trouble with the photon or the rules. However, I'm a BIG fan of the SFB History, and I would like to see some kind of progression for the photon. Albeit, a very small one would serve my liking. I also believe that a serious change would be BAD. I agree it is a bench mark weapon but is that a blessing or a curse. Frankly, after 20+ years of playing the game the Feds don't hold as much interest to me as they once did.(I still love them, but I don't really really love them anymore.) So I'd like to see some kind of evolution some how. Thats why I like the Light Photon idea. Basicly, it changes nothing, but adds a small and useful diamention to the photon. As far as game balance goes, it's harmless.
After all this time, I cannot conceive of any changes to the photon ever being made. There might be something that someone might come up with that might be allowed in SSJ, but beyond that, I think such pursuits would bring no results. (though, I could very well be wrong).
I have to say that Marc beat me to the punch. I was going to come up with the DWeYWant (pronounced Dweywant)photon upgrade interphase module. To appease all the whiney photon users, the DWYWant module would need to be powered with any remaining available power left in reserves (and if none, then it requires no power). Then the fed player can Do-Whatever-You-Want to score a guarentee hit.
However, since Marc made his post, I won't create one of my own.
I've lost track of how many photon improvement threads are in this BBS. It's actually quite humorous.
Glenn, we are not whinning! Seriously, can't we discuss it without offending. In all of the discussions people have been learning things, entertaining new ideas and all in all having a good debate. Standing by an idea is NOT whinning. Sheesh.
SVC:
Do you think there's a lot of good X2 material being generated by some of the ideas being floated?
Loren,
While I may use the word "whiny" loosely, it the most apt word I can think of. I really mean no disrespect when using that word, though I do see how others could be offended if they're sensitive to that kind of critism.
And in retrospect, I used to be one of those people who complained that the photon had to be improved (I'm sure its in the archives somewhere).
But I have since played against people who actually know how to use a photon armed ship effectively and have learned that photons are the last weapon that need improving.
And yes, I find it silly that people are constantly rehashing old ideas (ideas so old that they were formed at the beginning of the game) and trying to create rules to compensate for their inadequecies in a specific area of the game.
The last thing I want is to see the photon become modified more than it is now. Doing so could -- no, would imbalance the whole weapon and every ship that carries it.
Of course, that's just me and my little whiney attitude, but I can live with it.
Glen,
I, like you, have changed my opinion on the photon and consider it fine. Took some effort and testing on my part, but my opinion has changed. However, I can conceive on no one NOT being offeded by the term "whiny." I much prefer misinformed, myself, and should I argue the merits of the photon, that is the term I will use.
Rehashing ideas, or proposing new rules and debating their merits is not silly, IMHO. On the contrary, it is a healthy way to continue to advance and improve the game; brainstorming always is. Further, a board like this is the ideal place for such activity; it let's a wide variety of players from all skill levels discuss the idea together. While I disagree with many of the ideas posted, I do not think that they should be inhibited in any way, nor should the person presenting the idea be accused of being whiny or a poor player. They have the right to discuss what they want, free of censure or ridicule, until SVC or SPP says "enough."
Again, I agree the photon is just fine as it is; if anyone wants to see the actual data I collected, I'd be happy to send it to them. But I won't object to anyone discussing new rules; if nothing else, they may find a good 2X photon idea.
MJC: Probably. I don't read X2 topics as I have more projects "hard scheduled" than I have time for anyway.
I have decided to lighten up as I think I was being offended for others more than myself and I'm sure the others can take care of them selves just fine. So, I appologise for getting uppity.
The photon is a good weapon. And perhaps some of the ideas are rehashes of old ideas. But the game has evolved much since the beginning and whats been going on is a good thing because of that. What if we found out, through good debate that the photon was lacking in the later years? Or perhaps the debates have proved that the photon is still just fine.(Which may be what has happened, like in Mikes case.) Both results are valuable. People who have problems with the photon maybe learned something and thats good too because now we have more satified players and thats good for everybody. So post away. The good ideas will work out into a rule, maybe. The bad ones seem to work them selves into oblivion anyway, so theres nothing to worry about. I like to entertain new ideas at first. At least to see where they go. Give 'em a chance. It might be worth it.
I am cofident that the Steves will never let a bad rule happen just because a few players really want it. Some times bad ideas spawn good ones. I asked SVC about mounting a heavy drone on a mech link, which he said no to, but it got him to thinking that other things might be able to. (Pontoons)
All in all this message board is really fun, and I will try not to get so absorbed as to take offence to any thing. Truely, everybody here is probably really cool. Having been raised on Trek, Glenn, how could you not be? (offers hand for handshake.) 
Shake . . . okay we're all at peace . . .
Now let loose the dogs of war!
Loren,
I happily accept the handshake. And your words are wise.
Marc,
I also agree with you. Maybe my choice of words should have warranted reconsideration. Political correctiveness (as one gets older) sometimes becomes secondary. I will endeavor to chose my words better. Your point is well taken.
To all,
No promises if another new "serious" photon improvement topic comes up. And I will retain an open minded view point, even if it kills me. :-)