Heavy Carrier
Assault Carrer

It does have ADDs and CHAFF (like the A20/F111).⁴²

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica) on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 01:09 pm: Edit

"I think the F-7, though ,as you say, a cut-down admin shuttle, is in fact a fighter under the rules."

Sort of. It is a fighter...but the ship carrying it never has a ready-rack for it, nor does it come with drones (or D-torps, for the G-7) for free...and it can't use a megafighter rig (there's no such thing as a F7M or G7M, per SPP in a thread here a few months back).

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 01:20 pm: Edit

Well, I feel it is single space fighter, because a F-14M comes in at 14 damage points an is single spaced.

It really is not THAT much more powerful than a fighter combat wise, just in its extra abilities (which is what I see X2 as).

John, Loren ,I will concede the Ph-G down to FX, how's that? F-111 has a PG FX. (And the Hydran Howler I has a 360 PG. Loren).

Shields are repaired at 1:1

Yes, it has a 6 round ADD and 2 chaff.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 01:46 pm: Edit

Oh ya Hydran. FX is cool.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 03:27 pm: Edit

Cfant,

P-G: I'd be happier with FH, but it'll do for a proposal.

Personal opinion: 1:1 shield repair is too good.

The 6-shot ADD is *definitely* too good.

On the other side, "just" 4 tyupe-VII drones might be a little light.

You might allow yourself two more spaces of drones and allow those spaces to be used for

1) 2 more VII drones

2) 1 more VIII drone

3) 1 more reload for the photon

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 04:45 pm: Edit

Just an observation, but allowing it to repair shields ***IS*** effectively regenerating the shields.

Leaving it at 1:2 ratio of ship repaired sheilds is better than 1:1 given the number of turns a scenario could be played in a game session, but still gives players the opportunity to fully repair the sheilds without having to return to the carrier.

Not saying I oppose this, but recognise that this is a huge improvement over GW era fighters.

By Charles E. Leiserson, Jr. (Bester) on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 04:56 pm: Edit

I know I'm coming into this a bit late, but here are a couple of ideas anyways:

Give it two X-Ph-1s (or one Ph-1 and one Ph-2) FX instead of a Ph-1 and a Ph-G. If they rapid-pulse, you have a defacto Ph-G without actually using one.

This makes it a bit more versatile but less overpowering. The player must decide whether he intends to get close enough to a target to use the "gatling," whether the enemy might launch seeking weapons at him, or if he should just fire at longer ranges.

If you want to mess with the arcs to temper it a little, make one FX and one RX. Gat-ability to the sides (where seeking weapons are likely to be when it turns off) if it wants, but not all around. It also doesn't lose the rear protection that an FX or FH Ph-G would take away.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 05:16 pm: Edit

The extra drones John speaks of could be type IX dogfight drones. They make for an excellent drones defense.

I like the two XP-1 idea replacing the Ph-G. That way you choose one over the other.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 05:26 pm: Edit

If anything, the two XP-1 would be much more versatile than Ph-G.

Perhaps that is a question that would be best resolved by playtest?

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 05:41 pm: Edit

Guys, the A-20FM is probably the closest thing to the 'Wraith'. I know the A-20 is a heavy fighter, but take a look.

Some comparison

A-20FM:
20 Damage
2xPhoton(4 charges)
1xP2-FX
1xP3-RX
1xADD-6
4xSpecial Rails
1xEW Pod
Speed---30
BPV-36

Wraith:
21 Damage (Including Shields)
2xPhoton(2 charges)
1xP1-FA
1xPG-FX
1xADD-6
4xSpecial Rails
1xEW Pod
Speed---30
BPV-30 (at the moment)

Now, things that 'Wraith' can do....

3 points of power for EW, Shields(repair only), recharge photons. (Maybe negative tractor??)

So, the Wraith is definitely better than the A-20FM, but then I this fighter is coming out 25 years after the A-20FM. It is not that much better armed actually, just a P1 instead of a P2 and a PG over a P3, which is pretty powerful, but not for 25 years later.

The P1 is NOT an X-P1 that on a fighter is way no no. The Feds best fighter for 30+ years carries a PG. They would continue to use one. One P1 is fine I think, 2 is too much.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 05:43 pm: Edit

What if we make the shield repair the standard 2:1, make the PG RX and the P1 FH. Perhaps make the cost of the fighter 35 BPV?

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 05:45 pm: Edit

Oh, in response to John,

I want the fighter to have some drones, but I do not want it to be a drone platform. It is a fighter that would have been developed at the end of the Andro war, and drones just make an Andro laugh. I want a primary direct fire fighter for the Feds. The Kzin I am sure would have many drones, but I want mine to have 4.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 08:52 pm: Edit

Cfant,

Please don't *add* a P-1 in addition to the Gat, RX for the gat or not. One or the other. Both is excessive.

With 2x photon the thig has a hades lot of DF power as it is. As squadron of 12 of these things would be devestating as-is.

Comparisons to the A-20 are questiionable because the A-20 is a *2*-space fighter. You're trying to pack that plus advanced characteristics into a *1* space fighter.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 09:45 pm: Edit

CFant: How about one tube with two charges. Then allowing the two points of decressionary power to be diverted to OLing a charge. Allow discressionary power to be allotted during the turn. The OL energy can only be applied at the moment of firing. Since the standard charge would be 2+2 the added 2 points would make a 12 point OL.

THEN, at launch cause two damage to the fighter which can be absorbed by shield if available. Additionally, there would be the normal feed back damage if fired at R0-1. So an R1 OL would cause 8 damage to the fighter. Another like it would cripple it.

TO those that would worry about this, this is a compromise between two 8 point photons (16) and one 12 that causes damage. Also, to fire an OL the Wraith would have to close to R8, a very dangerous place to be for a fighter.

A 30+ BPV this isn't too much. That 360+ BPV for a full squadron.

CFant: Question, since it has shields could it operate in a nebula?

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 12:09 am: Edit

No, I want two torps on it, just like the A-20FM, but only 1 charge for each torp. Also, because of the rearming factor of the wraith, the carriers will not have the ready racks to reload the torps, only the drones.

No, I really do not want a fighter that can overload photons, or anything else. THought about it, but I just think it would be bad.

John, the 1xP1 has always been part of the proposed fighter. The F-111 has a P2 and a PG, and as well all know the only difference in P1s and P2s is the targeting system. I think that in 205 or so, the targeting system will be advanced enough to have fighters with P1s.

As for the Wraith having the characteristics of a heavy fighter but being smaller, that is what X2 is all about..packing more punch into smaller packages so you don't need as much. Also, for the BPV, the fighters are quite similar, thus the comparison is valid. Also, I am assuming that the carrier will be built around the fighters, so we could call them 1.5 space fighters or whatever, but will have only 1 single shuttle box for each fighter.

Loren, I think that with the shields, it could operate in a nebula. Say that the shields also give the fighter an integrity field. But put a time limit on it. Like, the Wraith could operate in a Nebulae for up to 64 consecutive impulses, taking 1 point of damage to the hull every 16 impulses. It would then need to spend at least 32 impulses on the carrier to be.....cleaned, fixed, whatever.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 11:09 am: Edit

Cfant,

There's also "good" and "too good."

In the end, it's yours and I respect the effort you and Robert put into. I just make my suggestions.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 12:49 pm: Edit

You know, I never check this thread. I made this fighter up about three years ago, just for kicks. Never even thought about it until now. It's actually very similar to CFants, at least in ability. It has an FH and RH shield, but they don't repair without landing and getting a deck crew to do it. And, each fighter requires two deck crews, even though they're one space fighters.

R2.?? Federation YF122 ATF

No, it isn't a serious submission. Just thought it'd be fun to post.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 06:47 pm: Edit

There's some beleif that X2 vessels will have difficulties dealing with fighters and drones.
I commend a new arming mode for the Probe.


X2G5.___.0 The Fragmentation Probe.
In order to protect vessels in the X2 period from fighters and drones the Galactic powers developed a system of defending their vessels via a modifed probe. The Modifed probe is called a Fragmentation probe. The mechanism is fairly simple, the probe is armed as an antimatter bomb ( although it doesn't opperate as one ) and fired in any direction like a probe, where-upon it explodes. The skin of the probe ( or husk ) is made of tiny fragmenting segements that are thrown out in all directions and if they strike a drone or shuttle shall damage that drone or shuttle as though the drone or shuttle had been struck by an ADD round.

X2G5.___.1 Arming
The Arming cost of a fragmentation probe is 1 point of power (one point of which (but not both ) must be warp power) over two turns ( for a total of 2 points of power ) and may be held for 1 point of power from any soarse after arming is complete.

X2G5.___.2 Effect
The Fragmentation probe may be fired in any direction. When it is fired there is no die roll to hit the target hex, the fragmentation probe simply arrives and explodes.
The detonation of the fragmenation probe is small and because of the size of each hex, unable to inflict any damage on any target, in & of it'self. However fragments of the skin of the fragmentation probe are flung out at high speeds in all directions.
The fragments count as ADD rounds for the purpose of damaging targets but hit targets with the following likelihoods based on range. Roll a single six sided die for each target within range 3 with no limit to the number of targets.

Range 0	Range 1	Range 2	Range 3
1-5	1-4	1-2	1

X2G5.___.3 Cost
Fragmentation probes replace regular probes in the probe launcher. They can not opperate as regular probes. They cost 1 BPV to replace the probe they are replacing.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 05:48 am: Edit

I've been working on an idea for a "Servo Drone." I modeled it after the Unmanned Air Vehicle (UAV) in use these days. It's basically a big drone with a probe in the nose and a four-shot X2-ADD (which I call something else) that can lend EW and is remote-operated by its parent ship, a parent-ship shuttle, or another X2 ship with special capabilities (details irrelevant right now). It can assist in TACINTEL, act as a Lab, etc. The probe can remain in the servo drone and operate normally or it can be launched by the drone (which then loses certain functions).

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 11:30 pm: Edit

On another firing option for the Probe, if we do go down the line of, we can trade in the probes for something else, we ought have an option to that trade, say opting for something else.

X2G5.___.0 Dedicated Antimatter Bombs
As development went further with providing alternate uses for the Probe launcher another development steeped forward, this was a dedicated antimatter bomb inside a probe husk that would allow for a far better weapon than the impromptu conversion of a probe into an antimatter bomb.
Thus a dedicated antimatter bomb was developed.

X2G5.___.1 Arming
The Dedicated Antimatter bomb was far more powerful than the regular probe as antimatter bomb.
The Antimatter bomb is armed with 2 points of war power over two turns. It can also be overloaded with a third point of war power one either or both of the two turns. For every full point of warp power loaded into the weapon when fired after the first 4, the warhead strength is increase by 1 point of damage. Standard arming builds an 8 point antimatter bomb.

X2G5.___.2 Firing
When fiired the dedicated antimatter bomb shall roll its chance to hit its target by rolling a single die greater than the range as per the conventional antimatter bomb but unlike the conventional antimatter bomb the dedicated antimatter bomb may be fire anywhere within 360° like a conventional probe.

X2G5.___.3 Purchase
The Dedicated Antimatter Bomb replaces a probe in the probe rack and the act or replacing that probe costs 0.5 BPV.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 02:33 pm: Edit

MJC,

Why is this proposal under "Attrition Units"?

By Nikolaus Athas (Nycathis) on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 06:43 pm: Edit

And I could just SEE the Federation Science Council authorising yet ANOTHER weapon system on "their" exploration ships.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 06:56 pm: Edit

J.T.:

Read two postes above the one of mine you read.


N.A.:

Yeah, the ten slot GSC probe launchers would be the first to get the alternate probe husks.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 07:55 pm: Edit

MJC,

I read those posts. I am still wondering why your suggestion is posted to a topic meant for attrition units.

There is a prefectly usable topic under the name of "X2 ph-3 and other small defensive weapons" where your proposal is completely on-topic.

By R. Brodie Nyboer (Radiocyborg) on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 12:06 am: Edit

Hmm, interesting point. Would my "Servo Drone" above (January 15, 2005 - 05:48 am) fall under attrition units or something else?