Michael,
The original FF designed by Steve Cole had square nacelles. While I dislike the square nacelles I don't like we should be limited to just round TOS nacelles either.

Will,
I failed to mention this before but is a really nice drawing!

Edit

I have been trying to do a NCA and a DNW for awhile and I hope to have them done soon.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 11:46 am: Edit

John,

SVC has already said that the square nacelles were a failed experiment on his part. The FF has, and has always had, round nacelles.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 03:13 pm: Edit

All -
Thanks for the kind words.

The old 4-piece square-nacelle mini was all I had at hand to build my 3d model and drawing from. I was eyeballing it, as I didn't have my calipers at home, so I'll be tuning the proportions of my model in the next couple of days (and adding the missing details).

I labeled it as a prototype in the drawing; my idea is that "Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems" originally proposed the YFF design with the boxy nacelles. They were eventually made to change it to the round nacelles on the current mini for production commonalities (where possible) with the larger SWF-engines used by the YCA/YDD/YDN/YTT. Maybe it can use the same 'oscillation overthruster' or something... ;)

I plan to do another drawing using a modified version of the same model for a "production" FF with the round nacelles (which can then be modified to become a WarDestroyer, etc.).

Now I know all the fun Ted Geibel has been having all these years!

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 03:15 pm: Edit

Another thought -
I definitely think there should be performance data, class history, registry numbers/ship names, etc. on a tech-document like this. Maybe on an overleaf page.

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 06:30 pm: Edit

Perhaps the boxy nacelles had problems with the Lectrical systems, and that's why they switched to the round ones.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 05:31 pm: Edit

I think all the pegs were round and didnt fit well with the box type engines.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 08:41 am: Edit

Just to be clear, the "experiment" I mention regards the mini itself in reality. Within the game itself, the FF (and YFF) have always had round nacelles. The old FF mini is just wrong.

Just like the NCL minis. The NCL's engines never "got bigger" or changed, it is just that the latest mini corrected the sizing error present in the original mini.

By John Pepper (Akula) on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 11:59 am: Edit

The YFF is actually a different design then the FF.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 03:18 pm: Edit

John - is that documented somewhere?
They have exactly the same planform in the SSD, so I would think the hulls are related.

I assumed they would be much as the R-series YCA's eventually led to the Constitution-class CA's. Different classes, but one was a later derivative of the other (and the earlier could be upgraded to match the newer).

By John Pepper (Akula) on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 11:52 pm: Edit

See the R8 cover, the YFF is the ship with the warp nacelles above the hull. www.sfbnexus.com has a better view of the ship.

R8 Cover
http://www.starfleetstore.com/MERCHANT2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=5627

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 09:58 pm: Edit

Hmmm... that pretty much blows my thinking out of the water. Oh well, not the first time.

I'll just finish my "square nacelle" drawing up as if it was a pitch for the FF design. I'll do a revised drawing with round nacelles as the production FF (and variants).

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 05:15 pm: Edit

Is that not a Fed NCL instead of a YFF on the R8 cover?

By John Pepper (Akula) on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 11:29 pm: Edit

No that is infact a YFF on the cover just as it appears on Ted's site. I actually recently asked for a mini to be made of it.

http://www.sfbnexus.com/Federation/FedYFF-A.jpg

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 02:27 am: Edit

OK, this took a lot longer than I thought it would. Here is a more refined proposal page:
http://www.djdood.com/media/FedFF_Proposed.pdf

Again, this is the Fed FF in a format somewhat similar to the Classic FJS Tech Manual. I added some flavor text. This model and drawing is based on the original (square-engine) mini. The flavor text says it was a failed design concept. The next page will depict the current (round engine) mini as the prototype U.S.S. Burke. A third page would show a production version that would have the upper-hull teardrop, etc., as in SVC drawings and Nick Blank's deck plans.

A fourth page could show detail views of the areas that change for the FFG, FFE, etc., etc.

To fit it onto an 8.5 x 11 page I really have to shrink the views and a lot of detail is lost. That's a shame, because the model has a lot more to show:
http://www.djdood.com/media/FedFF_Shaded.jpg

Feedback would be appreciated.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 09:50 am: Edit

Will: Not bad work.

We need to consider the overall project. How many books, how many pages, how many ships. The math then yields if each ship gets one page or six pages.

I just did a ten-page skyhawk layout in Gurps Romulans.

By John Pepper (Akula) on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 12:26 pm: Edit

Very Nice!!

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 04:30 pm: Edit

I picked up the G1 deckplans on Saturday.

I really need to pick up the GURPS books, so I can see more of what's been done, and what the formatting looks like.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 06:11 pm: Edit

Wait just a bit for the new editions to come out. GPD4e, GK4e and GR4e are all ready o near ready for release.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 04:19 am: Edit

I found a way to trick my software into letting me change line-weights without crashing, so I updated the pdf with a much cleaner one (shows a little more of the details).
http://www.djdood.com/media/FedFF_Proposed.pdf

I'll be starting on a round engine model tommorow.

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 12:31 pm: Edit

This looks very nice. Would love to add this to a collection.

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 12:34 pm: Edit

I have the minis that first came out as the square warp FF and smaller sized NCL engines. Planned to use as escorts/earlier class designs.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 07:02 pm: Edit

Thanks for the kind words.

I'd love to do some more of this "for real" for ADB some day.

By John Pepper (Akula) on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 04:43 pm: Edit

Just a note.
I saw that Jackill's is publishing new starship manuals again(www.jackill.com). I'm a fan of his format but not a huge one.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 08:45 pm: Edit

Some of his designs don't float my boat, but his books are indeed good. I've bought all of them.

By John Erwin Hacker (Godzillaking) on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 09:51 pm: Edit

I had the first 2 of his books until a flood in my basement apartment 3 years ago destroyed them. Yes indeed the were good but I haven't been able to find them anywhere. Anyone got a lead on where I can find them because his website doesn't offer them.

Thanks, John Hacker