John: The only venue I could suggest is eBay. I picked up a replacement for a damaged copy there myself.

By John Pepper (Akula) on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 10:51 am: Edit

He's redoing the series at the moment. He's going to do a couple A-Era books and then a couple of B-Era,C.... So it won't be the same as the first 3 he did, but it will include all those ships plus some. The first new A-Era one will be out by the end of the month.

By Todd Warnken (Toddw) on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 01:01 pm: Edit

I have one of his books I picked up used at a shop in Utah. For some reason it is autographed by Majel Barrett-Roddenberry.

By Neale Davidson (Vance) on Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 08:13 pm: Edit

There's a ton of ironies in there... GR was none too fond of fan material, as I remember.

Anyway, I guess my first question would be: what is this series supposed to be LIKE? Are we looking at a strict game manual (and therefore would need game-related statistics), or is it going for a Jane's Fighting Ships feel? Or, is it going for a FJ TM feel (which I have some experience in)?

http://www.pixelsagas.com/library/files/Jaynz_1.pdf is an example of a version I did based on the FRS series from Aridas Sofia. Basically a 'for fun' project which also compiles a bunch of my notes on things. It's not SFB, of course, though I threw in the Kirov (page 29), which may be the most relevant example. (And, yes, I'm aware of the Typo in Steve's name... gah!)

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 11:01 am: Edit

I would do it as "real data" (tonnage, that sort of thing) since the same ships are in so many different games. Including game data for SFB, F&E, FC, SFBF, GPD, PD20, PD6, and others would be a bit much.

Please understand that it's three weeks to Origins and I'm not going to be able to participate in any kind of serious discussion about this until I get back, and that it won't be the only serious discussion waiting for my return.

By Neale Davidson (Vance) on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 11:21 am: Edit

Steve - All right, then the only thing needed would be the gear layout of each ship type, and then let the player of each game 'convert' if he doesn't already have the material.

(Since the Kirov have phasers here, here, and here, the SSD should have... etc)

And, don't worry, I'm not trying to rush you or anything, I'm just getting stuff together. I've got GIGs of various starship stuff to sort through, after all.

I know you're more than busy with how much FC has taken off.

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 11:30 am: Edit

Neale: You could consult the minatures for weapons layouts; also, the R-modules have images of the ships with many of the weapons displayed.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 11:35 am: Edit

I actually HAVE scale drawings of virtually every ship, at least top views. (Just as Ted G has 3d models of virtually every ship.) I'm not saying that mine are good enough for a coffee table book (Ted's might be) but they could show a draftsman where to put weapons. (And the game design team of Steve & Steve would have the first and final say in those decisions anyway.) The more the merrier and (assuming we can get Ted to send them, he gets busy) including a dynamic 3d "off the bow" pose of each ship could improve the book. We've been wanting to do this for a long time (see Nexus #5) but could never find a draftsman who wanted to do that much work.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 12:09 pm: Edit

SVC -

I volunteered over a year ago and did my Fed-FF page as a pitch.

When this project heats up, I'm still volunteered (if you'll have me).

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 02:52 pm: Edit

If we ever get a chance to proceed with this, I suspect there will be enough to keep several people busy.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 09:51 pm: Edit

Neale,

"(Since the Kirov have phasers here, here, and here, the SSD should have... etc)"

Actually, it's more of "Since the SSD has phasers here, here, and here, the Kirov should have... etc)". Whatever you do, if it's going to be an OFFICAL product for SFU, then it MUST match the game, which starts with the SSD.


Garth L. Getgen

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 10:03 pm: Edit

Yes, the SSD is paramount.

The challenge is determining, in the case of the Feds, where the phasers go. In many case, I believe the side phasers are on top of the hull and the forward are under. However, I've seen where the forward phasers are on top (Ted Geible art). Go to the SFU site main page and click on "Online Resources". Since the Fed BCH has four phasers up front this art would indicate two on top and two under the saucer.


I've always thought the Fed should employ a duel emmiter system that runs through the saucer. One phaser unit with top and under emmiter points. This has never been the case though. Maybe in X2?

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 10:34 pm: Edit

Maybe it'll have to wait for a playtested 3D rules set?!?

By Sean Bartholome (Kana) on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 12:59 am: Edit

With any kind of 'real' data like tonnage and the like, it would be easy to convert said information into game form of the individual RPG books that detail Starship construction. So tonnage, if it gels with physics, would be great. Just ask Ken about how the tonnage changed from HH book to SITS.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 05:51 am: Edit

Garth: Your presence is requested in the Origins thread for Hurricane. Please drop by that thread and check in.

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 08:37 am: Edit

I wouldn't put too much faith in the SSD, though. It's more of a guideline than a rule. See the G1 Deck Plans, for example, which moved the disruptor from the main hull to the front of the boom. (Or the D5W, which has three engines and not four.)

edit: And the Skyhawk deck plans, which moved some things out of the module and into the main hull!

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 11:09 am: Edit

Michael is correct. The SSD is a good, general guide, but don't overdo it. It is, after all, an abstraction. (Otherwise, for example, the Gorns would actually have a left and a right engine.)

I will quibble with two of his examples, however.

It has long (i.e. well before Captain's edition) been established that the four tractors are not part of the module; they are part of the main hull. So that is more an issue of drawing an abiguous SSD, not a change from the SSD.

And the D5W has never had four engines (the ship description makes this clear). The center engine is just split for artistic purposes; it has always been a single engine.

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 12:09 pm: Edit

Mike: But that's exactly my point. If you looked at the SSD and only the SSD you would get the wrong idea of how the ship was put together.

By Neale Davidson (Vance) on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 12:18 pm: Edit

So.. never make it a habit to sleep with the possessed?

Another question would be, are the SSDs for SFB and FC significantly different other than appareance?

(Also, if I got an SSD which said 'phaser F/S', I would likely place it as FJ did, upper saucer, starboard side, etc... and try to stick as close to 'stock' placements as possible.)

And since I don't own FC yet (on the to-do list, but very hard to justify with no local payers), can someone shoot me a copy of the Kirov's SSD to look at?

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 12:22 pm: Edit

FC Squadron-Scale SSD are the same content as SFB SSD.

Basically, you just need someone to describe the miniatures to you (or, if you get on a contract to do this, perhaps SVC could send you some comp copies.) Otherwise it would be mass hysteria.

By Neale Davidson (Vance) on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 12:42 pm: Edit

Well, SVC is currently entangled in the hell known as 'pre-origins organization', so I understand he's not going to be doing a lot of response or discussion on this.

Right now, for me, I'm just looking at mockups and ideas, and waiting for a more formal project proposal later. There're a million ways to do this, so picking one which both serves the 'game community' as well as the 'Trek Starship' fan is going to be the primary issue.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 01:11 pm: Edit

I would say, Neale, that if you (or anybody else) wants to start on something, I can send you a PDF of the drawings I have. Shouldn't take five minutes a ship for me to do that, so it could be squeezed in before Origins.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 01:46 pm: Edit

Also, check the miniatures page on this site. There are coloring diagrams of many ships there.

By Neale Davidson (Vance) on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 01:48 pm: Edit

Sure thing, and it doesn't have to be PDF if that'll take time. Pretty much any raw bitmap-based file I can use as well. File size isn't an issue for me, either. (Just use my regular email addy, which I already gave you).

Tried to pick up the Federation Booster today, and someone bought both copies in my next-door store, dangit! well, good that it sold.. but... ya know...

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 03:28 pm: Edit

You could order it unless you'd rather generate the business support for your local game store and distrubution center.