This product could be "tossed together" from existing files quickly after Origins and then expanded in a second edition a year later to include new material and more data harvested from existing products.

This would put the data into the hands of the people who want it faster and would put us on a road to the eventually better second edition. Player input would be limiting to identifying lost items from published products, not making up new items.

The following existing documents could be incorporated into this Encyclopedia (although some might argue against some of them, feel free to do so).Others might suggest other things (existing documents more likely to make it into the first edition, newly created items more likely to wait for the second).

1. Timeline from GPD4e
2. List of ship names (registry)
3. Index of ship names including historical data.
4. SFB encyclopedia from CL15
5. Maps and planetary references from GPD4e
6. Class histories.

The following would probably not be included:
1. Ship Descriptions (these are in MSSB)

The following items are iffy either way
1. Rules indexes for SFB, F&E, FC
2. Travel data from GPD4e
3. Racial biological descriptions from GPD4e
4. Index of captain's log articles

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 03:33 pm: Edit

Did I mention that you guys are welcome to help identify existing documents (even new ones) that could be included?

By Neale Davidson (Vance) on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 03:37 pm: Edit

I would like the registry and historical data for each class kept into the ships' guide itself. Seems more relacent that way. The 'Guide to the Universe' would handle history, worlds, peoples, etc...

But that's just me.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 03:49 pm: Edit

I have SO long dreamed of this product! In fact, I think it was one of the first this I inquired about when I first joined the BBS.

Personally, I would like it to only include the items from the top list; a pure background data work.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 04:03 pm: Edit

I don't know if this would really work with this idea but to split up the Timeline into Years/Sections (Y167, Y168, Y185, etc) then have a 1 paragraph writeup of each scenario in each year.

Example,
Y181 SH16 (C1, Wyn and Lion) The Lyrans invade WYN Cluster, Kzinti reinforce the WYNs, Lyrans are defeated decisively and Kzintis withdraw back to Kzinti space.
Y181 SH206 (R7) The Romulans and Gorns clash together infront of the ISC. Romulans have a pyrhic victory and destroy ISC.
etc.....

This can then be "updated" yearly by adding another page to that year of any additional scenarios/background that has been added.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 04:27 pm: Edit

A lot of scenarios are already in the timeline.

I don't think that including the ship names hurts sales of the recognition manual that Neale and others want done.

The encyclopedia will sell to writers who want the data for reference. And they want it now, and they don't want to a wait a year for some coffee table art book they don't want anyway.

The recognition manual will sell to trekkers.

And of course, both will sell nicely to "current players who buy everything".

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 04:30 pm: Edit

I think this is a great idea. Thre's an INCREDIBLE amount of info and resources already out there (already published)that only needs to be gathered together.
regards
Stacy

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 05:15 pm: Edit

I think that adding too many things to the time line might be a problem. But if this project gets done the Master Scenario book would also be sort of a suplement (or vice versa) to it. If we think of these to publications together then it would be good to LIST scenarios by year somewhere.

I know this work has already been done. I've seen it on one of the SFB fan sites.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 08:21 pm: Edit

I would prefer if a bit more detail was added in the Encylopedia text (i.e., more than GPD4e). For example, the descriptions of most of the earlier wars are simply "started with xxx" and "ended with xxx" - some information about the ebb and flow of the wars would be handy, especially if accompanied by maps. If part of the scope of this product is to provide campaign info for RPG GMs, then having that kind of detail is really needed.

NOTES BY SVC: There really isn't any unpublished info, which means it would have to be created, and that doesn' t mean make something up, it means make something up which FITS and WORKS which is a certain amount of effort. Will not happen for the first edition; might for the second. I was not aware that this was wanted as a resource for RPG GMs since virtually all of them I have spoken to ignore the SFU timeline and just do whatever they want.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 08:43 pm: Edit

You know, a place with considerable data is F&E scenarios. They are not all that numerous but sometime have data not anywhere else.

The value of this product is growing in that it can put historical background data from several systems not readilly available to someone who doesn't own EVERYTHING. I own everything and having a single reference would be VERY nice.

NOTE BY SVC: I do think that there is a failing in the design level in that we DO subconciously assume all people have access to all data. I know that I have turned down several RPG "items" which contradicted data published in SFB and F&E.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 02:23 am: Edit

1) An update and reprint of the STAR FLEET UNIVERSE INDEX in CL16.

2) The R section descriptions of races and empires and the E(or F).0 preamble desriptions of how weapons work.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 02:41 am: Edit

A few articles which detail specific historical eras, such as the 'A Brief History of the General War' article as well as similar ones for other importartant eras or regions in the SFU (such as the Andromedan War, the Early Years, the Omega Octant wars and so forth)
Gary

NOTE BY SVC: I could see such things as A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE FOUR POWERS WAR, A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE SECOND FED-KZINTI WAR, A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE FIRST AND ONLY FED-GORN WAR, could be amusing reading.

By Jack Andre Bohn (Jbohn) on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 10:41 am: Edit

One class history that may have been overlooked because it was done (or, at least, published) so long before the others is the Federation Strike Carriers from 'round about CL #11 (the "Fighters Inbound!" issue).

NOTE BY SVC: We all remember this article and if class histories are to be included it won't get forgotten.

The Timeline is a puzzler, with detail ranging from the short one in the Basic Set to "A brief History of the General War." How to make it useful both for finding when Zinti added a fast-speed upgrade to type III drones and the story of Lyrans occupying Hydran territory?
Leaving aside the idea of going electronic, I'd like to borrow an idea from Douglas R. Hofstader (Godel, Escher, Bach; Metamagical Themas) and his tables of contents in varying levels of detail. Have the detailed timeline divided into sections, each begining on a new page with its own header. (The most obvious division would be the various wars and inter-war periods, so I'll say decades, just to be bizarre.) The least detailed timeline/overview/table of contents is a listing of these headers with a paragraph of explanation. The seperate technology timeline, timeline of scenarios, and others are divided into the same sections by the same headers, this time in black bars, like in the rulebook. That way they act as an index into the detailed timeline, and index into each other.

NOTES BY SVC: One thing I thought was we might have one big long intensive detailed timeline listing every bit of information from all sources. Then have a one-page "grid" showing wars and technology innovations.

How many individuals do you have enough information on to construct biographical entries?

NOTES BY SVC: Not many.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 12:15 pm: Edit

I have edited by notes into the above messages so that I don't have to match them up after Origins.

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 12:39 pm: Edit

SVC,

Could you include which F&E sector the various battles, events etc. take place in? I know that some are obvious but some (few/several?) are not.

ExampleS:

Gurps Klingon 4E, page 101. C7 Fear badly damaged at Bellafaik III. Where is Bellafaik III?

The Gurps Klingon 4E write-up for the C7s Pestilence and Pain indicate the the Klingon's used these ships on the Federation front to command mobile defense fleets following the collapse of the Klingon frontier defenses in Y183 (I don't think this is in the current GW history).

By Neale Davidson (Vance) on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 12:48 pm: Edit

Quick SRM Status Note - CA, DN, NCL, BC lists and schematics together. Didn't have too much chance to get the others going, hopefully starting this weekend.

SVC - I would like to get a couple of people for feedback on this without just popping the WIP as an open download (for obvious reasons). Anyone you can suggest?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Can we talk after Origins? It will keep until then. Also, SRM should be in LFS not here.

By Neale Davidson (Vance) on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 03:55 pm: Edit

LFS? ..I'll look after this weekend. And, yeah, it could keep - but I admit that the 'fan interest' seems like its going to railroad me. :P

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 04:18 pm: Edit

So from what you are saying, the 'A Brief History of...' series of articles would have to wait until a volume 2, as only old materiél would be in the first set?

Seems fair - plus it gives time for those who want to give such a story to not have to rush it.

I would say that for those who want to create new background material (either by writing a new piece of fiction for SFB, PD etc) this kind of book would be invaluable.


Gary

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 04:23 pm: Edit

Steve
How about an article which tells a bit more about how you came up with SFB in the first place? Give it a "personal" touch.
regards
Stacy

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 04:42 pm: Edit

And one thing about background material:

I wouldn't necessarily want all of the 'A Brief History of...' articles to be tied to specific wars and conflicts - there are missions of exploration, the debates which surface and abate within societies (in the Federation and ISC, at least) and other such areas can be explored.

One of the major put-offs I encounter from Trek fans is that they see the SFU as far too militaristic for their tastes. Of course, the nature of most of the SFU games does gear much of the background development towards such conflicts, and Prime Directive does a lot to show the rest of what the universe has to offer, but a lot of the fluff out there is geared towards war.

I find that when I try and discuss the SFU at places like the TrekBBS, this is seen as a disservice to a series which put much of its stall in the themes of exploring 'strange new worlds' and examining the human - and alien - condition in the background of the UFP.

A product which includes scope for the eras of exploration and peace, alongside the major wars of the setting, would be quite nice inceed!

For example, one story could be 'A brief history of the Middle Years' which could go into the economic, social and political developments in the UFP and elsewhere, starting with the era of coreward exploration leading to the loss of Aurora, detailing the charting of thousands of star systems within the Trusteeship Territory, looking at observations and inadvertent contact with pre-warp races (or perhaps deliberate, as the tansions between Cygnan beliefs and the Prime Directive would come to the fore), describing the integration of various new races into the tapestry of the UFP and perhaps following the missions of a few specific starships of the era into the unknown...

I would imagine that such a piece would be quite relevant to PD fans, and those coming into the SFU from a Trek background, who want to see more than incessant conflict in the setting.

After all, this is marked as a book for the Star Fleet Universe, not just Star Fleet Battles!


Gary

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 05:28 pm: Edit

I thought everybody knew how I came up with SFB.

I was in my college dorm room in 1975, playing the Avalon Hill game JUTLAND while watching star trek re-runs.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 06:50 pm: Edit

That was a short article!


Anyway, Gary Carney. I suspect you are right about how Trek fans feel I just see some irony in it that most Trek episode involve serious conflict. DS9 wasn't highly praised until it became largely about the Dominion War. Many of the top Star Trek:TOS episodes involve either Romulans or Klingons on the verge of war. TNG didn't deal with war much but again some of the popular episodes are Yesterdays Enterprise and others involving war issues.

I think most Trekkers enjoy their war stories as must as most people.

That said, I agree that the SFU could use more of a fair share of "Peacefull Exploration" background stuff for use in PD. It can only make the universe a richer place to play.

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 07:08 pm: Edit

Uh..Steve-I had in mind you fleshing it out a bit. You know what episodes you were watching...maybe. How long until it reached it's inititial published form-you know FOLKSY stuff. You engineers suck the juice out of everything!
regards
Stacy

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 07:15 pm: Edit

I don't remember that far back.