SVC
What generated the eps files? I know Illustrator can edit it's own EPS files (That's relatively new by the way in the old days it couldn't)perhaps Freehand can do the same. In any case if you're able to do it I'd like to know how as it's valuable info for me. If I had a dime for every time I had to do insane things to work around an eps graphic that was "flat" and uneditable...
regards
Stacy

Loren
I live currently in WV.

regards
Stacy

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 01:25 pm: Edit

I generate and edit them in Freehand.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 01:31 pm: Edit

Stacy,

so I guess you can't come over and give me FH lessons...

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 01:50 pm: Edit

SVC
OK well that explains it. Looks like FH started doing teh same thing Illustrator did with eps files-embedding the vector information within it. However all EPS files are not created equal. I'm not familiar with the program that Neale is using (I don't even think there's a Mac version) but the major question is what export options it has. It may even be able to export as an Illustrator or FH file. If it CAN (either one) you have what you need vis-a-vis editing them. Or if the file format that Loren mentions works.

Loren
While I hope to make a trip out to California sometime this year and would be glad to drop by I'm not sure how much help I could be with FH. While I use it and Illustrator both I use them for limited purposes so my knowledge of both is somewhat limited-although I am working to broaden my knowledge of those and other programs.
regards
Stacy

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 02:09 pm: Edit

I need to be able to draw with it and the vector thing... well it's not freehand work it's vector. Pencil and Paper is freehand. But I chose Freehand because that's what SVC uses and I want to do interior art and design for ADB (I have a bunch of ground vehicle designs SVC mostly likes but right now I'll I can send him are bitmaps formats. They don't scale well.

Let me know, I'll take you to lunch. We've got a few neat places here in Burbank.

====================================
Paint Shop Pro is pretty good. It's a strong middle class paint program with a good price. Anyone wanting to go several steps up from MS Paint for cheep would be making a good choice.

I have Painter and Photoshop so there is no reason I'd go there.

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 05:57 pm: Edit

Loren
The advantage of Vector over Photoshop is basically an infinity of scale (or nearly so) without distortion. And since you comment on Freehand it's almost a misnomer for the program as most people don't even USE the freehand tool.

Myself I have been moving away from Freehand toward Illustrator largely because of a lot of changes in ownership in Freehand's parent company over the last decade. Wheras it used to be that 3rd party plug ins were available for both programs that is less true now (Although I just checked and Adobe owns Macromedia now and by extension Freehand which means they own BOTH major vector programs. Which means one or the other will probably go away).

Most true freehand work done on computer is done with graphics tablet and in Photoshop or similar program.

Mostly what I have done with both those programs is taking scanned art which I have vectorized and manipulating it within the program. In short I've only scratched the surface of the full potential of these programs—but this has largely been driven by the nature of my tasks.

regards
Stacy

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 07:07 pm: Edit

Yup, got me an Intuos3 6x9... love it.

I'll bet an hours lesson, in person with someone who knows the program can piece together what I do know into something that can start me on a good work patern.

And yeah, that why I do want ot learn to do vector art so that SVC can easilly scale my drawings. A couple years back I designed the floor plan for the Klingon GCV for use in PD. It was pretty neat and SVC liked it, although it was don't in MS Paint and not usable nor clean enough for print. But in Freehand I wouldn't be wasting my time and I could make some much more cool.

I do find it funny that Freehand is now owned by Adobe. I'd encurage SVC to go to Illustrator except that it's not cheap and would take time to learn when he already knows Freehand and it serves him fine. So, when I got the oppertunity to get Freehand MX at the competative upgrade price (because I had an old copy of Corel Draw Suite) for $140.00 I got it.

And Freehand classes are unreasonably expensive (and far).

By John Pepper (Akula) on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 08:45 pm: Edit

Loren: I have been meaning to ask you if you had any new thoughts on the exterior designs of the new DD's from CL33, I remember you did the original Deck House Destroyer back in the Heavy Destroyers thread.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 11:41 pm: Edit

Well, I posted some ideas about how such a unit could be possible. It was mainly to try and help prove the theory of the Deck House DD, and its capabilities and limitations.

I have a look at them and see what comes up.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 12:09 am: Edit

John Pepper:

I would try to design something that extended the second and third decks out (but behind the bridge) to starbord and port to just back from the phasers (so they maintain the LS/RS arcs) then back along the hull but the SSD limits the side phasers so aparently the deckhouse extends all the way out to the hull edge.

Given the amount of internals this seems about right.

I'm suprised the shuttles in the main hull were kept. I would have like to see those converted and just leave the thing with two shuttles. But then this isn't the DHD critique section.

Maybe I'll post a graphic later.

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 12:13 am: Edit

Loren
On your GCV you could import it into Freehand and use it as a template layer and using Freehand in an overlay layer—duplicate it. That way your work would not have gone to waste. You can either delete the template layer prior to print or making PDF—OR you can set it for non-print (Which wouldn't help in PDF). This would give you the scaling option you want. You may find your tablet an assist in this.

If by some chance you can't save or export it in a format Freehand likes the taste of then print it, scan and save it in a format that it DOES like and do the same thing as the direct mode.

I did this very tactic once on a map I needed to duplicate. It was a hand drawn affair and it was a xerox of a xerox ad-infinitum so it was getting pretty grungy. Using it as a template I was able to do something in about an hour that might have taken days from scratch.

I'm surprised that you can't find a Freehand class close at hand in California. One of the reasons I am thinking of visiting California is to investigate a number of CGI courses being offered there. If I might make a suggestion if you can't find a Freehand course take an Illustrator course. Much of it applies in both. The important thing is learning to THINK in "vector-thought". Which is significantly different from pencil and pen and paper.

regards
Stacy

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 01:02 am: Edit

Yes, the thing is that somehting 30 miles away in LA is... well, a long way. Not because we're lazy but because of traffic.

There is a LOT of training available and I've even tried using Lynda.com with is normally tops but the Freehand lessons are only OK. I'll eventually get it but it would be SO much easier to just get a live person to push me through the first stage.

And like I said, such classes are expensive. Like hundreds of dollars for one day. I don't need expert training. I need a friend to show me how to connect lines and file and make shapes that look like something. But lessons usually assume you know how to draw vector and and spend more time teaching how to manage files and how to arrange your friggin workspace etc., etc.

I like someone to walk me through drawing a car and get it into print. I can fly from there.

I dunno, the more I talk about it the dumber I feel. I guess I need to just trudge through the help files and wade through the books. It just seems like I can spend untold hours doing that a one or two with a real person.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 01:03 am: Edit

Anyway, maybe we should talk about this via e-mail?

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 01:10 am: Edit

Loren
Feel free to contact me via e-mail. And don't feel bad about feeling "dumb" the more you learn about vector graphics. That's actually a GOOD thing in any field of study. It means you realize the full potential of what you are studying is larger than you suspected-which is in itself learning something. The FULL potential of ANY graphics program is mind boggling. I even used to wrest things out of SuperPaint that would boggle your mind. I'm not sure I can help you as much as you'd like but I'll be glad to share whatever I know.
regards
Stacy

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 02:00 pm: Edit

- Moving this here from the Decals For Miniatures thread -

If Leanna's Fighting Starships gets published someday, it might be fun to add some flavor text to address the "missing number" in the Dreadnought listing in the FJS Tech Manual.
My proposed flavor text -


NCC-2105 was planned as the sixth Federation-class Dreadnought, but was never completed.

During initial assembly, her engineering hull was severely damaged by a collision with an errant orbital barge that escaped from a yard tug. Damage assessments showed repairs to the spaceframe would not be cost-effective and the hull was removed and scrapped for raw materials.

After repairs to the shipyard, construction was begun on the next engineering hull in the program (intended for Dreadnought #7).

Unlike the unfortunate engineering hull, the saucer primary hull for NCC-2105 was completed and ended up being mated to the engineering hull and engine set originally intended for Dreadnought #7. She was christened U.S.S. Konkordium NCC-2106.

Ironically, the barge that destroyed NCC-2105's engineering hull was carrying structural members that would later become the Heavy Cruiser U.S.S Wasp NCC-1721.

An intense rivalry developed between the engineering departments of the two ships and lasted throughout their careers, mainly stemming from enmity for the Wasp from the Konkordium's engineers. This animosity was reinforced by something of an initiation ritual among engineering staff aboard Konkordium, where new staff would be taken into the central services throughbay and shown the "NCC-2105" yard-marks engraved into the keyframes of the primary hull.

"Always remember what that bug-ship did to 'Big-lady K'" was a mantra among her engineers.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 03:51 pm: Edit

It would be interesting if the Konkordium ended up having to surrender in the face of an ISC Pacification force, and getting towed back to Veltrassa afterwards...

...The Konkordium, in the care of the Concordium!


Gary

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 07:02 pm: Edit

Be even better if the ISC equipped it with PPD's, and then the Federation captured it again and used against the Andromedans.

That way the Pacified Kondordium, Processed by the Concordium then PPD'ed the Andromedans in the Unity of the Federation operation!

By Neale Davidson (Vance) on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 02:48 pm: Edit

Just checking in to see what progress has come along. I know that all the FC product has taken over the production time...

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 03:03 pm: Edit

Neale: I've been sending you Emails once a month for six or eight months without getting an answer from you (after I gave up sending an Email every week without getting an answer from you). Basically, nothing has happened because I'm waiting for you and wondering why you never answered me.

By Neale Davidson (Vance) on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 03:15 pm: Edit

That's odd. I replied to everything I got - but the last month I've been moving and somewhat out of touch. I've got no explanation at all as to why you didn't hear from me.

The last thing I got from you was about some other issues which was causing a delay on your end. I just assumed (yes, I know, 'ass u me') that things were still hectic for you.

By Neale Davidson (Vance) on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 03:21 pm: Edit

SVC: Further stuff...

I'm actually in a 'downtime' for projects, so this is a great opportunity to get things out of the way. I'm going to get the basic Starfleet registrar done by the end of the weekend, and send it along to you.

If eMail is failing for some reason (possible spam block?), you can contact me via ICQ, Yahoo, AIM, or MSN - whichever works best for you.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 04:30 pm: Edit

Yeah, I got past that stuff, Neale, and started Emailing you and got no answers. When I get to the end of this week's list I'll see if I can find the original questions.

I have no idea what ICQ and that other stuff is and don't use it. I just send Email and keep track of who hasn't answered me.

By Neale Davidson (Vance) on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 06:57 pm: Edit

Well, it was my fault. After I had to reinstall Windows a couple of months ago due to a virus, the new 'security measures' were uber-tight. Looks like it killed a lot of things as spam that it shouldn't have. Please accept very sincere apologies.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 02:38 pm: Edit

Neale: don't worry about it. Technology isn't perfect and I should have tried harder to find a way to contact you.

By Neale Davidson (Vance) on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 02:42 pm: Edit

It's all right, you've been swamped and this has been a back-burner project for a bit. We can hug later if you like.

What I need at this point is to go through the various ship classes and figure out which hull types go to what. (Saladin Type for DD DE etc, Kirov Type, etc)...