Translation from Gary-Speak: "I don't think a stripped-down SFB/FC is the best way to do sublight battles."

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 10:54 pm: Edit

Douglas, I can tell you it won't have anything to do with diapers!

The Dawn of Warp?
In the Beginning?

Let me think on it.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 12:37 am: Edit

Impulse Battles.

(If its a quicker playing game with less rules then you can play it on an impulse!)

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 12:50 am: Edit

Impulse Space Battles!

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 12:53 am: Edit

First Contacts?

First Step Into Space?

United Earth and New Friends?


Garth L. Getgen

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 12:57 am: Edit

None of those imply any shooting going on. And there will be.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 01:13 am: Edit

First Contacts & Conflicts?


Garth L. Getgen

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 01:33 am: Edit

How about Battle of Ironclads, in honour of the Battle of Hampton Roads - the first meeting in battle of ironclad warships on pre-spaceflight Earth - and as a nod to the armorclad nature of (most) star navies in this era.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 03:09 am: Edit

You need something that ties to trek.

Federation Commander: Klingon Border

is the perfect title for a game as it tells you it's trek.

Something like FIRST ROMULAN WAR would be tied to trek.

By Kosta Michalopoulos (Kosmic) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 08:04 am: Edit

Romulus Rising?

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 12:39 pm: Edit

Rise of the Klingon Empire?


Garth L. Getgen

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 12:40 pm: Edit

Final Frontier.

Or is that being used?

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 12:45 pm: Edit

In that case, perhaps Federation Ironclads: First Romulan Wars?

(I say "Federation" rather than "Star Fleet", since only the former existed at this point in time. "Wars" in plural is intended to cover both the Fed-Romulan and Gorn-Romulan conflicts of the era.)

Later books could have their own equivalent headings:

*Federation Ironclads: First Klingon Wars (for the western powers)
*Federation Ironclads: Resource World Wars (for the pre-ISC)

And so on.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 12:46 pm: Edit

Timeline extract-

THE STAR FLEET UNIVERSE TIMELINE
Copyright (c) 1985-2007 Amarillo Design Bureau, Inc. Revised 12 April 2007.
Y1 First contact between Humans and a neighboring race (the Vulcans) as the Humans develop what will be
known as Non-Tactical Warp. The Vulcans are already in contact with other space-faring races in
the immediate vicinity (Andorian, Rigellian).
Y2 (Date Approximate) Klingons build chemical-energy rocket boosters and primitive space capsules, and
use these to reach the obsolete ships left in their system by the Old Kings. Within a few years, the
Klingons have been able to make some of the old ships operational.
Y4 The Federation is formed by the Humans, Vulcans, Andorians, Alpha-Centaurans, Rigellians, and others.
While it is not clear exactly when each of the other races began expanding into space, it can be
reasonably assumed that (with the exception of the Vulcans) they began their expansion during
about this same time period.
Y5 Tractor beams enter service in the Federation. Other races develop them about the same time.
Y8 Klingons, using star maps drawn by the last of the Klingons who served on ships of the Old Kings,
contact the first of the other Old King subject worlds (the Dunkars) and begin to use them as
subject race crewmen, just as the Old Kings had used both races.
Y9 The Romulan Senate elects Crosus, a nephew of Emperor Maximus, as Proconsul and defacto emperor.
Y10 Klingons recontact the Vergarians, another Old King subject race, and quickly dominate them.
Y11 The Romulan Senate is moving to make Crosus permanent proconsul and heir to Maximus when
Crosus dies under mysterious circumstances and is widely thought to have been murdered by
allies of Austian, the son and heir-apparent to Maximus.
Y12 After an unsuccessful fleet-wide mutiny by Vergarian crewmen, the Klingons execute all Vergarians on
their ships, bombard Vergar (reducing it to the stone age), and install security stations on all ships
to prevent any further mutiny. Vergarians are not allowed into space for decades, and the planet is
forced to pay huge tributes to the Empire. Klingon Emperor Belak-Kyn, knowing what must be done
to the Vergarians but unable to bring himself to do it, becomes one of very few Klingon Emperors to
retire voluntarily.
Austian becomes the fifth Romulan Emperor. Vain and cruel, he accomplishes little.
Y17 The Klingons are able to reverse-engineer the abandoned ships and produce their own primitive
starships. Unlike the Old King ships the Klingons inherited, the new ships are patterned on a
predatory marine reptile found in the oceans of the Klingon homeworld.
Y21 The Federation encounters the Orions, a smaller star-faring culture on their border. The Orions quickly
set up trade relations.
Y24 Gorns and Paravians first meet. Early discussions quickly determine that neither race is native to its
home planet, but had been brought there at some point in the ancient past. The Paravians, it is
found, are the successors to a Gorn-like race that had been destroyed by an asteroid. War breaks
out by Y30; the conflict lasts for decades at a relatively low level. As with most conflict in this
period, lasers and atomic missiles are the predominant weapons.
Y33 First Gorn-Romulan contact. Relations are tense as both sides almost automatically assume that war
between them is inevitable.
Y36 First Gorn-Romulan War begins. They begin to develop the first of what will become permanent
borders. The Gorns lose this war in Y39 at the Battle of Gorn-Shima, but Gorn-Romulan skirmishes
and raids continue indefinitely.
Y38 First Lyran-Klingon War begins. While few details are known, it is clear that both have been expanding
for some time from their respective homeworlds (now imperial capitals). While these expansions
were not at the same rate in each direction, this was the first contact either race had with a militarycapable
spacefaring race. (If either race previously encountered any minor planet-bound races, it
presumably absorbed and/or enslaved them.)
Y39 The Klingons and Lyrans, each trying to outflank the other, expand their “front line” (eventually to be
their border) toward the core and rim.
Romulan Proconsul Karzan politically maneuvers Emperor Austian into firing the competent Praetor
Solfronk, taking that post for himself.
Y40 First Federation-Romulan War begins as the ex-Vulcans (now the Romulans) begin what they see as a
historic march back to their original home planet. The Federation fleet uses a variety of weapons,
as each planet has built its own ships. During this War, the Romulans and Federation never
actually meet face to face, and the Federation did not realize that the Romulans were the long-lost
Vulcan renegades. The War was engineered by Praetor Karzan.
Lyrans, trying to outflank the Klingons, attack what they believe is a Klingon mining colony. The outpost
is, instead, from the Hydrans, a race not previously known, starting the First Lyran-Hydran War.
The Hydrans had been expanding from their own homeworld, which is now the Royal Capital.
Y42 Lyran-Klingon War ends when several Lyran counties abandon the war to protect their homes from the
Hydrans. Lyrans are forced to accept an unfavorable settlement.
Y43 Lyrans defeat Hydran invasion, but reach negotiated settlement rather than continue the war. First
Lyran-Hydran War ends.
Y44 Gorns battle a mysterious ship which they later learn is a time-traveling Federation cruiser.
Y45 A treaty between the Federation and the Orions effectively brings the Orions into the Federation, albeit
preserving some legal semblance of a semiautonomous zone. This language, all but forgotten over
the years, will come back to haunt the Federation 126 years later when the Orions invoke a clause
of the treaty to become independent and neutral.
Y46 First Federation-Romulan War ends with a cease-fire; Orion support for the war effort has given the
Federation a major advantage. Because of the Romulan threat in this direction, the Federation
develops more rapidly in its “southeast” area as the need for fleet support infrastructure drives the
creation of colonies and bases. Praetor Karzan is humiliated and forced to resign in Y47 as the
scapegoat for the unsuccessful war.
Y48 Lyrans, trying to outflank the Klingons by moving around the (then unoccupied) WYN cluster, run into
the previously unknown Kzintis. The first Lyran-Kzinti War breaks out almost immediately and ends
eight years later (Y56) with both races suffering devastation of their thinly settled worlds in the
region.
Y50 First Klingo-Kzinti War begins as the Klingons, unaware that the Lyrans are fighting the Kzintis, also
encounter this new foe. The Kzintis are confused by the attack, and assume that this is the second
prong of a joint invasion by the “allied” Klingon and Lyran forces. The Kzintis do not learn until
many years later that the Klingons and Lyrans were bitter enemies at this point in time.
Romulans deploy the Vulture-class dreadnought, their largest ship until the later Condor.
Y55 First known contact between the Kzintis and Carnivons (a canine race), and between the Lyrans and
the Carnivons. Some earlier contacts may have occurred, but if so the Kzinti or Lyran ships did not
survive to report. The Lyrans and Kzintis are, apparently, both trying to outflank the other when
they encounter the new foe.
Y56 The First Kzinti-Lyran War ends. The Carnivons begin attacking both felinoid races, taking advantage of
their exhausted forces in the region.
Y58 Ruvellus becomes the sixth Romulan Emperor. Ineffectual and not all that intelligent, he vacillates
between opposing courses of action (and opposing political factors), leaving the Empire rudderless.
Y60 Klingon Prince Kraw becomes emperor, and brings new technologies into the fleet.

Have to look at what changes where made to this by the Y Modules and any products that came out after this was last updated in 2007.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 12:50 pm: Edit

Original sub-light scenario- (SNO.O) SCENARIOS FROM NEXUS MAGAZINE
(SN1.0) THE TIME WARP
(Y164) by Graeme Cree, Texas
In Y164 the Federation Command Cruiser Kongo, commanded
by Fleet Captain Phillip Kosnett, disappeared in an area of space near
the Tholian border. The ship had blundered into a spatial distortion that
threw it 5,000 parsecs away and 120 years into the past.
Rapid calculations showed that the time warp would “snap back”
in about 30 hours and return them to their original location. That 30
hours was to prove to be a long wait, however, because the G o m battle
fleet quickly surrounded the Kongo and began to close in.
(SN1.1) N U M B E R OF PLAYERS: 2; one player commands the
Federation cruiser, the other the G o m fleet.
(SN1.2) INITIAL SET UP: Place a planet counter in hex 2120 to
represent the location of the time warp. Place one Federation CC in
any hex within 6 of the warp. Place 4 G o m sublight battleships and 7
Gorn sublight destroyers in hexes on any map edge. See (QR6.0).
(SN1.3) LENGTH OF SCENARIO: At the start of each turn, the
Federation player rolls one die, recording the result. When the total
results equal 100 or more, the warp is open for that turn only. The ship
can (by moving into that hex) return to its own time and space (ending
the scenario). If the Kongo fails to enter the time warp on the turn it is
open, the die roll process begins again, with the warp opening (for one
turn) each time the total equals or exceeds 50. If the Kongo is
destroyed or captured, the scenario is over immediately.
(SN1.4) SPECIAL RULES
(SN1.41) Use a fixed map. Any G o m ship that leaves the map has
disengaged and cannot return. If the Kongo moves more than six
hexes from the time warp, it automatically loses the scenario.
(SN1.42) No shuttles have warp booster packs. No PFs or drones are
used in the basic scenario. The CC has no refits.
(SN1.43) This is a sublight scenario. Use the sublight game rules. Your
engineers, however, have adjusted all of your weapons so that, for
purposes of this scenario, they will function at the stated ranges. Thus,
for this scenario, a hex will be equal to a hex, even though a hex in the
normal game is equal to 20 hexes in this scenario. The Kongocan only
move by impulse power, using the sublight rules. One unit of impulse
power provides a speed of 1-3, two units provide a speed of 4-6. The
warp engines can be operated for power but not movement, since they
would damage the time warp.
(SN1.44) The Kongo must use non-violent combat. No ship can selfdestruct.
The Kongo cannot use mines or transporter bombs.
(SN1.4S) If drones are used (in the alternatives below), they must be
modified to sublight velocity (your engineers will do this for you, no
need to worry about it) so that the warp power won’t damage the warp.
(SN1.46) The Gorns, wary of Romulan tricks (and having never met
the Feds), will not communicate with or negotiate with the Kongo.
(SN1.5) VICTORY CONDITIONS: If the Kongo escapes through the
warp, the Federation player wins. If it is destroyed, the Federation
player loses. If the Gorns capture any ‘future’ crew units (perhaps unrecovered
boarding parties), the ship itself, or a shuttlecraft, the effect of
the new technology creates an entirely new future. The Kongo, trying
to return to a future that no longer exists, is trapped in limbo forever.
(SN1.6) VARIATIONS: When Kosnett returned and reported the
incident, G o m historians began searching their records. It appears
likely from these records that Klingon, Tholian, and Romulan ships
have, on several occasions, passed through these time warps and
done battle with G o m and Romulan sublight ships (thus suggesting
several alternative scenarios). These other races would have no
reason to use non-violent combat. Unconfirmed reports exist of a
Klingon frigate found wrecked on an asteroid in Romulan space. While
the wreck was found in Y162, it was at least a century old.
(SN1.7) BALANCE: This scenario can be balanced by reducing the
number of Gorn ships or increasing the distance that the Kongo is
allowed to move from the time warp hex.
(SN1.8) TACTICS: The Goms should keep their ships together to concentrate
their firepower. Stay close to the warp hex to keep the target
in range. The Kongo has only four WWs._____________________
SUB-LIGHT SSD: Players may find SSD sheets for 11 G o m ships a
bit unhandy. If so, you may find it easier to use a typed SSD.
The numbers are checked off from right to left, with the highest
unchecked number indicating the rating. The lasers are designated
individually by their firing arcs.
G O R N SUBLIGHT BATTLESHIP #
Armor 2 3 4 5
Bridge 2
Aux Con
Emer Br
Lab 2 3 4 5
Shuttle 2 3 4 5
Missiles 2 3 4
Lasers L+RA L LS FA+L FA
R+RA R RS FA+R
APR 1 2
Battery 1 2 3 4 5
Impulse 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4
F Hull 1 2 3 4
R Hull 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Sensor 0 2 3 5 6 6
Scanner 9 4 2 1 0 0
Dam Con 0 2 2 2 4 4
Ex Dam 1 2 3 4 5 6
G O R N SUBLIGHT DESTROYER #
Armor 1 2 3 4 5
Bridge 1
Emer Br 1
Lab 1 2
Shuttle 1 2 3 4
Missiles 1 2
Lasers LS FX RS
APR 1 2
Battery 1
Impulse 1 1 2 2
F Hull 1 2
R Hull 1 2 3 4 5 6
Sensor 0 1 4 6 6
Scanner 9 5 1 0 0
Dam Con 0 2 2 2 4
Ex Dam 1 2 3 4 5
This scenario originally appeared in Nexus #1 as (500.0).

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 12:52 pm: Edit

One detail missing from the above timeline is the info on the pre-ISC territories, as detailed in Module Y2.

(That corner of space may not be first - or even second - on the list of regions to be developed. But it may still be worth noting if offering a broader sense of the TL 9 era in the Alpha Octant as a whole.)


I'm not sure if "time travel" scenarios like the one above, or the old SSDs done up to support them, ought to be too high on the list of priorities, in terms of playtesting or developing the era. Now that we have a better sense of what Terran (and other) ships were in service in that era, it may be worth setting some of the older provisional SSDs and scenarios to one side, and focusing instead on statting up ships derived from the hulls in the Y-modules - and pitting them against each other in the kind of battles they would have been more liable to fight during this time period.

Once the "native" ships of this era work well (in whatever game system is to be selected), it may then be easier to offer time-travel and other such scenarios.

(I suppose if you really want to be unfair, you could point out that the Jindarians had TL 12 throughout this era. But then, just how long did it take for the sedentary empires to even realise the Caravans were actually out there?)

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 12:52 pm: Edit

Link to the old sublight rules and some of the possible ships http://www.starfleetgames.com/sublight.shtml

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 01:18 pm: Edit

From SFB DE Expansion #1-
(132.01 GORN-SHIMA)
The decisive battle of the first Gorn-Romulan War (36-39), Gorn-Shima (as Federation Historians
have since named it), was the climax of the Gorn attempt to hold onto the Algonex
system, which the Romulans had surrounded and cut off early in the war. The main Gorn
Battle Fleet, under Admiral S'Teken, attempted to crash through the Romulan blockade.
(132.1) NUMBER OF PLAYERS: 2
(132.2) INITIAL SET UP:
Three Gorn Battleships, deploy one each in hexes 0101,0201, 0302.
Six Romulan Warbirds, deploy one each in hexes 0822, 0923, 1023, 2604, 2605, and
2606. (This scenario can be "balanced to taste" by adding or subtracting Warbirds.)
Heading and speed are at the choice of the owning player.
(132.3) LENGTH OF SCENARIO: Play continues until one player has no ships remaining on the
mapsheet.
(132.4) SPECIAL RULES:
(132.41) Use the Sub-light game (VII). This is a sub-light scenario. The Warbirds are to be
modified as shown.
(132.42) The Gorn ships are attempting to break through a blockade. They will gain victory
points by exiting the map along the edge within five hexes of hex 4232.
(132.43) Ships of either player may leave the scenario by exiting the map. Any ship exiting the
map is not destroyed, but it cannot return. Only Gorn ships exiting in the specified area score
bonus victory points.
(132.5) VICTORY CONDITIONS: Use the Basic Victory Point system from (45.7), but assign
the Gorn Battleships a BPV of 20 and the Romulan Warbirds a BPV of 10 for purposes of this
scenario only. The Gorns receive additional victory points for ships breaking the blockade as
follows:
If the ship is undamaged = 200% BPV
If the ship is not crippled = 100% BPV
If the ship is crippled = 50% BPV
The Player with the most points wins.
TACTICAL HINTS: The Gorns should move boldly and positively against one of the
two Romulan forces immediately, attempting to destroy it before the other force can engage.
The Romulans should attempt to unite their forces, but keep between the Gorns and their
goal.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 01:33 pm: Edit

I agree that anything for a module Q has to look at all the material that has been published in the Y modules and even if all of the published early Q material get thrown out a window it deserves to at least be looked at.

That being said does module Y4 need to be finished and published before a module Q is done? Was Module Y4 going to fill in any gaps in ships or technology or history that will need to be fleshed out so as not to contradict with a possible future Module Q?

Speeds of ships and scale- It looks like the early years ships fought at up to speed 16, then 24 and finally a modern max of 31 as the technology progressed. IN the sublight game as done earlier the scale was different where a ship used two points of impulse to produce a speed of up to six hexes of movement. Atomic missiles could move two hexes an impulse and 12 hexes per turn. The scale was such that a ship moving at a speed of twenty (impossible under the rules) would be at a speed of one hex per turn in SFB. Should the smaller scale be kept? Terrain would be a little more interesting, for example the standard class "M" planet form SFB would be six hexes across instead of being contained in a single hex. With the slow speeds involved would this make a difference in play?

Empires- The Y module added many new ships to the game including ships for the ISC and Federation Member races. Will earlier versions of these ships add more variety to the sublight game while fleshing out the history of this era?

Weapons, in the rules as written the ships in the sublight game had either lasers which produce one point of damage or Atomic missiles which produce four points of damage. What new weapons from the Y era could be downgraded, then added and used in the game?

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 01:53 pm: Edit

In terms of scale (for whichever game engine is to be used), I'd like it to be set so that one turn of movement equalled one hex in SFB or FC terms. However hexes (or inches or centimetres) that would end up being, I'm not so sure about.

In any case, that scaling would oblige a ship to take several turns to orbit a class-M planet, and much longer if orbiting a gas giant. (I could see things getting very interesting when looking at the intricacies of a Jovian system with moons and rings surrounding it.)


As for weapons, the Paravians are said to have had quantum blasters on their Q-hulls, which they replaced with quantum cannons prior to the eventual switch to QWTs.

Plus the Vulcans (seemingly) had phaser-1s and special sensors even in this era, which might make their ships particularly challenging to account for.


I'm not sure if "downgrading" from warp-class weapons might be the best approach. I would prefer that most of the later weapons were kept as innovations made possible by the onset of antimatter-based tactical warp drive.

Instead, there may be an opportunity to add a whole new range of sublight weapon types, which may or may not have worked well at the time, but which would have been discarded once the new warp-class weaponry came online.

That might give the empires of this era a very different set of tactics to use than people may be used to in the era of tactical warp - but that in and of itself could be part of what makes this era so interesting.

By Steven E. Ehrbar (See) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 01:54 pm: Edit

Eh. I see two different, fundamentally incompatible ways to do this:

1) Thorough concentration on Y21-46 (Federation contact with Orions to end of the First Romulan War), called something like "The First Romulan War: A Game of Starship Combat", use a simplified/modified FC as the rules (or a new system entirely), ignore all the other empires than the Fed/Romulan/Orion, and do everything in expensive full color end-to-end. A standalone game of starship combat in the First Romulan War era for Star Trek fans, deliberately aimed at an even broader market than FC, tuned for mass sales. Possibly serving as a feeder to other SFU games, but subordinating that as necessary to sales of this game.

The fact that Module Q never got much momentum among existing SFB players wouldn't bother me at all in launching this product, because SFB fans are not the people I'm aimed at. If SFB people buy it and like it, that's nice.

2) Module Q: Sublight Battles, a fairly broad Y1-Y60 overview, adapting SFB to the smaller scale with as few rules changes as necessary, along the lines of a Y module for the earlier era, with SFB SSDs for the Federation member races, Klingons, Romulans, Kzinti, Gorn, Orions, Hydrans, Lyrans, and Paravians. POD and maybe PDF, absolutely minimal expense, not even sure if I'd do counters.

The fact that Module Q never got much momentum among existing SFB players would bother me a LOT in launching this product, so my effort would be to minimize expenses as much as possible. It would be as SFB-like as possible because this is SFB's Module Q, not some standalone game. I need to cover both the Eastern (Fed-Romulan-Gorn-Orion-Paravian) and Western (Klingon-Kzinti-Hydran-Lyran) Powers because I'm aimed at SFB fans, and there are SFB fans of both and they'll also want to do non-historicals.


My personal guess is that if someone tried to do a hybrid of the two products I outlined above, the result will only sell to the intersection of the two sets of buyers that either product on its own would sell to. But, I don't have any experience as a game publisher, so here's a salt shaker.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 02:09 pm: Edit

The concept of doing a boxed game might make for an interesting Kickstarter project.

Maybe start with the Terrans as the initial Fed faction, and scale the stretch goals so as to add the Vulcans, Andorians, and others? Plus, if things go well enough, maybe the Gorns and Paravians could be offered as part of a plug-in expansion set.

The Klingons could be used to anchor a second full boxed game, with the Kzintis and Lyrans added to the mix. The Old King hulls used by the Klingons at this time, as well as the Hydrans and Carnivons, could be offered as stretch goals or plug-in expansions. (Presumably the rules would be designed to integrate with the first box, akin to how Klingon Border and Romulan Border mesh together in FC.)

Depending on the scale used for the minis involved, the five pre-ISC factions might get away with using the Metal Express ships, so long as a relatively inexpensive means of presenting them rules-wise could be worked out at some point.

(Of course, if the box sets themselves were set up to have ship minis to scale with either the 2400s or 2500s anyway, one handy side-effect of such a project would be an increase in the amount of minis available for Early Years play in other game systems. So you'd only need to raise funding to cast "new" hulls, like the Vulcans and suchlike.)


-----


As for using a game system which relies on more "standard" minis, it might be worth drawing up a list of which ship miniatures exist for the era, and which product line they are in.

For example:

Terran:
*QDN (use Narwhale DN Metal Express mini)
*QCA (use Epping CA Metal Express mini)
*QCL (use 2400 or 2500 Fed CL)
*QDD (use 2400 or 2500 Fed POL)
*QFF (use Salamander FF Metal Express mini)

Assuming I've gotten the right MX minis noted above, one could then do equivalent lists for other factions (be they in Starline or MX form).

Which leads to the question: do the Metal Express minis for the Terrans and pre-ISC factions count as Starline 2425s? I doubt any of them would be re-done for the 2500s, so perhaps it may be as well to mark them as such.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 02:56 pm: Edit

Kickstarter is for things that have a lot of support, which this doesn't (at least that's the impression I've gotten from SVC's comments).

I think all your suggestions above are way beyond the scope of what's being proposed here. I would recommend concentrating focus on a core product (in PDF form) and not worrying about a boxed set/miniatures/expansions/fringe stuff.

See if anyone buys it first.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 04:06 pm: Edit

Kickstarter... yeah, right, I'm going to invest a couple of thousand dollars in art, graphics, video, and Jean Time to launch a project that will fail. Uh huh. Right.

Guys, even Trekkers would not buy that thing. They don't care about the first romulan war. SFBers barely do, and only a few of those.

I would not plan on anything beyond a PDF rulebook for the first go-around.

By Jack Bohn (Jackbohn) on Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 09:21 am: Edit

So, starting in the Y20s, when the Klingons have retired enough Old Kings' ships that they don't need to be designed. Ending in the Y60s, with the introduction of Tactical Warp. (TW vs. NTW can be represented in standard SFB, but do we need a way to model it in Sub-Light Battles? See below.)

In addition to the conflicts listed above, there are Kzinti low-intensity civil wars and Lyran clan conflicts while constructing their county configuration.

One could posit distant Paravian raids, or spatial anomalies to create unhistorical matchups.

Should there be a generic "first contact" fleet to represent late bloomers to NTW? Innocents that the Empires would subjugate, or aggressors the Federation would set a protectorate zone around?

A sub-light monster? Consideration should be given to representing the Sun Snake in the game, and maybe Space Boars. I'm guessing there are two outcomes of an encounter with a Dragon: you went unnoticed or you were destroyed.