Archive through March 10, 2004
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Company-Conventions-Stores-Ideas: New Product Lines Development: GENERAL PROJECTS: ANCILLARY PROJECTS: Leanna's Fighing Starships: Archive through March 10, 2004
By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 02:10 pm: Edit

Quote:

I should point out that our license is for "game accoutrements" and that this book will have to include SOME game material, but we can keep it on three or four advertising pages



It occurs to me that several editions of the "The Naval Institute Guide to the Ships and Aircraft of the U.S. Fleet" featured layouts of the Arleigh Burke and Ticonderoga C&Cs and work stations.

This might not be a bad idea - to tie in the with the requirement of being a "game accoutrements" (and make Trek fans giddy) would be to have some engineering and bridge layouts within it. Perhaps just for 1 or 2 ships per issue, and the more exotic ones (IE., the ones that won't be done as full ships for GURPS anytime soon). Something like a Fleet Tug phaser station or Dreadnought C&C or Frigate engine room.

(IIRC, the USNI did these for the ships in the edition when they were brand-spanking-new and little was known about them. Generally, a whole section of many pages would be devoted to one class in an issue with such details. Maybe, for the late-GW era version of these books, an X-ship profiled thusly would fit this behavior? The feel in the book came off like "Here is the fleet, which is really cool, but check out THIS GUY...")

Would recruitement posters for navy in question be interesting? Or 'Air Force' (that's the planetary-based fighters and bombers, right?) I don't recall seeing such things in any Conways, USNI, or Jane's publication...but they would be kinda neat here.

By Dan Ibekwe (Danibq) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 02:19 pm: Edit

Great idea!

Also throw in..?

-Date of first launch

-Known names of units

-Number ordered/building/in commission (also lost/scrapped/mothballed/transferred to other fleets/captured/missing fate unknown?)

-Pennant numbers (just kidding)

-Notable missions or incidents concerning members of this class (writeups of historical scenarios)

-Notable officers associated with this class (Kosnett, Kumerian et.al)

Possibly set the book as of StardateXXXX (date of the 5-year mission, c Y155) or at some other particular time (start/middle/end of GW?)

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Man, what a cool idea. I keep a copy of Janes Tank Recognition Guide on my desk at work, mostly for sentimental value.

Some neat things to include in this book might be:



Could be arranged by ship type; a section on carriers, a section on DN's, a section on BC's...you get the idea. Man, what a great concept! I'd buy it for sure!

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 03:21 pm: Edit

If this product were to become an annual publication...you could devote regular features to it.

Just to throw out some ideas that NON SFB players might get hooked on:

Origins Victory articles...not as they are published in Captains log but rather pick just one of the rounds and illustrate the moves and accompany it with 'color commentary' describing the drama, tension, suspense and climax of the victory...in such a way that NON SFB players will be interested in just what SFB is all about.

Or how about one of the scale model builders or minature's builders (modelers?!?) get profiled with pictures of the model/miniture done in such a way to compliment Ted G's work.

Or even (and this will probably send some of the F&E people into orbit) a F&E article describing historical campaigns from the history (examples might be Calvary, nutcracker or the USS Mac Arthur going down in Romulan space...)Shoot, what am I saying! most of it has already been done in the larger scenarios. can we say automatic tie in?!?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 03:47 pm: Edit

If they sell, we will do them as fast as we can, not one per year. If they don't sell, we won't do one per year. Your features would make it a magazine and no store would buy it after the first month.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 03:51 pm: Edit

So what would the layout be like for this book?

1 page all pictures of the ship (Lets say Fed DW to start with).

Front, Side, from Front-Right or Front-Left.

Facing page all the stat's/commentary/etc?

So figuring a 64 page book, about 30 ships?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 03:55 pm: Edit

I was figuring 96 pages. Figure each base hull needs two-four pages, each mission variant needs 0.25-1 pages.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 04:19 pm: Edit

Why not follow the "annual" report type?

Each Book represent a single year and the book portrays the "latest and greatest" additions to the existing fleets. That way you can mix prototype designs with variant pages of previous prototype upgrades.

One bonus to that approach, is you can combine the table of contents with the ship name index with the Master Ship Chart information and list volume and page number where the information for each ship as it appears in edition of LFS.

Instead of starting with the beginning of the General war the annual approach lets you pick and choose any year in the history of SFB. ie you could go from yr 184 one time then 205 the next the back to the early years...giving lots of variety.

If you go chronologically, the ship name list and the models of ships won't change much, but if you skip around there are going to be large changes in the fleets decade to decade. Older hands with experience in sfb will take it in hand, but to those who are new to sfb will find a huge variation and history and will get to sample it in manageable amounts.

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 04:44 pm: Edit

Any chance that this could be done in the landscape format (which the early Jane's publications used), rather than the portrait format? Makes for a nicer coffee-table book for some undefinable reason, and the wide format is distinctive on a bookstore shelf.

By Jay K Gustafson (Jay) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 04:55 pm: Edit

Would fighters from the different races be also given pictures. and data.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 04:57 pm: Edit

I really hate the annual report idea.

Probably not practical to use landscape format. I'd have to ask the printer but from what I know of his equipment, the answer is no.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 05:50 pm: Edit

SVC-

Are thinking soft cover or....

HARDCOVER????

By David Kass (Dkass) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 06:48 pm: Edit

Couple of comments/ideas on "ads."

I'd ask that the "fake" ads themselves be useful. For example, if there is a "Divad-Bradley Shuttleworks" ad, have it include a bunch of "promo" information on "their" shuttles that is actually useful. Like a stats list (length, height, width, cargo capacity) some pictures of them and so forth. So that the page is just as useful as the "standard" ship pages, but in a different style. The shuttle one is easy to make useful, but others should be possible. This makes the page not only fun, but also very useful.

As far as ADB ads, could they be "blended" in to make them fit the style? What I'm thinking is to make them "come from" a game/simulator company from the book's historical era. Things like "The tool Kumerian uses to train his officers" or "Kosnett says 'I always test out my latest command in Star Fleet Battles!'" Or even subtle touches like including Earth in the ADB address (this should be fine even if someone includes it in the address). Or "holo-phone contact:" instead of "telephone number:"

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 07:06 pm: Edit

I'm thinking trade paperback (soft cover).

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 07:08 pm: Edit

Quote:

So what would the layout be like for this book?



I think the answer is pretty easy.

If you don't already have a few Jane's, Conways, or USNI books (FOR SHAME!!)...go to your local library. Pick up a Jane's, Conways, or USNI book off the shelf (they WILL have some - maybe only in the reference section)...it will look like that.

Quote:

have it include a bunch of "promo" information on "their" shuttles that is actually useful. Like a stats list (length, height, width, cargo capacity) some pictures of them and so forth.



*scratches head*

You guys don't read much naval literature, do you?

Try finding a copy of the USNI 'Proceedings' monthly for an example of these ads.

By David Kass (Dkass) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 07:13 pm: Edit

Xander, no I don't. Sorry, but its not a field I've ever had the time to study and can't say I've ever seen an ad in any of the few books I've skimmed (nor any of the websites--although I usually avoid web ads)...

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 07:15 pm: Edit

Will there be a systems list? Such as
Boom: Emer Imp, 4 F-Hull, etc.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 07:59 pm: Edit

Hrm, s ystems type list, a la the Ship COmparsion Tables that were shown in Module P6, would make a dandy appendix for SFBers.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 09:28 pm: Edit

Quote:

but its not a field I've ever had the time to study and can't say I've ever seen an ad in any of the few books I've skimmed



Off-topic, of course, but I VERY STRONGLY recommend you find a local library that subscribes to Proceedings - or find someone with a subscription.

It's a fascinating magazine. Really interesting articles in every issue.

Seeing how a real navy thinks, acts, and presents itself to the public - the problems it has to deal with (some I guarantee you'd never think of), the methods of change, etc...

It gives you a powerful insight into how future navies will likely 'work' from an HR perspective - a very valid concern for anyone into SFB and/or GPD.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 12:02 am: Edit

Quote:

Jeff Wile. I was referring to MJC's comment regarding deck plans, list of major bases, etc. IMO, if too obviously designed as a game/play aid, it will reduce sales.

Deck plans would be the most useful game aid in such a book and not frieghten non-SFBers.
Hex grids might be a problem on the deck plans but I suspect there are rules for gurps conversion of hex grid to squares ( I've written such rules myself a few times ).


Quote:


Possibly set the book as of StardateXXXX (date of the 5-year mission, c Y155) or at some other particular time (start/middle/end of GW?)


I wouldn't mind blocking the books into sections on the SFB timeline...the four powers war, the General War, the Second Kzinti Klingon War.
Big chunks of say 15 years would be fine for such a book if it was labled to a particular time period.
Then print then in a non chronolgical order to stop the ships list being to similar and have a few "missing years"...I mean who has a complete set of Jane's other than the Library of Congress, the RN and the USN!?!


Quote:

I'd ask that the "fake" ads themselves be useful. For example, if there is a "Divad-Bradley Shuttleworks" ad, have it include a bunch of "promo" information on "their" shuttles that is actually useful. Like a stats list (length, height, width, cargo capacity) some pictures of them and so forth. So that the page is just as useful as the "standard" ship pages, but in a different style. The shuttle one is easy to make useful, but others should be possible. This makes the page not only fun, but also very useful.


Gurps Tie-ins would be good.
An add for a Speical Capasitor that provides 200 charges of fire for you Disruptor rifle or Phaser Pistol wouldn't break GPD but would be really cool to bring into GPD from the Book ( Especial if MPA has a HOW TO section specifically to govern that intergration.


Quote:

Any chance that this could be done in the landscape format (which the early Jane's publications used), rather than the portrait format? Makes for a nicer coffee-table book for some undefinable reason, and the wide format is distinctive on a bookstore shelf.


Gatefold that and you might have a chance to present a ship's lines plan...especially an elongated one like the Fed CL.

By David Lang (Dlang) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 12:07 am: Edit

detailed deck plans of a ship will satisfy the 'game accesery' requirement as well as being interesting to non-gamers (how many people hav a sopy of the star fleet technical manual for example) just makw sure the scale is included so they can be blown up as needed for gaming.

things like this can even be snuck into the advertisments (the full page ad for the shuttle includes a internal diagram showing it's layout, etc)

for each issue pick a year and make sure that everything in it makes sense for that year. include articles covering rumers of the new prototypes being leaked out, information on what new ships were comissioned by various empires (and don't forget the independant planets) that year, what ships were canceled, etc

this could be extremely interesting

By David Lang (Dlang) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 12:08 am: Edit

also in the appropeiate years don't forget all the (incorrect) rumers of the capabilities of the X ships :):)

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 08:32 am: Edit

I keep getting Uncle Alberts Catalog flashbacks from the original Car Wars game...

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 09:21 am: Edit

In the real Janes books, there are often items listed that simply say "classified". Might be a nice touch to have that sort of thing for this book, too; like a CF's max warp speed could be considered classified, or something along those lines.

By Marcin Radzikowski (Marcin) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 09:22 am: Edit

LOL!!! I used to play that and still have every single issue of Autoduel Quarterly and Uncle Albert's Catalog.

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