Archive through December 18, 2022
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Federation Commander: FC: Gunboats Attack:
Archive through December 18, 2022
At this point I think GUNBOATS ATTACK will be the next product for FC. It would be the fastest one for me to produce. Players have consistently picked it as #1 or #2 of the three choices because you can use the cheap little things to fill out battle forces.
We'll do the product with 15 gunboats and a monster, then we can do the leaders and variants in infinite boosters, one every two months for the next year.
The idea is to do it PDF and see how it goes. It may be a year or more before we print counters again and SFB has oodles of counters anyway. We'll bunch the interceptors into their boosters because they are odd-size cards (more to a sheet so you get 12 in a booster not 8).
I don't want to do gunboats for empires we haven't published yet but all empires will eventually be in the product.
The general idea is no PFTs, mech-links, docking, undocking. They just show up as a few extra points in the battle force. This un-complicates the rules (which are 98% done anyway). I want to get the PDF out early next year.
Well, love to chat but Thor just jumped on my computer desk wanting his breakfast. Bye for now.
Sweet! Sound great!
If the Banshee is to be the monster Ship Card this time around, I'd ask if it was possible for the rules included for it to cover both the "galactic" Banshee type featured in Module K's (SM13.0), as well as the more dangerous "extra-galactic" variant featured in (SL280.0) Vanished into the Void from Captain's Log #39. (Both "breeds" are referred to in the Banshee "monster article" from Captain's Log #41.)
SVC SAID HE COULD DO THIS. ULTIMATELY HE DECIDED AGAINST DOING IT AS IT WOULD BE OUT OF PLACE AND IT WOULD BE MORE IMPORTANT TO HAVE A SHEET WITH LOTS OF BANSHEES.
OBSOLETE
Gary mentioned to me that since gunboats don't have a fleet size, the "other side" could be blank, a second copy of the front, a leader, or a variant. Thoughts?
OBSOLETE
As for the "other side", my first inclination is to include the cargo variant. Having the cargo variant gives you the commando variant "for free" and is really kinda useful for a lot of scenarios. On the other hand, they are just targets and generally can only be used when called for. So ... probably not.
I recommend providing a combat variant. Everyone (except the Orion) has at least one, so let's do that.
Fed, Tholian, Andro, Lyran, Seltorian, Vudar: the phaser variant
Klingon, Kzinti, WYN: the drone variant
Romulan (old), Gorn, ISC: Pl-D variant
Romulan (new): The A/B variant not on the front.
Hydran: hellbore variant
The one missing from the list is the Orion because it is all variants with its option boxes. How about this: Put the Ghosthawk on the opposite side. That is ostensibly Orion, is interesting, and isn't just a duplicate of the base gunboat.
I recommend not doing the leader. I suggest keeping that for the boosters because it has deployment restrictions and everything. The above ones don't really have deployment restrictions and should be able to be used freely.
Regarding the list above, the Vudar and Selts are missing. Would rather have them than skiffs, and as Mike says the Lyrans/LDR can be one card. Also the Frax could get a gunboat, if they count as published having had three ePacks?
Putting combat variants on the flip side of each card is a really good idea IMO.
When variants are being considered, it would be cool to see these proposals given a look:
* Rom K1 Gunboat (Mike West and SPP proposed slightly different versions, I like SPP's suggestion in Module R13: Tranche One, posted 29 Aug 2015)
* Fed 'Thunderflame' plasma gunboat (very conjectural but looks fun to fly, which is all I care about)
* Frax Midget Subs (Mike West had a nice proposal in the thread in the Misc Proposals folder)
* Hydran Hellbore Interceptor (obvious variant but would be cool to have)
Some or all of these may be unlikely, but I wanted to throw my support behind them in case it helps their chances 
A final note: please keep the Andros in that list, don't listen to Mike! The Andros are underrepresented in FC, they deserve a new toy, and the Adder PFs are fun and good.
Also, can you not get two per card? You were able to do so with Andro satellite ships, and they were larger. If you can do that, then I'd recommend providing two standard gunboats on the front, and two different variants on the back. In this case you could do a combat variant and a leader, or a combat variant and a cargo variant.
Would like to have Interceptor on the reverse side as the "fleet" scale PF. Some don't have interceptors, though.
The current plan is to put two standard PFs on the back. They will fit if you leave out the movement chart and some other stuff. Then one PF with charts on the front.
I accept that. The variants can wait for the stream of boosters.
And, changing subject, I see the list included as being:
Fed, Klingon, Romulan-Cent, Romulan-Star
Kzinti, Gorn, Tholian, Orion
Hydran, Lyran, WYN, ISC
Seltorian, Vudar, Andro, Banshee
Note that the Lyran doubles for the LDR.
For what (little) it's worth, I would prefer the back of each card to have that empire's workboat.
SVC COULD NOT SUPPORT THIS. PLAYERS OF FC WOULD HAVE LITTLE USE FOR RPG UNITS.
I would expect workboats to wait for one of the boosters.
The reason for multiple of the same gunboats on a card is so that you can have multiple in a single scenario without necessarily needing more ship cards.
I mean, most forces aren't going to just have one gunboat. The things are intended to be used in packs. (Yes, I know the correct term is "flotillas". Go with it.) if everything is just a bunch of one-offs, then the cards get less utility. Putting more of the combat gunboats on one card, however, lets the card get more utility.
Workboats definitely in a booster.
Mike's empire list is good to go.
Interceptors in separate booster.
No, you cannot put two on one side, see the PFs already in newsletters.
Fed Thunderbolt, Andro Adder.
I should have written things more clearly: when I was referring to one "side" or the other, I meant on the front or back of the Ship Card, not placed side-to-side. As in, to put Banshee variant A on the front, and Banshee variant B on the back.
Speaking of which, If there is to be another PF on the back of each Ship Card, I would rather it be one PF with its movement charts present, rather than two without them. Otherwise, players might be obliged to keep turning the Ship Card over and over, which I don't think is practical.
So, thinking it over a bit more, perhaps just one combat variant PF on the back - with its movement chart provided - would be best.
To use the aforementioned Tholian example: perhaps it could have one web generator variant PF on the front, and one phaser-3 variant PF on the back.
Thinking about it more, I think the most utility, assuming these are destined to be printed cards, is to have the standard gunboat front and back. With gunboats, you "can't stop with just one" and having two per card helps with that. (To be clear I mean one front and one back. Steve said no to two side-by-side, so that's fine.)
On the other hand, if the cards are only ever going to be PDF, then that concern is no longer relevant. Then variety does become more of a concern. But as long as printing is intended, two of the standard is probably best.
Am I mistaken, or will the gunboats all have the same movement chart anyway? If so, couldn't we leave that off the gunboat cards themselves to free up space, then have a separate Gunboat Reference Card with the movement chart, PF weapon charts, etc.? Maybe that would work well, if leaving off the chart allows more PFs on a card.
If the product is only ever going to be PDF, then one alternative option is to take up more of the printable area on each page and just pack the gunboats in there. I've done my own Gunboats Attack ship card format wherein each page has three gunboats on it; each empire gets a page of 3 standards and another with a leader, scout and one more standard (which players can just ignore and take only standards of course). Some empires get additional pages due to having many variants. For INTs I can get a full half-dozen on one page. When printed the SSD boxes are smaller than usual, but still plenty workable.
Anyway, I made those cards because I find it more convenient to be able to get a full flotilla out of two printed pages instead of 3 or 6 pages, but that might just be me! Obviously it would be too expensive to do the cards like this in printed form, so if printed cards are happening then this idea may not be worth much.
If you do a reference card, you lose a gunboat. Just sayin' ...
Yes, you lose a gunboat to get a chart.
Why not put the reference card on the reverse side of the Banshee card?
I assume because the banshee card will either show the variant Gary asked for or more standard banshees. But I could be wrong.
It's an option.
I would prefer the chart on the flip side of the banshees and the Galactic Banshee goto Hailing Frequencies.
I took a second look at the playtest gunboat Ship Cards in Captain's Log #54, as well as the same Inteceptors posted as Hailing Frequencies Extras (such as the Romulan Decurion).
Whereas each of those sample PFs and INTs are set in "portrait" mode, one to a Ship Card, I'm minded of how certain Andromedan Ship Cards, such as the Mamba, are set to "landscape" mode in order to fit two of them side-to-side - or, as shown here, Cobras are set three to a Ship Card, in a "T" pattern. (I don't recall if there are three Vipers per Ship Card also.)
At the very least, I might argue that if the Andromedans can do this for their Satellite Ships, they should be able to do something similar for their Adders and MWPs. As in, to perhaps set the Adder Ship Card to "landscape" mode and present them in the same manner as the Mambas, and then to put the MWPs three to a Ship Card in the same manner as Cobras.
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For empires other than the Andromedans, might this be an option also? As in, to rotate the Ship Card from "portrait" to "landscape" mode in order to fit two Alpha Octant PFs side-by-side, and then to perhaps fit three Interceptors to a Ship Card in the same manner as the Cobra?
Actually, for the WYNs, this would allow them to offer one Kzinti, one Klingon, and one Lyran Interceptor on their INT Ship Card - to match the mix shown on their INT SSD over in SFB Module K.