Garth,
I completely understand, its just that I still feel that if you are going to post a crew roster for the Fed Frigate, that you should give it its own topic.

I might be tempted to undertake a crew roster project, but would be more inclined to a different Empire (Kzinti, anyone?!?) to illustrate how it is different than a POL.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 04:31 pm: Edit

How about the PFF? That should be a relatively small increment above the Pol, and pair with it nicely ...

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 07:02 pm: Edit

The PFF has (IIRC) 3 x 5 point warp engine necelles. that is a 50% increase in warp power over the POL... does the addition of a third engine mean a 50% increase in Engineer staff?

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 10:01 pm: Edit

Well, let's see. The POL+ to PFF adds 1 x Photon, 3 x Ph-1, 1 x Drone, and one 5-box C-Warp. But it drops the 2 x Ph-3. It adds two crew-units. We started with 105 people (pushing the ten crew-unit limit to the MAX), so we can add between 11 and 19 more people and stay within 12 crew-units.

Let's say, based on the FF deck plans, the newer Photon tube design takes 3 people vice 4 (better automation), so we net 2 more people there. Each Ph-1 adds 2 people each. The drone needs 3, but we dropped 3 for not having the twin Ph-3s, so that breaks even. That's 8 more people. The C-Warp needs 2 techs, but I'd make it 3 just because we can. There's our eleven.

I figure the added weapons warrants the addition of an Assistant Weapons Officer. That leaves us up to 7 slots we can use to pad other sections. I'd add a third tech to L-Warp & R-Warp each, just to round out the duty schedule. I'd say Science could us another body or two. And we now assign someone dedicated to the Probe launcher. Let's call it 2 for the Probe, taking 6 of our 7 slots. With the last slot, I'd make the Chief of the Boat a dedicated position, rather than an additional duty for the ranking Chiefs, like the FF / FFG has.


Garth L. Getgen

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 12:23 am: Edit

Do #119-128 represent the two deck crews that all starships have that don't carry fighters?
What if the ship has no t-bombs (read: no commander's options)? Then where do #72-73 go?

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 12:43 am: Edit

Randy, yes. Per the rulebook, Deck Crews, like Boarding Parties, are four- to six-man teams.

The SSD shows all of these ships have two T-bombs as standard load. If for some strange reason a ship doesn't have them, then I guess it's the, a-hem, commander's option what to do with the slots. ;-)


Garth L. Getgen

By George Duffy (Sentinal) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 01:00 am: Edit

Garth,

The PFF replaces two 360* Ph-3s with Ph-1s and replaces the third 360* ph-3 with a drone rack. Since the POL+ uses three crewmen to man their photon, you don't "net" any additional crewmen by adding the second photon.

So in total you gain:

The second photon laucher (3),
The second drone rack (3)
Additional crewmen for the phasers (3)
The techs for the C-warp (2)

sub-total = 11

From here you can add:

The additional warp tech for each engine (3)
The A-WPO (1)
The "COB" (1)
The probe techs (2)
[which could also work in the labs]
And finally, add an additional corpsman(1)
[for the extra crew that were added on]

Which brings you to a grand total:

[1x Officer, 1x CPO, 17x enlisted] = 19

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 02:10 am: Edit

George,

My copy of the POL / POL+ SSD is (c) 1991. I don't have the updated Y2K version, but I thought the only thing that changed was the crew & BP count. No? I show 3 x Ph-1, w/ 2xPh-3 and a G-rack added in the "+" refit. There is no "third Ph-3". Or was that a typo and you meant "third Ph-1"??

In my roster, the POL / POL+ both have a four-man Photon crew, not three (Gunner, Fire Control, 2xE3). The FF/FFG have three-man teams. Maybe you looked at the wrong list?? {shrug}

When they upgrade to from POL/POL+ to PFF, they take out the old Mark-4 torpedo tube and put in two modern Mark-9 tubes. We go from 1x4 to 2x3=6. When I said "we net 2 more people", I didn't mean we SAVE two bodies; rather I meant we need two MORE bodies. Sorry if that was the point of confusion.

Per Petrick, even twin-mounted Ph-1s need two men each emitter. I was "cheating" by using one three-man team to run the twin Ph-3s. If I could get away with doing the same with the PFF's twin-mounted Ph-1s, I would. But I know what it's like trying to get something by Petrick ... I'd have better luck scoring on an NHL all-star goalie.

Oh, wait ... I see what you did. Instead of transferring the Ph-3 team to Drone, you moved them to Ph-1 and added three more to Phasers and then added another Drone team. We came out with the same number (except for Photon crew), just a different way of getting there. ;-)

An extra corpman ... interesting thought. What I did was add another Computer SysAdmin in the Lab. The Commander was promoted to CMDR, Exec and Ops to LCDR, Weapons and Science to LT, a second Weapons and Science LT-jg were added, plus the five Warp techs, two for the Probe, and the CoB, as mentioned. I'm not saying your way was wrong or my way is right. As no two ships have exactly the same crew. We could have just as easily added a Linguist or another Shuttlecraft Pilot instead. The second Science Officer could have been an Engineer instead. All depends on the mission profile and the desires of the Ship's Captain.


Garth L. Getgen

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 02:19 am: Edit

George ... I re-read my last ... it sounds a little "snarky" ... didn't mean it to be ... sorry ... I need sleep, so I'm signing off now.


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 09:00 am: Edit

So, now we have the crew roster for a Fed POL/POL+, in the same topic as the crew roster for a Fed Frigate (FF/FFG) in the same topic as the changes to the POL+crew roster for a Fed PFF.

That means, if some fiction writer 2 years from now does a search for the crew roster for the POL+, FF, FFG, or the PFF he (or she) will be directed to the topic "Federation Police Cutter - Crew Roster".

Lets hope they wade through the 100+ posts to find the information that they are looking for.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 10:04 am: Edit

Or they can wait until ADB does the final tweaks and publishes them in a Captain's Log or something. ;-)


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 03:01 pm: Edit

Well, true.

Wonder where such a project will end up? Captains log is one of the sources of material that gets printed in other products (SFBs rules Modules, GURPS RPG even F&E.)

With GURPs Federation already released, we've missed what might have been the most logical product.

I wonder, perhaps we should pursue a crew roster for a Orion LR and have both available for GURPs Cops and Robbers (the Orion Pirate edition).

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 03:06 pm: Edit

I would guess that if the Steves approve it, it would be a good candidate for the RPG magazine I'll be starting up when I get to Amarillo in 2013.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 03:50 pm: Edit

I am not opposed to putting it into CL43, if Garth finishes it up in a week or so.

We can certainly set up a separate topic for the frigate project. Garth should have asked for one before starting that.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 03:53 pm: Edit

Jean, would you consider a semi regular feature of crew rosters for various ships?

I know Garth is reluctant to deal with the Fed CA project, but there are scads of small vessels that might be of interest to players.

just to list a few, there are the civilian ships (Free Trader, Tramp Steamer, small freighters, Fed Express, Armed Priority Transport) before you get to the regular police ships and warships of the various races.

Heck, even if you limited to size class 4 and 5 hulls, there are more than a hundred such ship already in print.

Just curious.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 03:59 pm: Edit

Jeff, before starting a regular series, I'd want to see reader feedback.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 04:08 pm: Edit

Honestly, if it were handled right it could be one of the more popular features.

Step A - provide Crew Roster.
Step B - supply link to relevant deck plans of ship ( or publish in GURPS RPG Magazine).
Step C - include short list of "Adventure Hooks" for a variety of ADB products (kind of short adventure using ship and or personnel in the crew roster.)

This could be a kind of tie in product for SFBs, FC, GURPS RPG or even a Prime team mission that might have an impact on a F&E scenario. (destruction of a key base or ship, assasination of noted "bad guy" that results in an unexpected war... lots of opportunities to adventure.

Just a suggestion.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 04:12 pm: Edit

Jeff, "could be" and "would be" are two different things. I'd be happy to have an article like this and evaluate feedback.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 04:25 pm: Edit

SVC: Which one would you prefer, the Police Cutter or the Fed FFG? I would think the FFG as the deck plans are already in print. It's pretty well finished, save for defining the Battle Stations (easy done) and maybe some background stuff. I'm not sure I could write a full-up ready-to-print article, but I can throw something together that you and/or Jean should be able to work with.


Garth L. Getgen

By George Duffy (Sentinal) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 04:48 pm: Edit

Garth,

Yeah... I was tired too when I posted, even though I could say it was just a typo, I did say "third Ph-3" even though it really was a Ph-1. Time for an eye check-up

And about the photon crew being three crewmen, I kept missing one when I looked at the roster, a few times (must have bee the gunner's mate the way it's sandwiched in their). Guess I really do need that check up

About the corpsman, I put that in their because with a crew increase of 25%, from 99(POL) to 124(PFF), I would think that the medical staff would need to increase by that much as well (from 4 to 5), just to keep even. But it was only a thought .

{Edit: BTW - I didn't think of you were snarky... it was all good ]

Jeff,

You can always start one up as a player resource like Shawn Hantke's Table of Contents. Maybe for a larger ship that probably won't get placed into another product, like PD; or maybe even a commando ship, with marine roster, for Star Fleet Marines.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 06:06 pm: Edit

Garth: whatever works for you. The FFG would be fine. You do need to be sure you're using the PD rank chart, not the US Navy chart.

PO1 = E6 in PD
Chief = E7
Senior Chief = E8

If that's what you did, swell, you're 90% done.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 06:34 pm: Edit

Garth,

If you were looking for one more related ship (or set of ship variants) to consider at some point, I could make one last mention of the Federal Republic FF (and FFE and FFS)...

...and this will be the last mention of it (them) here, I promise.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 08:37 pm: Edit

Gary,

Why not supply your own crew roster for a Federal Republic Frigate (or FFE and FFS)...?

Garth has illustrated very clearly how he arrived at the final roster, and left helpful comments at some of the various decision points.

You might even explain why the FRA roster differs from that of the POL that Garth has posted.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 09:31 pm: Edit

George,

Yes... perhaps after I finish the Kzinti Police Corvette crew roster!