Archive through August 14, 2019
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Captain's Log: New Fiction:
Federation Police Cutter -- Crew Roster:
Archive through August 14, 2019
Jeff Wile:
More is expected of officers.
When I was in the service, each company had a Charge of Quarters.
Battalion and Brigade had Staff Duty Officers.
Division and Post had Field Officer of the Day.
There are some enlisted with the Staff Duty Officers and Field Officers.
At the end of the night, the Charge of Quarters (all EMs, although there is a company officer "on call") had the day off.
The EMs who worked the night shifts with the Staff Duty Officers and the Field Officers of the Day had the day off.
The officers who actually served as Staff Duty Officers and Field Officers of the Day had "normal duty days." In essence, you reported for duty the morning you were going to be Staff Duty Officer of Field Officer of the Day, did your normal duty, then did your night shift, and then went right back on duty the next day. No "compensation time" for your night duty.
One of the Brigades I was part of had a policy that the Staff Duty Officer could nap in the office and just get up to make his rounds. The problem was the brigade staff added so many things they wanted the Staff Duty Officer to check on his rounds that if he dutifully did what was required, there was no time to nap (almost literally when you completed the rounds it was time to start the next set of rounds), but the official policy was that you were authorized to nap.
There are fewer officers than EMs and NCOs, so Staff Duty Officer comes around a lot more frequently than Charge of Quarters.
And what can be real fun is to pull Staff Duty (you have already been up almost 32 hours) and have an alert drill requiring a deployment "to the field," which can keep you up for another 24 hours.
The cutter typically has at least four, typically five, occasionally six, Chief Petty Officers (E-7), aka "Chief". One of these will be a Senior Chief (E-8) whose additional duty is Chief of the Boat.
The Chief slots are: Bridge Ops*, Weapons, Engine Room, Damage Control+, Tac-Team+, and Shuttle Bay.
Weapons, Engine Room, and Shuttle Bay: These slots, plus one Bridge Ops*, were always filled by Chiefs. And again, one of the four would be a Senior Chief.
* Bridge Ops: There are four Petty Officer First Class (E-6), aka PO1, slots on the bridge: Quartermaster - Helm, Quartermaster - Nav, Signalman, and Sensors. One of these will be filled by a Chief. On occasion, you may find two Chiefs assigned to the Bridge on a particular cutter. They would not (normally) both be Quartermasters.
+ Damage Control & Tac-Team: One or both of these slots are filled by a PO1, especially before Y160. If both are filled by Chiefs, it's highly unlikely to also have two Chiefs in Bridge Ops (that would give the boat seven Chiefs #).
# Max number of Chiefs: Again, there were four Chiefs in the original crew roster. This authorization was increased to five sometime after the Second Federation-Romulan War of Y154-Y155. The "flight leader", captained by a full Commander (O-5), usually had one additional Chief assigned (total of five, later six), taking a PO1 slot. While theoretically possible, it would be highly unlikely to have seven Chiefs assigned to a single cutter, and only if the total crew was increased to 120+ (using Annex 6 Commander's Points).
There would never be two Senior Chiefs, and almost never any Master Chiefs (E-9), save perhaps for a Senior Chief tapped for promotion (and said Master Chief would be transferred out soon after).
Could any of the above Chiefs stand Bridge Watch? Sure, I suppose they could, particularly while in orbit or docked to a base.
Note: The above limits on the number of Chiefs on a cutter only apply to those assigned to the crew of the ship itself. The ship may be transporting Chiefs included in passengers such as: on the Inspector General's team, which would likely have two or three Chiefs on the inspection team; those on a science team or commando team not permanently assigned to the cutter; or simply passengers taking a "hop" going home on Leave or transferring to a new duty assignment. Also, one might add a Chief as a "mission specialist" for a short-term specific mission.
Garth L. Getgen
This is good stuff.
Any chance that a GURPS crew can be made up?
But of course. See above for the list I made (still incomplete) for the fiction stories I intend to write. I have bio sheets for each person. I do not, however, have GURPS-stats for them, nor do I intend to make those up.
Garth L. Getgen
Well, the GURPs stats were what I was looking for, but bios are cool, as well.
I'd be interested to see how this expands for the Police Flagship.
Okay, Randy, see what you can do with this guy:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Name: Joseph Michael “Mike” Martinez
Rank: Petty Officer Third Class (E-4)
Rating: Boatswain’s Mate
Duty Title: Damage Control Petty Officer, certified as Tac-Team member
Gender: Male
Species/Race: Human (Multi-ethnic)
Age: 25
Height: 5’8-1/2” / 174 cm
Weight: 165 Lbs / 75 kg
Appearance: Average build, brown hair & hazel eyes, olive complexion
Languages: English (native), Spanish (native)
Career history:
Time in service: 7-1/2 years
Time in grade: 1 year (demoted from PO2)
Y149: Police Force Basic Training and then Boatswain’s Mate School
Y149-Y152: Crewman, Tac-Team, on Police Cutter Elliot Ness
Y153-Y156: Boatswain’s Mate, Damage Control and Tac-Team, on Police Cutter Carabinieri
Y156-: Boatswain’s Mate on Police Cutter WPC Fletcher
Decorations: Three medals for heroic lifesaving action, two for valor in combat action, one for meritorious service
Skills & Training: Qualified expert hand-phaser, phaser-pistol, and phaser-rifle. Second-level green belt, military martial arts; experienced in street fighting / dirty fighting / bar brawls. Jack-of-all-trades; some training with electrical and plumbing, tinkers with small electronics but no formal training.
Family status: Divorced, one child (son) with ex-wife’s sister -- hence the reason for the divorce. Mother passed away when he was a teenager, but he stays in close contact with his father. He has a large extended family in which siblings and cousins were raised together, making it hard for outsiders to keep track of how each are related to the others.
Personality / mannerisms: His motto is “work hard, play hard”. Good natured and kind hearted. Not one to start a fight, he won’t back away from one either. He will always have a crewmate’s back, no matter what. Doesn’t often drink, but if you hand him a beer, you’d better have another five (or ten) ready. Mike thinks of himself as a lady’s man, with enough success to validate the claim.
Hobbies/Interests: Plays basketball and soccer; plays hard rock on electric guitar. He loves poker, which has caused him no end of problems. He’s actually pretty good at chess, but doesn’t play very often. Regarding his career goals, he has decided to stay in the service until forced-retirement. He considered specializing in electronics or perhaps retraining as a Master-at-Arms, but now plans to remain a Boatswain’s Mate and hopes to make it someday to the rank of Command Master Chief.
Background: Martinez enlisted in Star Fleet at the age of 17, but due to quota cuts was told he’d have to wait a year or longer before going to Basic Training. As the Police Force was able to take him sooner, he switched over. He married his high school girlfriend before leaving, and she followed to his first assignment. As his cutter was stationed out of planet Meva, they made port every two or three weeks, giving the young couple a somewhat normal married life. Two years later, his sister-in-law visited, and one thing led to another, which led to a divorce. After his wife left him, Mike threw himself into his work and became, while not a model crewman, a respected member of the crew. He earned an early promotion to Petty Officer Second Class in just four years, but a couple years later was reduced in rank due to a bar fight. Mike picked up a girl who, as luck would have it, was a Marine, and her fellow Marines took exception to his advances. Martinez always gave more than he got in a fight, and put three of the Marines in the dispensary. The commander of the Base Station wanted him court-martialed, but he avoided this by accepting a punitive demotion. As his probationary period is up, he is now eligible to take the promotion test and perhaps get his Second Class rate back.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Garth L. Getgen
Ryan: FLAG crew ... I haven't looked at it, but I would start by taking the FFG roster from CL-43 and modifying that. The photons go away, but a scout sensor is added. The biggest change is the Police don't (normally) use Marines, but rather Tac-Teams. I put Master-at-Arms in the leadership rolls and fill the rest with Boatswain's Mates and non-rated junior enlisted E-2/E-3 Crewmen.
The skipper is at least a full Commander (O-5) or possibly a bird Captain (O-6). In my world, the FLAG captain is also the de-facto Deputy Squadron Commander, and so should outrank all the cutter skippers.
Garth L. Getgen
I like the background, but he sounds very 21st century to me.
Cool story for sure!
Not sure what that means, nor how I should "fix" it to make him more 23rd century. He is a blend of three or four people I have worked with, and they all live in the 20th/21st century.
And yes, I do know someone who is paying child support to his ex-sister-in-law.
Garth L. Getgen
Garth, may I suggest, (Gently!) Approach the Police Flag Ship with caution.
SVC and SPP will no doubt have much to say about it, but my reading is that what we see may only be a fraction of the what the FLG actually represents.
first, we know that atleast some (most? all?) Federation Police Flagships carry a Federation Police Commissioner. the actual job has, To the best of my knowledge, hasnt yet been described let alone defined.
many players seem to think its like commissioner Gordon on the old Batman tv show. my guess is that its far more complicated than that.
we know Police Commisioner serpico (spelling?) was able to have a POL modified to carry a pair of hanger pods. that means he, at least, had influence at a ship yard, star base or other facility that could modify starships.
we also know, that police flag ships have special sensors. we know from various proposals over the years that special sensors could be used to control traffic in a province, possibly over one or more F&E hexes. (again, hasnt been defined, just talked about.
we also know that the CCS (forget the title, communication control station?) is a vital link in Sub Space communications (again, a finction of the special sensor on board. does that mean the FLG can extend the subspace communications net work with its special sensor? dunno, hasnt been defined.
we also know the FLG can carry a unit of Police Ground troops (was it a battalion? ) that means a ground force combat structure. is it ntegrated with the police space force? or is it a separate minature police marine force? dunno. does the ground force elements of the police operate any planetary defense battalions with fighter, hangers and ground bases? dunno.
over in the APT topic, I asked if there were a public health system in the provinces.. ( think county health nurse in the real world U.S.) is the police responsible for transporting and supporting medical quarrantines imposed by public health? dunno.
in fact, is there a civilian government in a province? and where does the province police commissioner fit in?
lots of possible issues.
I just would hate for you to rush in and paint yourself into a corner.
Jeff,
Where is it published that each province has a Police Commissioner??? I found a reference (PD-GURPS/Fed, Page 123) to a Police Commandant, saying that the FLAG gives "the police commandant a wide variety of specialize assets".
In my head, there is a three-star Admiral in command of all the Police Forces, with the title of Commissioner. He has a two-star Vice Commissioner as his second-in-command, and several one & two-star Deputy Commissioners overseeing various departments (assignments, training, procurement, etc, etc). This parallels how the US Coast Guard is organized.
In my world, I organized the police into several Districts (the NYPD would call these Bureaus), each broken down into several Precincts, each with several police ships assigned to a Patrol Sector.
Funny. I was actually up tonight working on some maps for the Federation Police.
Police Districts in Y-125: This was the year the prototype POL was invented. Up until this time, the Police Force used retired Star Fleet WDD, Y-APT, Y-CUT, and Y-FT-Prime ships (forget what those were called), and tons of Skiffs. Now that they had a "real" police ship to use, they broke map into three Districts: First (light-blue), Second (red), and Third (green), each with 4 Precincts. The north/north-east regions were still largely unexplored and thus had no police presence. The first two dozen POLs were allocated six in the Capital hex and six to each District.
Police Districts in Y-145: During the aftermath of the Second Federation-Kzinti War, the Fourth District (purple) was created, with 4 Precincts, to help with the recovery effort. The other Districts added a Precinct each. The cutter fleet grew to about 120 during the preceding 20 years. The police force suffered a major set-back with the loss of the new factory at the Aurora colony, plus sabotage at the main production facility, and combat losses during the War and against growing pirate activity. Although they were now a true space police force, they still didn't have enough cutters to go around. As a result, they tended to react to events and patrol only the hot-spots. They often ran a loose escort to convoys in an attempt to curtail pirate activity.
Police Districts in Y-155: In responce to the Federation re-opening the northern tier to exploration, the police created the Fifth District (pink) with three Precincts. The force suffered losses in both the Second Federation-Romulan War and the Second Federation-Klingon War. Still, the number of cutters now topped 200, allowing for more / smaller Precincts per District, and the new Callahan-class were being produced. This allowed the police to go on routine patrols rather than sit and wait to react to events. However, Patrol Sectors still average two to three hexes, instead of the stated goal of one-hex Patrol Sectors.
Police Districts in Y-160: After the Gorn Encounter, the police added the Sixth District (light-green). An increase in production and renovating mothballed ships brought the number of cutters to about 270. The police force was almost at its goal of one cutter per hex, but with no spares left over. The POL had become the primary first-responce ship anywhere in the Federation. The 2nd & 3rd Districts each had ten Precincts and were becoming unwieldy. The 4th & 5th were nearly as bad. Something had to give.
Police Districts in Y-165: The map was re-drawn to its final configuration. The Eighth (blue-grey), Ninth (yellow) and Tenth (light-purple) Districts were added. The First District was initially reduced to cover the Capital province but soon after further reduced to just the Capital Hex. To better align the Police Force to Star Fleet, the 2nd District (red) was renamed the 6th, the 6th (light-green) became the 5th, and the 5th (pink) became the 2nd, corresponding to the Number Fleets deployment areas.
By Y-168, the number of cutters exceeded 360, completing full deployment goals. Sadly, the force lost many cutters during the General War. A new goal was stated to rebuild the cutter fleet, plus add a POV carrier to each Precinct. After the War, the force also started using retired FFG in place of POL for the hottest patrol regions.
In my world, each District is commanded by a one-star Rear Admiral O-7 (aka Commodore) with a bird Captain O-6 as his second. Each Precinct is commanded by a bird Captain. The FLAG is commanded by a Commander O-5 (Captain after Y160) who is also the de-facto Vice Commander for the Precinct.
A Precinct is made up of a Squadron (FLAG + 6 or 7 POL), plus any Ground Stations (including police on BATS/SB), and Skiff flotillas and any other non-POL ship under police command. The Precinct Commander is sometimes called the Squadron Commander as he wears both hats.
Likewise, a District is made up of all the Precincts plus any other police assets not under a Precinct. When grouped together, the Squadrons of FLAG/POL in a District is called a Wing, so the District Commander is sometimes called the Wing Commander.
Of course, SVC may have other ideas and throw all of this out.
Garth L. Getgen
Number of Police Commissioners? unknown. so far, I do not think its been defined.
In my head, I assumed each Province has some sort of poltical, Commercial, structures, also still undefined. are they comparable to counties in the U.S.? that the "useful places" talked about in captains Logs, module F1, etc. comparable to cities, towns and villiages? dunno.
It could be that each Province is more like a State and each provnce has 4-7 hexes that actually are more like counties.
in this last system, a province with 4-7 f&e hexes would mean that the collection of Police units would form what amounts to a small flotilla or squadron. but its even more complicated than that, in that there may be a Major or Minor world (printed symbol on the F&E map) and additional worlds with planetary police ships assigned to them also, that are not printed on the F&E map.
to say it another way, if each f&e hex has up to 4 major or minor worlds in it, and each planet has its own police ship or ships assigned there, then in stead of one province having only 4 to 7 police ships, you might find that a province actually has (4 to 7)+((4to7)*(1to4)) or a larger number of ships. most of which may not be POL of FLG types, but some may be.
does a Major World have its own Police Commissioner? dunno.
but if major or minor worlds each have a police unit(s), you might find that a province of the Federation has many more police ships than anyone could have imagined.
(and one more headache for you, this all assumes that the federation police forces are integrated and report to the police commandant you mentioned. what if planetary police are paid for and supplied by each planet instead of by the federation?)
Jeff,
>> Number of Police Commissioners? unknown. so far, I do not think its been defined.
That's what I'm asking, has that word "Commissioner" been used in any SFU publication in a manner that would suggest it's the title of whoever is in change of a province-level police force. In my head canon, that title is reserved to the person in charge of the entire police force. It's also used for the several Deputy Commissioners who are heads of high-level departments at Police Headquarters. If my head-canon is wrong, please show me where it's printed.
>>> In my head, I assumed each Province has some sort of political, Commercial, structures, also still undefined. are they comparable to counties in the U.S.? that the "useful places" talked about in captains Logs, module F1, etc. comparable to cities, towns and villages? dunno. ... It could be that each Province is more like a State and each province has 4-7 hexes that actually are more like counties.
For my purposes, I don't care about any of that. All I needed to know is Steve Cole defined that by the start of the General War, each Province has a FLAG, and each hex has a Cutter.
The problem is, how do we get there. The POL prototype was invented in Y-125, with the production model in Y-127. You can't snap your fingers and POOF there's 257 cutters on the map. Without getting overly specific with numbers, I tried to guess how the police fleet would grow from Y-127 to Y-167.
The other problem is it would be near impossible for a central headquarters to oversee 45 separate province-level units, let along 257 cutters each patrolling a single hex. There has to be a mid-level management system. Ergo, I created the District / Precinct system.
>>> a province with 4-7 f&e hexes would mean that the collection of Police units would form what amounts to a small flotilla or squadron.
Yes, when it's five to seven POL + a FLAG, I call that a Squadrons, and several Squadrons make a Wing.
A bunch of Skiffs would form a Flight or a Flotilla.
In my system, a Precinct contains the squadron of POL+Flag, all ground stations, and all Skiffs, under Police control, within a given area.
In my head-canon, prior to Y-145 or so, Precincts covered two or three Provinces because there just wasn't enough POLs to fill the area. Each POL had a patrol zone covering three or four hexes.
In my system, a District is made up of the several Precincts within a given area.
>>> that there may be a Major or Minor world (printed symbol on the F&E map)
If a planet buys and crews a POL or flight of Skiffs, those aren't under Police control and thus aren't included.
Large ground stations, i.e., those on F&E MAJOR planets, are considered to be independent precincts. The station commander "owns" the ground station, any troops on orbital platforms over the planet, and any police skiffs on / in orbit over the planet. Such a unit would report to a District and not the local province-level Precinct.
>>> additional worlds with planetary police ships assigned to them also, that are not printed on the F&E map.
If a planet isn't printed on the F&E map, it's not big enough / important enough to have its own POL. It could have a flight of skiffs, and probably has a small police ground station.
>>> if each f&e hex has up to 4 major or minor worlds in it
Except for Capital Hexes, that doesn't happen.
>>> does a Major World have its own Police Commissioner? dunno.
See above: I would say no. A station commander or precinct commander, yes.
>>> if major or minor worlds each have a police unit(s), you might find that a province of the Federation has many more police ships than anyone could have imagined
When I crunched the numbers, in Y-165+ I allowed for one POL per hex, plus one per province, plus one per Star Base, plus one per MINOR, plus two per MAJOR. Throw in a few extras for special duty assignments, and the total number of POLs is above 350.
>>> and one more headache for you,
Just one? Promise??
>>> this all assumes that the federation police forces are integrated
Yes, except those that are bought and paid for by independent planets.
>>> and report to the police commandant you mentioned.
Commissioner, not Commandant. Unless someone can show me otherwise, the Commissioner is the head of the entire police force.
That said, I am perfectly willing to use the title of Commandant in place of Precinct Commander / Squadron Commander, and/or in place of District Commander / Wing Commander.
>>> what if planetary police are paid for and supplied by each planet instead of by the federation?
If the money and crew comes out of the planet's budget and population, with no police resources being used, then I didn't count them in my calculations.
Garth L. Getgen
Perhaps it might be worth considering "coast guard" ranks as well as "police" ranks, as the Federation Police is tasked with both missions.
Also, apologies if you have accounted for this already, but any total of police ships per planet, hex, and/or province might subtract those units which would have been assigned to the Orion Enclave (and to Orion and Osiris more specifically) had that region existed as a "normal" part of the Federation. By and large, the Orion National Guard assumes all of the responsibilities of the "space police" and "coast guard" within the Orion province - which of course leads to all sorts of questions as to what the Orion Dragon Cartel is up to in those same hexes.
On another note, I thought it worth considering the role which the Federation Police might assume out in the "off-map" Survey Area.
Based on the data in Federation and Empire, there are three off-map provinces and a single starbase in this region as of Y168 (753.0).
By the onset of the ISC Pacification in Y186, the Federation had accumulated a total of 726 survey points [see (625.542) in F&E ISC War]; based on the exploration rules in (505.21), that translates to twenty new provinces (assuming I haven't messed up the caculations). On top of that, the Feds have placed three colonies (of the type large enough to appear on the F&E scale) in the Survey Area according to (625.597); as well as no less than six minor shipyards (three for NCLs, and three for FFs) under (625.596).
And yet, unlike in certain other empires' off-map zones, Star Fleet has yet to deploy a "line" feet to this area, to go alongside the "survey" ships of the Second Fleet. (The ISC Y186 order of battle has two "line" fleets deployed to the Distant Zone, along with a separate "survey" fleet posted to that region - though elements from both "line" fleets had been re-deployed along the various Pacification cordons by the onset of the Andromedan invasion.)
The data on what, if any, "line" ships the Feds might send off-map during the Andromedan War would have to wait until F&E Andro War was being worked on; but given how thinly Star Fleet is spread out there as of Y186, and that any National Guard ships deployed there to "show the flag" would likely be limited to those systems colonized by their respective home planets, it may fall more heavily on the Federation Police to deal with any pirate, monster, and/or Andromedan activity across a greatly expanded Survey Area.
Gary, you're the Omega expert, yes? Any idea how many cutters were at Aurora when it decided to exit the Federation??
Regarding rank titles: I asked SVC about that once upon a time, and he said they use Navy / Coast Guard ranks.
Regarding Orion: If you look at my maps, I left them out of the equation.
Garth L. Getgen
At the time of writing, the most up-to-date info regarding the development of the Auroran Navy is in the OR-section data from the 2011 Omega Master Rulebook and in the FRA update file in Captain's Log #53.
However, while there is somewhat clearer data on how many functional CLs were in-system at the time of involuntary transference, it's only noted so far that "several" POLs were present to be converted into Auroran FFs.
Also, while the POL/FF yard in-system was a "proper" construction yard (unlike the CL yard, which was jury-rigged out of a CL maintenance dock), it's unclear as to whether or not the Aurorans had to reverse-engineer any of the POLs on-site in order to develop the FF design, or if they were able to undertake such conversions (and new construction) without taking one or more of their police cutters apart.
Oh, and while there is as yet no line art or miniature design (or word from ADB) to corroborate this, it would appear that the secondary hull of the "hybrid" destroyer design the Aurorans began operating in the Y170s seems to have been built up from that of the FF, at least based on the SSD outline.
The boom of the DD is designed along the lines of that of an F5L; it, and the DD's engines, are derived from a reverse-engineered Klingon ship, the details for which have recently been published in CL53. The outline of the boom on the destroyer SSD is adjusted somewhat relative to that of the F5L, though.
has "commissioner" been used to denote responsibilites in a province other than police? (paraphrased)
no.
but, F&e divided up the F&e map into groups of hexes called provinces for economic reasons. (i.e. each hex contributes a portion of an economic point, the accumulation of those fractional points appear to be rounded up so each province contributes exactly 2 EPs. )
it may just have been for playability (meaning the Fed player only need count 34 on map provinces instead of 234 f&e hexes) but for ever reason, its part of the game now.
up to now, there has only been occasional mentions on the BBS by Petrick to planetary govenors, and perhaps I read too much into it, but implication that those governors may control/influence the star system those planets occupy. (with the cleaning of the BBS most of those references are gone forever now.) does that mean that there is a "regional govenor?" dunno. but given that the provinces exist, is it impossible for a provincial govenor exists? it may just be the govenor of the largest economic unit in the province gets the default title... or maybe SVC has a different plan.
but this is where your statement "thats for capital hexes only" is inherently wrong.
each F&E hex has 1,000 useful places (its published in multiple places, if you dont like it, go argue with the steves. it wasnt my idea.)
those useful places can be anything from a terrain feature (asteroids, heat zones, radiation etc.) to rogue moons, planets, asteroids etc. or an undesclosed number of star systems.
in short, there could be a number of Major or Minor planets in each F&e hex that are not listed in F&e. lots and lots of them. I found that out from SVC when he rejected one of my proposals. and each one of those planets could have its own police.
you asked "How do we get there?"
in one of those now deleted bbs topics, I asked about how new police flotillas were established. I was told that the "useful places" developed commercially first (not stated, but I assume that meant colonies, mines, aggricultural outposts, science outposts, prison worlds, CCS (subspace communication stations) etc. and eventually will need police units (skiffs, security skiffs, POL and FLGs )assigned to the area.
the only real option seems to be as Major and Minor Worlds develop, they need police. it appears the Federation steps in afterwards and assigns a police commissioner to coordinate the police units purchased by said planets. of course, these ships must be bought and paid for from the Federation.
I told you, this can get complicated!
Jeff,
>>> (ref: planetary / regional governors)
Again, outside the scope of what I'm working on, which is the organization of the Federation Space Police. That said, yes, I would say both planets and provinces can have governors. A planet might be large enough to have a president, even though the Federation as a whole is lead by a President. Ditto for a local police commissioner and a Federation Commissioner.
>>> each F&E hex has 1,000 useful places (its published in multiple places, if you don't like it, go argue with the Steves. it wasn't my idea.)
Yes, I know. I'm the one who first crunched the numbers and posted them. If anything, I low-balled the numbers.
>>> there could be a number of Major or Minor planets in each F&E hex that are not listed in F&E
I once used the word "minor planet" when I meant a small colony or settlement, and was strongly corrected. SVC has always been very clear that the words MAJOR PLANET and MINOR PLANET mean something specific in F&E game terms.
Yes, there are a flip-ton of possible useful planets in every hex. I used the Gazetteer to mark up an F&E map with all the colony and other mention-worthy planets.
>>>>> you asked "How do we get there?"
Yes, how do we get from Zero to over Three Hundred cutters in roughly Forty years??? What year do we hit 100? 200? 250? Understandably, SVC doesn't want to get locked-in with hard-numbers, but I'd like to have an idea that puts me in the ballpark.
>>> I asked about how new police flotillas were established.
I use the term "Squadron" for a six-pack of POL and a FLAG. If SVC wants me to use the term "Flotilla" (or something else) instead, I can comply. Ditto for "Wing", the term I use for a bunch of Squadrons under one command.
>>> told that the "useful places" developed commercially first ...
Yes, let's call the "useful places". Colonies, settlements, outposts may be too small to have their own local police, so the Feds provide. It's like some small towns in Nebraska (or Kansas / Dakotas, etc) are policed by the county sheriff or state patrol. I remember a town in California fired their entire seven-man police force, so the CHiP took over the duty. Same thing applies here. Such small "useful places" might not have any law enforcement of their own, or maybe they just have Sheriff Andy & Deputy Barney, and the Feds step in when needed.
>>> as Major and Minor Worlds develop, they need police
{sigh} Again with the "Major and Minor". Whatever. Yes, such worlds (printed on the Map) will have their own local planetary governments and law enforcement. They would probably also have a Federation Space Police presence. There's probably a Ground Station next to the spaceport on Earth, Mars, Andor, Rigel, Cygnus, Meva, etc, etc. These are all MAJOR/MINOR on-map planets.
The larger not-on-map planets also might have populations large enough to require local governments and local police. These (and the MAJOR/MINOR) will have their own governor / president, and their own local police chief / commissioner WHO IS NOT PART OF THE FEDERATION POLICE (emphasis, not meaning to shout).
All that said: I don't care. It doesn't change how I chopped up the Federation into Space Police Districts and Precincts. See colored maps linked above for Districts. Precincts eventually (by Y-160) are synonymous with Province. Patrol Sector is the same size (by Y-160) as a single 500-parsec F&E hex.
Note: If there are different published terms that I need to replace District/Precinct/Sector with, please do let me know. Please cite the source document (a post by SVC is enough for me).
As mentioned, I already factored in putting two dozen POL in the Capital Hex, and two POL per MAJOR and one per MINOR to guesstimate how big the Fleet needs to be by Y-168. I know from a few years back that SVC doesn't want hard-numbers posted, so I left it as "about ###" or "more than ###" to be slightly vague.
>>> it appears the Federation steps in afterwards and assigns a police commissioner
Yes, they might assign "somebody" to assist such a planet. Is that person's title "commissioner"?? Not to get hung up on the word "commissioner", but I am hung up on the word.
To me, unless SVC has other ideas and/or can suggest a better title, the Commissioner is the person who runs the entire Federation Police Force, all 45+ FLAG and all 350+ POL and who-knows-how-many Skiffs, APT/FT cutters, and everything else.
I just can't see the force having 45+ separate Commissioners in charge of every Precinct, and more for each planet. As I said, I found a reference to "Commandant" to that level of commander. I'd be okay with it, if that what SVC wants.
Okay, the person assigned to a developing world might be a Deputy Commissioner, or a Special Commissioner, or a Special Deputy or Assistant Deputy or whatnot. But in my view, this would not be The Commissioner. Yes, I'm hung up on that word.
>>> police units purchased by said planets. of course, these ships must be bought and paid for from the Federation.
In my opinion, if the asset is going to be tied to the planet, just as with the National Guard ships, the planet can bloody well pay for it themselves. If I'm running Star Fleet or the Space Police and I'm trying to double my fleet size, I'm not going to spend my money to give stuff away to small planets. I might increase the patrol frequency to said planet, but I'm not going to give them a ship that I might need elsewhere. I'll happily base a flight or flotilla of skiffs there and/or put a ground station there. (By the way, by "ground station", I do NOT mean any of the Small Ground Bases found in SFB. I mean "an office building where cops show up to report for duty".)
Garth L. Getgen
Garth, there are Major worlds published in Gurps PD And NOT on the F&E map. Partial list was in a captains log a few years ago.
when you make the distinction, you are ignoring published star fleet history. at least one world iirc was a founding member world of the UFP. (I will see if I can dig out my copy of GURPS Federation.)
SVC, SPP you and any one else you may want to name can do what you want, but just remember there is a large body of published information out there in the SFU. contradict it at your peril!
Okay, Jeff, I'll concede there may be such a list of "major/minor" planets out there someplace. It'd be nice if someone could say where it was published.
For my purposes, if a planet isn't marked on the map, I'll refer to them as "notable", which is what PD:GURPS calls them. Whatever. I don't care. Yes, it might bump up the total number of cutters (and FLAGs) slightly, but as I didn't specify any hard numbers, it doesn't really matter. It doesn't change the other stuff I wrote, does it?
Garth L. Getgen
Garth, no, it will not change the things you wrote, but eventually the number of Police squadrons, (flotillas if you will...) Wings and non ship police units (security skiffs, modular couriers, possibly the odd APT etc.) will add up.
I just want to suggest that you leave "expansion room".
which brings me to the point I wanted to discuss.
the FLG may be more complicated to build a crew roster than the POL or the FFG.
each province will be different from the others in varying degrees. the roll of the FLG may have to change with it.
if were talking about a low population Province in the new survey areas, the FLG might be required to assist the star fleet corps of engineers more and spend less time on anti piracy duty, or even revenue collection (collecting tarriffs).
a FLG assigned to a major World (not a capital) might never encounter a star Fleet corp of engineers, but might be monitoring movement of displace persns (refugees) or constantly on convoy escort duty to protect the planets freighter, or it might be tagged for a courier run to get the planets member of the Federation Senate back to Earth for a important vote.
lots of options.
there might even be two high population worlds in the same star system on the verge of war (remember eminiear and vendikar! TOS?) a police presence maybe needed to enforce a DMZ.
Maybe it's just me, but in my opinion, the FLAG should never leave dock without at least one POL by its side.
As far as building the crew roster, I don't think it should be too hard. It has 260 crew, half of which are Boarding Parties. As mentioned, the POL doesn't (normally) have Marines on board but rather Tac-Teams made up of Master-At-Arms and Boatswain's Mates. For the FLAG, I would be open to the idea that the BP are a mix of Marines and Police, say a 90/40 split.
Ten more crew are the shuttle-bay deckhands. That leaves 120 crew to work with. Checking CL-43, if I counted right, there are 115 crew members on the FFG not part of BP or deck crew. Take out the seven assigned to the Photon, and then add back in some for the Special Sensor. Do some minor tweaks, and TA-DA, Bob's your uncle.
Garth L. Getgen
CL44 has a conversation on Day 1 or 2 between Admiral Connell the 3rd Fleet commander and "Police Commodore Barinex" griping about how he'd lost a dozen cutters so far.
by rights, the Klingons should have caught far more than just a dozen cutters. please understand, I am a fan of the Fed POL, its an amazing design when you take the time to see how it does its jobs. the point I want to make is the Klingons invaded with a huge number of ships that overwhelmed the Federation defenses.
POL class ships make an effective civil Police unit, but it is not (Repeat)NOT a mainline battle frigate. Its primmary job list does not start and end with "repel Klingon invasion without assistance of the UFP Star Fleet."
yes, POL class ships have fought many battles, and will continue to serve the Federation, but the existing Policy and Doctrine of the proper use of the POL is civil police functions.
just handy to have an extra Photon and 3 phaser1s mounted on a nimble size class 4 hull, when needed!