The thought of "Phaser Heavy Tholians" has appeal for me too, Alan.

There's also another ship that I'd LOOOOVVE to see some heavy weapons replaced with Phaser-1s; the Federation Destroyer. We've seen them with two Photon Torpedoes replaced with Drone Racks and Plasma-F Torpedoes, but I don't think I've seen one yet with the two Photon Torpedoes replaced with Phaser-1s. Personally? I think it'd be cool, but probably unbalanced.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Sunday, February 26, 2023 - 12:34 pm: Edit

Jeff,

A long time ago, I proposed an alternate armament for the (unrefitted) Fed destroyer, as an attempt to deal with the issue that it didn't possess the power to effetively use four photon torpedoes. So the photon torpedoes were reduced to three and the FH phaser-1 installation was increased to three; giving a total 3 photons and 7 phaser-1s as compared to the original 4 photons and 6 phaser-1s.

The design was controversial with Star fleet, with some preferring the crunch of four photons while others preferred the more energy-efficien version with only 3 photons but seven phasers. Only two were actually built. While the debate was still in progress, a separate design team came up with the "+ refit" that increased total power generation to 23, 19 of it warp. With the extra power, the 4-photon version was the consensus choice. The alternate version's status was LP2.

Such was my proposed idea but nothing ever came of it.

By Jay Gustason (Jay20) on Sunday, February 26, 2023 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Tholians with ph4s

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Sunday, February 26, 2023 - 02:07 pm: Edit

Jay,

I don't understand. Tholians have phaser-4s. In fact, they have more phaser-4s per base than any other empire.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Sunday, February 26, 2023 - 05:00 pm: Edit

I think he's asking for phaser-4 on Tholian ships, which has been on the auto-reject list for decades.

By Jeff Guthridge (Jeff_Guthridge) on Sunday, February 26, 2023 - 05:58 pm: Edit

A Phaser-IV armed Tholian fleet would be so unbalanced it would make Commander's Edition Andromedans look passe.

Hide behind web and blast away.....

*shudders*

By Jay Gustason (Jay20) on Sunday, February 26, 2023 - 06:46 pm: Edit

That’s what I ment your right that would make the tholians unbalanced

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Monday, February 27, 2023 - 12:40 am: Edit

Galactic Smorgasbord (P6) and Borak also have the Megaphaser... (evil grin)

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Monday, February 27, 2023 - 08:36 am: Edit

OK, Tholian ships armed with phaser-4s...

But I don't think ADB has yet decided what the SSDs in CL55 will be. And I was trying to suggest things that I would like to see and which might actually make the cut.

It's true that all the information necessary to play my preferences 2 and 3 has already been published in Module R9 (assuming you are allowing "conjectural" units). But it would be nice to have dedicated, single SSDs for the ATG-based and NTG-based battle tugs.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Tuesday, February 28, 2023 - 01:49 pm: Edit

Another suggestion for an SSD for CL55; the Seltorian "Light Battleship", the three-boom conversion of their DN.

By Jay Gustason (Jay20) on Tuesday, February 28, 2023 - 02:33 pm: Edit

Another good. Choice

By Jay Gustason (Jay20) on Tuesday, February 28, 2023 - 02:34 pm: Edit

One off prototype ship of whatever race

By Jay Gustason (Jay20) on Tuesday, February 28, 2023 - 02:35 pm: Edit

It would be real

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Tuesday, February 28, 2023 - 04:12 pm: Edit

Did the Hive Ship arrive with DN/BC companions? It's been established that she couldn't build them here.

Could she even build the booms for those ships? Given the fixed production capability for boom to rear hull ratios for smaller ships, I think it unlikely.

Still, I think it not unreasonable to declare it to be a "Conjectural Ship" for either Home Galaxy or Milky Way simulators.

My 0.02 Quatloos worth.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Tuesday, February 28, 2023 - 07:05 pm: Edit

Jay and Jeff;

Your comments reminded me of another proposal I had, a number of years ago, that also went nowhere.

The basic Hive Ship has six construction bays, four of which are Size 4 and can only build small ships. The other two are Size 3 and can build cruisers.

My proposal was for a "Heavy Hive Ship". It had the same systems as the standard Hive Ship but merged the Size 3 bays with the forward Size 4 bays; creating a pair of Size 2 bays and resulting in a ship that could only build four ships at a time rather than six, but could build dreadnoughts or BCHs in the Size 2 bays.

Again, nothing came of that proposal.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Tuesday, February 28, 2023 - 11:27 pm: Edit

Alan, as Arte Johnson used to say, "Verry Eenteresting..."

May I go, well, "Stupid" with it? Thanks...

Neo-Tholian Hive/Nest ships?

I can imagine one of the last StarBases under Tholian control being used to convert some of their giant cargo haulers into those sorts of "Lifeboats."

Their only real purpose (game wise) would be to have Neo-Tholian Destroyers and Frigates active in other theaters. Omega. LMC. Maybe even Triangulum.

Would there ever be a fleet action where a Tholian Hive/Nest went toe-to-toe with a Seltorian Hive/Nest? Probably not, but if it did, it'll make Sumo look dainty...

(Umm, I did preface the idea with the admission that it's "Stupid..." )

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, March 01, 2023 - 12:28 am: Edit

I like the heavy hive ship concept (two-2, two-3, two-4). We might also do a light hive ship which has only two-3 and two-4 bays, or is that the nest? I don't have a copy at home.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, March 01, 2023 - 12:46 am: Edit

The problem with the Tholian Hive Ship idea is that the environmental systems are totally different. You would have to design the thing from the ground up or the metal would melt under the high temperatures.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, March 01, 2023 - 11:22 am: Edit

The Nest Ship has two Size Class 3 bays and four Size Class 4 bays.

For what (little) it's worth, there is an old "Lair Ship" (with two SC 3 bays and two SC 4 bays) elsewhere on the BBS.

As for a heavier Hive Ship with Size Class 2 bays: are there any SC 2 cargo ships in M81 which could dock in such bays? If so, it would make sense for the Tholians to provide "cargo hauler" variants of such a hull to the Seltorians prior to the Revolt. If not, it might be a step too far even for the pre-Revolt Tholians - in which case the post-Revolt Seltorians might have to figure out how to design such a vessel by themselves.

On a side note: according to the data over in F&E Minor Empires, it is possible for the Seltorians to eventually build a medium shipyard capable of constructing Size Class 2 warships under (546.51), but only with the permission of the "host" empire. Historically, the ISC put an end to the tribunal expedition in the Alpha Octant before this could happen (and the Klingons were reluctant to permit the construction of such a yard inside their territory in any case). But it's not outside of the realms of possibility for a different expedition elsewhere in the universe to have succeeded in getting such a yard up and running.

-----

Speaking of units built in the home galaxy, I'm still hoping that there might one day be a venue in which to present the Draco-Tholian survey ship Sojourner.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Wednesday, March 01, 2023 - 12:23 pm: Edit

SVC, that's why the Archaeo-Tholians we've come to know and love went through the insane effort to move their Dyson Sphere home on an intergalactic journey.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, March 01, 2023 - 02:24 pm: Edit

Small problem with purported "size 2 bays." The bay may be long enough, but it would not (on the current hive/nest ships) be wide enough to accommodate the ship and the construction gear around it.

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Thursday, March 02, 2023 - 07:45 am: Edit

SPP, collapsible bays like PFs get repaired in.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Thursday, March 02, 2023 - 09:29 am: Edit

Collapsible bays that fit SC2 units are on a slightly different scale than that of a gunboat. If it can even be done, I would imagine that some severe limits would be imposed that might not make the effort worth the bother.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Thursday, March 02, 2023 - 11:08 am: Edit

At least I’d imagine the ship would have to be immobile, or at best impulse movement only, with such bays erected - and assembling/dissembling them is beyond the scope of a scenario.

That said, given the relative numbers of SC2 ships versus smaller ones, perhaps a single bay on the centerline would be workable in terms of having a functioning ship while providing ample capability for building the SC2 ships the force led by such a Tribunal vessel would need.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Thursday, March 02, 2023 - 11:13 am: Edit

It seems to me it definitely would be worth the bother, whether through "collapsible bays" or some other method. (Perhaps the "heavy hive ship" is built on a different hull, shorter but wider, than the standard hive ship.)

In our galaxy the Seltorians (at least initially) had the help of the Klingons. But they had no way of knowing in advance that would be the case. Suppose they track some Tholian refugees and find them well established in their new home and producing ships including dreadnoughts; and that none of the indigenous empires there want to, or are able to, help the Selts against them? Good luck taking on those Tholian dreadnoughts (of whatever design) when the best you have is a heavy cruiser...