There is a "real world military" topic in which some purely military issues may get slightly into politics, and this is tolerated so long as no other rules (i.e., no insults) are broken. Those who have participated in this topic know that our non-US participants often have very different views than you are used to. It won't hurt you to hear another side of the issue and you may learn something. It should also be noted that some of those who post frequently in that topic simply have no idea what they're talking about; be polite in alerting them to this fact.
| By Jessica Orsini (Jessica_Orsini) on Tuesday, July 14, 2026 - 12:51 pm: Edit |
| By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Tuesday, July 14, 2026 - 12:59 pm: Edit |
Sweden has ships designed to protect Swedish interests in the Baltic. Would some of those vessels be useful in the similarly shallow and constrained waterways of the Strait of Hormuz?
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, July 14, 2026 - 01:01 pm: Edit |
The latest from Trump is if a country invests billions in the US it would not have to pay for escorts in the Strait of Hormuz.
New hit single: Dire Straits singing "Missiles for Nothing and Your Oil For Free."
| By A David Merritt (Adm) on Tuesday, July 14, 2026 - 03:19 pm: Edit |
Jeff Anderson (Jga)
The big issue with ships designed for use in the Baltic, and North Atlantic going to the SoH is the temperatures. Ships built for near arctic conditions do not generally do well in the heat.
Chuck Strong (Raider)
Not every country has the resources to build units that might need to go fight in many adverse conditions, and concentrate their resources for where they are. Sweden's economy is roughly 800 billion, ours is 32 trillion.
Now if Europe was serious about being on the world stage militarily, they would produce a joint military force capable of performing on the world stage.
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, July 14, 2026 - 03:41 pm: Edit |
NATO should not (and doesn't have to) run on an agreement of 100%. Any few nations that decide to send ships can send them and form a NATO command to control them. Sweden is not obligated to send paratroopers to Turkey but doesn't need Hungary's permission to do so.
| By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, July 14, 2026 - 03:44 pm: Edit |
Chuck - I am not saying it is correct or right - but several NATO nations conisder the the Iran conlfict as being an agggresive act by the US and Israel - and generally the majority of the public of those nations are NOT wanting to get involved in an aggresive action.
Therefore those nations Govermants are following the will of their people.
If NATO said 'it had to be done' - the Governments can state they are honouring their NATO committments.
If NATO (or Individually nations) did agree to send ships - I 100% agree with SVC and Costa.
What is needed - is cheap Frigates - modest Radar, Most Sonar - Gun Weapons backed by some miissiles.
Alas - Cheap 'doesn't pay for the Defence Industries and supporting industries Christmas Parties' and Naval forces may not want several cheap ships - due to crew costs.
So it's a lose lose?
It's a good question to ask (and I don't have the answer) - what is the right balance of X ships, with Y Crew for Z Cost?
10 cheap ships with 10 crew might be cheaper to build than 5 OK ships with 20 crew.... but the latter is probably cheaper in ongoing costs?
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, July 14, 2026 - 03:48 pm: Edit |
TrophyLab Exposes Russian Secrets
July 14, 2026: Ukraine recently established a new website, trophylab.mod.gov.ua , which provides authorized foreign government and military officials access to a database of information on captured Russian weapons and military equipment. So far, over 200 individuals have registered in Ukraine and can now arrange guided tours and examinations of weapons and equipment in the field or in a warehouse. For those who can’t get to Ukraine, a virtual TrophyLab tour can be arranged with a TrophyLab staff member wearing the video camera and microphone. Ukraine wants to share the information worldwide. Ukrainian researchers are experienced and talented, and have locally developed tools for examining captured weapons, electronics, optics, and satellite navigation systems.
Russian weapons that were captured, often intact, and in some cases later disassembled and scrutinized. These include many drone models, a wide range of tank models, small arms, anti-tank weapons, electro-optical systems, trucks and military automobiles, radars, ELINT/Electronic Intelligence, EW/Electronic Warfare, guided bombs, ballistic and hypersonic missiles, etc., from the 1960s to last year. Note that many of the ballistic missiles and hypersonic ones were reconstructed from fragments collected at the impact site. There are numerous models of air, ground, and naval drones, many of which, as of this date, are still being used, most of them by Ukraine.
TrophyLab currently features over 150 items of Russian equipment and weapons. Ukraine has already completed over 225 research projects on Russian weapons and equipment, and this effort is still underway. Weapons include ballistic and cruise missiles, one-way attack and reconnaissance drones, air defense systems, small arms, armored vehicles, artillery systems, and electronic equipment, among other military items. These include the North Korean KN-23 short-range ballistic missile that Russia has used throughout the war. Since the war began in 2022, Ukraine has shared with its NATO allies what it knew about Russian weapons and what it encountered.
TrophyLab displayed weapons used to attack Ukrainian soldiers and civilians, so that the world could see what the country had to suffer as a result of Russian aggression. Ukrainians will not forget, and they want the rest of the world to realize that Russia will attack again, and not just against Ukraine.
TrophyLab is the embodiment of the Ukrainian desire to share battlefield lessons and experience with its NATO allies, as it has done throughout the conflict with the rapid and continuing developments in drone warfare. Ukraine invented drone warfare and has much to tell and still more to offer.
FYEO
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, July 14, 2026 - 03:49 pm: Edit |
Paul, your observation on cheap ships is interesting, but it would take a year or two to actually build the first one, and presumably this will be over by then. (Please, God, do not let Jessica quote this back to me two years from now when it's still not over.)
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, July 14, 2026 - 03:51 pm: Edit |
Record Ukrainian Drone Attacks In June
July 14, 2026: Last month, Ukrainian drones hit more than 200,000 Russian targets. This killed or wounded nearly 30,000 troops and, increasingly, demoralized the survivors. This explains the growing number of Russian deserters and surrenders to Ukrainian soldiers.
The number of attacks has been growing over the last few months, causing panic in the Russian High Command. The attacks have made it difficult, and sometimes impossible, to deliver supplies and reinforcements to Russian front-line units. Long-range Ukrainian drones have, over the last year, continued attacking economic and military targets deep inside Russia. This has caused fuel shortages for civilians and the military alike. The attacks have caused thousands of civilians to leave the Crimean Peninsula. The Russian response has been weakening, with Ukraine carrying out up to 60 percent more drone attacks. On the ground, the growing use of wheeled or tracked ground drones has made it easier to resupply Ukrainian soldiers. Armed combat drones are covering more of the front line. The drone operators are dozens of kilometers away, but each operator can monitor the camera feeds from several drones and activate the drone weapons as needed.
Ukraine uses 30 percent more drones than Russia. In the first half of 2025, there was a sharp increase in Russian use of attack drones, primarily FPV\First Person View drones. The Ukrainian drone advantage slowed, stopped, and sometimes reversed the momentum of the Russians' offensive operations
It’s a similar situation with the daily percentage of drones operating with FOG\Fiber Optic Guidance. These drones are controlled via a fiber-optic cable that can be many kilometers long. FOG drones cannot be jammed. For Ukraine, 32 percent of drones use FOG guidance while the Russians use only 24 percent. Use of FOG drones by both sides has been so extensive that birds use discarded fiber-optic wires for bird nests.
The Ukrainians were faster at developing innovations in drone design. The Russians imitate this progress but are always a few months or more behind.
In some parts of the 1,100-kilometer front line, the Russians can concentrate more drones than the Ukrainians have for offensive operations. There are fewer Russian offensives due to high casualties, troop shortages, and declining troop morale. The Ukrainians have taken advantage of this and are reclaiming more territory from the Russians. At this rate, the Russians might be pushed out of Ukraine by 2027. One factor making this possible is the increasing number of long-range attacks against Russian refineries, pipelines, weapons, and electronics manufacturing. Last month, in a particularly bold move, Ukraine sent nearly a hundred drones against the Plesetsk Cosmodrome, which is 1,500 kilometers from Ukraine. While the Russians admitted they had to delay some operations at Plesetsk, it remains unclear how much, if any, damage the drones caused to the facility.
These Ukrainian attacks deep inside Russia are disrupting Russian efforts to use their air defense systems effectively, or at all. The S300 and S400 air defense batteries have to be moved by rail or barge to new locations. The Ukrainian drones are now equipped with guidance systems that can attack one of several targets, depending on which has the fewest air defenses protecting it. The air defense crisis also means that front-line troops are often left with little or no air defense systems.
For Russia, the most damaging Ukrainian innovation in drone warfare is their use of AI/Artificial Intelligence for drone targeting systems. The AI drone contains a targeting system that finds targets. The AI drone operator confirms which targets are real, and once a target is confirmed, the AI targeting system needs no further communication with anyone. It is resistant to all forms of jamming.
Modern warfare has been radically changed by the introduction of FPV drones. These drones are an omnipresent aerial threat to armored vehicles and infantry on foot. Each FPV drone costs less than a thousand dollars. Operators use the drone's video camera to see what is below and locate targets. Armed FPV operators are several kilometers away to decide when their FPV drones will drop explosives on an armored vehicle, which has thinner armor on top, or on infantry in the open or in trenches. To do so, the drone operators often operate in pairs, with one flying behind the other and concentrating on the big picture while seeking a likely target. When the reconnaissance drone finds such a target, the armed drone is directed to it. The two FPV drone operators are usually in the same room or tent and can take control of new drones, which are lined up and brought outside for launch when needed. The reconnaissance drones are often unarmed, so they can spend more time in the air searching for a target.
FYEO
| By Jessica Orsini (Jessica_Orsini) on Tuesday, July 14, 2026 - 04:26 pm: Edit |
"(Please, God, do not let Jessica quote this back to me two years from now when it's still not over.)"
For what it's worth, Steve, I well and truly hope I don't have the opportunity to do so.
| By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, July 14, 2026 - 04:32 pm: Edit |
SVC
Warships - yes.
Could you 'convert' either Patrol Ships (Coast Guard/Fishery Protection*) ships for the role quicker?
* - Yes some are already fairly good multi-role ships - so the less able ones....
And accepting 'someone needs to sign them off' - could you pick up say 40 Private 20 Metre aprox Ocean going Motor Boats** - reinforce the forward deck and Sun Deck - to mount a 20 mm Cannon and a HMG - it's already got Radar - and often a 4-6 metre tender and use them?
** - We are always watching the entertainment program 'Below Decks' - they generally use bigger ships - but they give the general idea.
£800,000 would buy a used 18 metre 10 birth motor boat - £200,000 on re-inforcing two deck area - and bingo - you have an armed Patrol Vessel!!)
£50 million quid - and Bobs your Auntiie!
4 Private SHip Yards doing the 'deck re-inforcing' (and building an ammo locker etc) - 7 days per ship>??
They could be arriving by mid August fairly easily - and you just string them out - 1 Destroyer supported by 6 Patrol Craft..... - positioned well - they form two lines to create a safe(ish) corridor in a key area?
After Peace is declared - you then flog them off to friendly nations as Fishery Protection vessels (as I would guess they would be expensive to maintain AND may be crew heavy??)
| By MarkSHoyle (Bolo) on Tuesday, July 14, 2026 - 06:14 pm: Edit |
Have to wonder, if the USN thinking of doing another Pegasus Hydrofoil....
| By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, July 14, 2026 - 07:22 pm: Edit |
Mark Hoyle:
Check out the Navy.mil site.
The Mark VI is a highly advanced class of 85-foot patrol boat used by the U.S. Navy for littoral and riverine operations.
Designed for speed and combat, each vessel costs roughly $15 million and can reach speeds over 35 knots.
These vessels are used for critical infrastructure protection, high-value unit escorts, and visit, board, search, and seizure (VBSS) missions.
Armament: Heavily armed with remotely operated 25mm chain guns, heavy machine guns, and grenade launchers.
They do not appear to be armed with missiles.
| By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, July 14, 2026 - 07:38 pm: Edit |
In other news, the Israel Defense Force (IDF) released video of a terrorist missile base underneath Beaufort Castle in Lebannon. (A 900 year old fortress)
Estimated by the investigators to have been constructed over a 10 to 15 year period by Iran backed terrorists, the tunnel complex had electric generators, ventilation systems, water and sewage plumbing, barracks and magazines still holding parts, fuel and warheads for various Iranian designed and manufactured missiles.
The base appeared to have been abandoned several months ago (apparently at the time Iranian funding of various proxy terror groups stopped.)
The IDF has not yet released any information about what they will do with the captured facility.
Video of the IDF inspection team was broadcast on Fox News.
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, July 15, 2026 - 03:11 pm: Edit |
Israel: Israeli Drones And AI In The Iran War
July 15, 2026: During the recent Iran War, the American and Israeli forces that attacked Iran had friends and allies inside Iran. These were the decades-old and loosely associated group of Iranians who worked for Israel as part of a long-range effort to destroy the current religious dictatorship and replace it with a democracy or even the Pahlavi monarchy the Islamic Ayatollahs displaced.
During the recent attacks on Iranian air defense and other military targets, the Israeli operative network had reported the current locations of key leadership targets plus the location of scientists and managers of Iranian weapons programs. The recent attacks included drones smuggled into Iran for Israeli operatives to use against moving or difficult-to-reach targets Israeli warplanes could not hit.
Another innovation was the use of AI-enhanced software to analyze all the targeting information gathered by satellite, aerial, and on-the-ground reconnaissance and surveillance. In the past, this was a time-consuming process, but the Israeli AI system automatically received all targeting information and combined that with similar older information. The result was a list of targets to be hit as well as who or what should be assigned to destroy the target. This included the drones operated by Israeli operatives inside Iran. Israeli and American warplanes took care of most of the targets, but Mossad, the Israeli CIA, had its own evolving list that was taken care of by whoever or whatever was available.
One thing Mossad and its operatives inside Iran had discovered before the war began was that Iranian air defense systems were in bad shape and not fully recovered from the June 2025 American Israeli airstrikes. China had quickly sent replacement systems, but the poor performance of the Chinese air defense equipment against Israeli aircraft countermeasures meant Iranian airspace was relatively safe. The only exception was helicopters or jets flying low enough for shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles to bring down targets. During the Iran war, the Americans lost 17 aircraft, eight shot down and seven destroyed on the ground. In at least one case, shoulder-fired missiles were used.
FYEO
| By Jessica Orsini (Jessica_Orsini) on Wednesday, July 15, 2026 - 08:38 pm: Edit |
Folks, if you would, please take a look at the 2027 NDAA, H.R.8800 (it passed the House yesterday), and head on down to Section 219, the United States-Israel Defense Technology Cooperation Initiative. (For the love of the Elements, please go to the bill itself, not to any number of news articles or opinion pieces or whatnot about it; those go wildly off the rails in every direction.)
I'd like to get a general feel for how folks here are parsing this section.
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, July 15, 2026 - 09:47 pm: Edit |
Here are some links...
https://armedservices.house.gov/uploadedfiles/fy27_ndaa_chairmans_mark_-_final.pdf
That one is the closest I can find to actual text of section 224, which later got renumbered as 219, but I don't know if it's the final copy; you need to go to page 42 of the 504 pages. If Jessica has the actual text she's welcome to post it.
https://www.aipac.org/memos/america-israel-defense-ndaa
https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/us-israel-military-merger
https://quincyinst.org/research/cooperation-without-oversight-the-united-states-israel-defense-technology-cooperation-initiative/#the-us-can-already-access-israeli-military-technologynbsp
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, July 15, 2026 - 09:50 pm: Edit |
You can tell it's really got a lot of people upset by the number of articles commenting on it. I read it, and the obtuse language was beyond me. My reaction is "Yeah, so?" as I cannot find anything but banality.
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, July 15, 2026 - 09:53 pm: Edit |
New developments in the drone war.
Ukraine has a new system in which a vehicle is surrounded by 32 "things" which explosively throw a net about 30 meters, apparently intending to ensnare an approaching suicide drone, stop the propellers, and cause it to crash, while pushing it away from the vehicle.
No end of machineguns, automatic shotguns, the cluster of darts projectors are in testing or starting to get to field units on the Ukrainian side. Many have detection systems able to identify a drone and fire the weapons automatically.
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, July 15, 2026 - 09:59 pm: Edit |
This link has a lot of new technology items with non-AI photos and videos. Included are the notes above and drones armed with 12ga shotguns. Somewhere in there (1:15) was the Russia air defense merry go round.
| By Jessica Orsini (Jessica_Orsini) on Thursday, July 16, 2026 - 10:09 am: Edit |
Steve, I'm unfortunately fluent in legalese (that's what serving four terms on a city council will do to you). Section 219, as near as I can parse it, is primarily about joint R&D efforts, but it does, in subsections b. and c., wander into some territory that looks suspiciously like melding our intel systems. Mossad has been dreaming about (and using agents to try to get) this kind of access for decades.
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, July 16, 2026 - 02:13 pm: Edit |
Cuban Chinese Intelligence Facilities
July 16, 2026: Last year the Americans invaded the South American nation of Venezuela and captured its president, Nicolas Maduro, and his wife. The American Special Operations team had to kill dozens of Cuban bodyguards during this successful operation. The American President also threatened nations that might aid Cuba with harsh economic sanctions if they did so. Venezuela was the main source of free and below-market-price oil for Cuba, whose communist regime had bankrupted the nation. The American oil embargo was not absolute. At the end of March, a Russian oil tanker carrying 100,000 tons of unrefined petroleum was allowed to deliver its cargo to Cuba. This fuel was gone within a few months, leaving Cuba destitute and desperate. America wants a new, non-Communist government in Cuba, but the well-entrenched Communists are not willing to cooperate, at least not yet.
Meanwhile, Cuba has become the central asset for a Chinese SIGINT/SIGnals Intelligence site that gathers information on American military operations throughout the US southeast. China built the island’s telecommunications infrastructure. Cuba’s sole internet provider is the Chinese telecommunications giant Huawei. Cuba uses Huawei software to filter internet searches. By doing so, China created a system capable of surveillance and much more. This was obvious in mid-2021, when Cuban government officials shut down internet and telephone services, preventing Cuban protestors from communicating with anyone outside their island country.
Cuba first became a site for foreign intelligence collection in 1962 when its then-ally, the Soviet Union, established a SIGINT operation there. This facility remained operational until 2001, when Russia increased aid to Cuba in an effort to compete with the Chinese.
When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, along with most of the Communist governments worldwide, Russian economic aid to Cuba ceased. This aid would not have been needed if Fidel Castro had not overthrown the Cuban government in 1959 and replaced an efficient market economy with a disastrous Communist planned economy. That meant Cuba went from the most prosperous economy in the Caribbean to one of the least. The Cuban Communist government relied on Russian economic aid to remain functional. When that aid disappeared after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, Cuba underwent a decade of poverty. When the Russian economy recovered in the 21st Century, aid shipments for Cuba resumed. When Russia began its aggression against Ukraine in 2014, the Western world retaliated with economic sanctions. These had an impact on Cuba, which was dependent on aid from heavily sanctioned Russia. At this point, China showed up and gradually replaced Russia as the primary diplomatic and economic ally. But even the Chinese could not overcome the American economic blockade, and the 21st Century became known in Cuba as a period of shortages, mass poverty, and intermittent collapses of the national electrical power network.
FYEO
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, July 16, 2026 - 02:15 pm: Edit |
Jessica, within limits I don't see anything I'd worry about. No intel agency wants another intel agency treating its secret assets as expendable ammunition, but intel sharing sounds good to me. They have a far better system than we do in that region.
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, July 16, 2026 - 02:15 pm: Edit |
Surface Forces : Chinese Naval Weishe
July 16, 2026: Chinese military tactics are notable for their use of a traditional Chinese tactic called Weishe, which aims to compel opponents to back down and reconsider their defense plans. Weishe also involves moving military forces and economic activity into a disputed area that will then be claimed by China because the Chinese are there. China dares the other side to attack, secure in the knowledge that this would make China the victim and help China win any ensuing battles. This tactic has become more effective as Chinese military and economic power has grown. Most of China’s neighbors lack sufficient military power to pose a credible threat to a Chinese incursion, and China often offers economic incentives or threats to its victims.
There is always the threat of encountering credible resistance from opponents, which this century are the Americans, Japan, South Korea, Indonesia, and India. At this point, the Chinese have to be careful to accurately calculate how far they can push their victims before Chinese forces must be withdrawn. Such a pull-back can have serious repercussions at home because Chinese leaders have been pushing nationalism to divert public attention from police state tactics and corruption inside China. A nationalistic atmosphere in China makes it very unpopular to back down, and that could trigger widespread unrest by people who are now reminded that their leaders are not only cowards but corrupt and police state bullies as well. Weiche is meant to avoid such catastrophes, and so far, it has done just that in the South China Sea and during the current Iran War.
FYEO
| By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Thursday, July 16, 2026 - 05:45 pm: Edit |
ADM, your point is VERY valid, but respectfully, I've seen videos now from Saab where they're showing off small patrol boats they've sold to Brazil. While the boats in question were too small for what I picture the mission being, I can't imagine Saab NOT selling patrol boats of the size I'm picturing to other tropical nations (Singapore, Indonesia, Philippines).
| By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, July 16, 2026 - 05:54 pm: Edit |
SVC
UK history for Cuba in the 1950's show a huge level of inequality.
The elite did very very very well (and it was a playground for the rich and famous) - but it was horrifically corrupt and everyone else did very badly.
"This aid would not have been needed if Fidel Castro had not overthrown the Cuban government in 1959 and replaced an efficient market economy with a disastrous Communist planned economy"
(A nation doing well doesn't overthrow it's government).
I would say though - the Revolution did appear to increase the the standard of living for the average Cuban (prior to the USSR collapse anyway) - but GDP did drop overall - due to the ineffeciency's you mentioned - in others words, they had less money than what they had previously, but it was better distributed - and it reduced the two extremes of super rich and super poor.
So do you want to be poorer - but live in a Democracy and see the Elite doing as they please - or everyone has the same 'nearly acceptable standard of living'?.
I think Cuba would have done better if it tried a Finnish/Yugoslavian' Neutrallity between 'East and West' post revolution- but I would guess, that wasn't an option ever for them?
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, July 16, 2026 - 08:33 pm: Edit |
Paul, I don't know what you are on about. I don't write the FYEO posts. I often don't even read them.
| By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Friday, July 17, 2026 - 12:43 am: Edit |
The equality that was achieved in Cuba — and the inequality that returned | Opinion By Hugo Cancio April 10, 2026 2:23 PM
Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article315354611.html#storylink=cpy
This op ed directly contradicts the position stated by Paul Howard.
While it is true that poverty was generally eliminated between 1959 (the start of the revolution) by1989 (the end of u.s.s.r. Subsidies) income disparity returned.
Various factors (discussed in the op ed published by the Miami Herald) indicate that income disparities returned to Cuba along with increase in poverty.
It appears that the onset of money being sent by relatives in the U.S. allowed those receiving the money to live an affluent life style (black market) at a time when many Cubans were experiencing the effects of deflation (the opposite of inflation).
(Note:NO AI content posted.)
| By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, July 17, 2026 - 02:16 am: Edit |
SVC
Sorry, the artcile I thought gave have the impression Cuba was a utopia prior tho the revolution - and it clearly wasn't, hence I commented.
Not responding to Mr Wile as previoualy instructed.
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