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Jessica is correct about cuts in the early 70s but leaves out other cuts and the minor detail that the cuts were not political; neither party had any interest in spending money in space.

Space funding in general and Mars in particular goes up and down with savage fury under both parties without linking more funding to one party or cuts to the other party; both increase, both cut, almost randomly. I would ask someone to hunt and post the budget numbers but they are almost irrelevant as the funding assigned to "space" gets used for no end of things that are not space. I can think of one president who diverted huge chunks of the space budget to educating the world about a totally fictitious history of which cultures had supported science and which had not. I can think of a vice president who diverted millions to producing a video intended to show the VP was some kind of science prodigy but instead made the VP look like an idiot who knew less than a 5th grader. We need to stay out of politics.

Kosta, I fear, is right. There is a reckoning due as societies find out just how much of the last 50 years budgets were wasted on nonsense, by both parties. Who can name a dozen American cities that are either going to go bankrupt or turn into empty ghost towns as everyone leaves for better-run cities.

Carl, I fear, is also right. Climbing Everest was great, and it didn't involve much taxpayer money. Exploring the new world and building trade routes was for profit not science. The moon and Mars were "general knowledge and showing off technology" rather than profit making enterprises. Whether we can make a profit mining the moon is unknown. Mining Mars for anything other than supporting Martian colonies is a pipe dream.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, June 14, 2026 - 11:39 pm: Edit

I would have to admit that a good case can be made to totally shut down manned space and just do the robot thing for the next 50 years and see if someone invents a better spaceship engine.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, June 15, 2026 - 12:51 am: Edit

Steve, have you seen this?

Google inquiry:

Quote:” NASA is actively advancing both Nuclear Thermal Propulsion (NTP) and Nuclear Electric Propulsion (NEP).

Key recent milestones include cold-flow testing of a full-scale flight reactor by NASA, and a 120 kW test of a prototype lithium-fed engine at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

1. Nuclear Thermal Propulsion (NTP)The Technology: Pumps liquid hydrogen through a compact nuclear reactor core. The reactor splits uranium atoms to generate extreme heat, supercharging the hydrogen gas and pushing it out of the nozzle at high speeds.

Testing Milestones: Engineers at NASA completed cold-flow testing at Test Stand 400 at the Marshall Space Flight Center. These were the first tests of a full-scale flight reactor engineering unit since the 1960s.

Fuel Testing: Industrial partners such as General Atomics have successfully exposed specialized nuclear fuels to hot hydrogen flows (exceeding 4,200°F) to ensure they can survive deep-space environments.

2. Nuclear Electric Propulsion (NEP)The Technology: Uses a nuclear fission reactor to generate massive amounts of electrical energy. This electricity is then used to power high-efficiency electric ion thrusters.

Testing Milestones: NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory successfully tested a prototype lithium-fed
magnetoplasmadynamic (MPD) thruster. The engine reached 120 kW of power, making it over 25 times more powerful than the electric thrusters currently used on any active agency spacecraft.”

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, June 15, 2026 - 02:30 am: Edit

Sexy

1960's 'Space Travel' was Sexy

1970's 'Space Travel' wasn't.

1980's - Other than the Shuttle briefly - Space Travel wasn't.

1990's to 2010's. Nope - Still not Sexy

Late 2010's and 2020's - Atleast we had competiion with various Billionairs trying to make it Sexy...... and shoot me - has Elon Musk succeded in making it Sexy again?

The Various rocket launches being back on TV (other than your 'celebrity crew' - when did that last happen???), clearly shown people are interested - and people watched Artemis on mass.

Is Space Travel Sexy again?

Next 18 months is key - boots on the moon and pre-manned flights to Mars...... so people will watch.

The queston (or issue - and accepting all the valid points raised) - Governments seem to have very little interest in Space (burning $50 bills is 'fuel' is probably nearly as cheap than actual Rocket Fuel ) and the costs eye watering - do you want $100 billion spent on something worthwhile on Earth or £100 billion to send 6 people to Mars?

So making any Moon or Mars Mission 'someone' pay for itself is clearly the end result for Commercial organisations.

And using the the new world reminder, how happy are 'we' - that the likely first missions to the Moon or Mars will be their to plunder/pillage resources fron the 'new world' - or claims of "we own these new lands - go and find your own lands" will be made?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, June 15, 2026 - 06:49 am: Edit

Jeff, yes, seen it, maybe some day it will solve one of many problems in the Mars trip. Ot there today.

Paul,I believe I said that, doctor.

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica_Orsini) on Monday, June 15, 2026 - 08:41 am: Edit

Steve: I wasn't limiting my comment to the U.S.; funding for space exploration fell off globally in the early '70s. Nor was I in any way implying that it was political (at least, beyond the non-partisan politics of global economics).

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, June 15, 2026 - 02:31 pm: Edit

I know, Jessica, but I wanted people to see the whole thing, not one decade. I got my info from Zubrin, the ambassador from Mars.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, June 15, 2026 - 02:45 pm: Edit

The younger one, or the old one?

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Monday, June 15, 2026 - 02:46 pm: Edit

Mars

I think there is chance of it happening in the next two to three decades, IF SpaceX and China get into a space race to see who gets to Mars first. I do not really see anyone else with both the resources and desire to do so that fast.

Debt issues

At this point we need to do post WW II tax rates that can only be used to pay down debt, once paid off we can drop the tax rate back down to where it actually covers expenses.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, June 15, 2026 - 03:22 pm: Edit

ADM: You tread on the edge of politics, but I will (while shutting down that chain of thought) note that I might agree but only if the countries/cities/states immediately balance their budgets without new taxes or borrowing by spending cuts such as removing from their spending that stupid stuff that accomplishing nothing other than funneling money to supporters and anything that just isn't essential (e.g., Science Fiction Poetry Contest, Teapot Museum) and drastically reform civil service pensions including retroactively removing any bonuses or overtime from pension calculations. It should also include no more civil service pensions for new hires; they can contribute to IRAs and draw Social Security benefits like everyone else.

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Monday, June 15, 2026 - 04:18 pm: Edit

Politics

Fair enough. Everyone tends to add budget items for pet projects. So I did not think it was political.

The rest.

Great additions to my suggestion. Lets add elected positions as well.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, June 15, 2026 - 10:01 pm: Edit

Add them in what way? Oh, the retirement thing? Agreed. That has been a long-sought goal of mine.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Monday, June 15, 2026 - 10:38 pm: Edit

Mankind is rushing at quite the rate to produce our successors as the dominant lifeform on Earth (AI), a lifeform that will be far more reasonably capable of exploring space and developing new technologies to take them beyond the Solar System.

Let's hope we write them to regard us as Drex regard Drexari.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Tuesday, June 16, 2026 - 12:36 am: Edit

And not how SkyNet regards Humans?

By Steve Stewart (Stevestewart) on Tuesday, June 16, 2026 - 06:22 am: Edit

I am horrified that Steve Cole thinks a teapot museum isn't worthwhile. The Brits are shuddering in horror!

There is a pencil museum in the Lake District (just south of the Scotland / England border). I've never visited it, but I suspect it's probably less interesting than a teapot museum. Not that I've visited one of those either...

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, June 16, 2026 - 08:44 am: Edit

Spending to funnel money to supporters is a problem for all politicians. In the most recent news, the "Anti Weaponization Fund" is seen by some as such. I'm sure a little research will turn up similar stuff in past administrations.

Basically all States are required to have balanced budgets.

"Forty-nine U.S. states and the District of Columbia have legal requirements to balance their budgets. Vermont is the only state without a statutory or constitutional balanced-budget requirement, although it traditionally balances its budget anyway."

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, June 16, 2026 - 09:25 am: Edit

I don't think this is political.

States and Taxes - accepting there may be a desire to balance it all, it can't be at the State level.

As an example - if Cold Weather kills every Orange Tree in Florida - that will cause massive losses to Florida.... and that same Weather Front allows the biggest and best bumber crop for Cranberries in Maine/New England.... whay do you do?

(Replace any two states you like )

Back on Space Travel -I think ADM has hit the nail on the head - if two parties want to do something first - they will spend big - who pays for it, is another question.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Tuesday, June 16, 2026 - 10:30 am: Edit

>> but with only circa 10% of the shares released, they probably could have sold 30%, due to the likely demand over the next 6 months?

I read the IPO was closer to 4%. SpaceX almost certainly could have offered more, but the deal was structured so as to offer multiple tranches over the next 2-10 years. So instead of a typical big day 1 IPO dump where the price typically goes up briefly then down, the 4% offering didn't really meet market demand. So there's future interest to be tapped later at much higher prices. That's more capital for SpaceX to further expand (factories, launch sites, etc) in the future. And more profit for the employee shareholders.

It's not inconceivable that future offerings could go for $250 - $400 per share. SPCX got around $75B for this tranche. Perhaps $100 - $250B for future ones? When a company like that has such an ambitious industrial plan they need capital, just like a railroad of old, but in space.

--Mike

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, June 16, 2026 - 02:43 pm: Edit

Paul, here's a secret about balanced state budgets.

Accounting tricks.

One state sent a bill to the Feds for money their imagination said they were owed and while they knew the Feds would refuse to pay it and had no reason to pay it, they counted the bill as cash receipts.

Balancing the budget can include issuing bonds to borrow money. ADM and I were talking about making them balance spending with revenue without borrowing money.

States have a tendency to get one-time income items and use them to fund one year of a permanent every year program. In the second year, they say "shucks, we'll just have to borrow money or raise taxes."

Many states have "rainy day funds" from previous year surpluses. These are often drained to making up shortfalls in the budget.

Many states have pension programs for state workers. This involves tons of money paid into an account against future pension payments. Many states raid this fund them ask the Feds for a bailout.

Many states are ordered by the Feds to spend money without the Feds actually giving them the money. These are called "unfunded mandates" and are a political nightmare.

All budgets are based on estimated spending and estimated revenue. It's fairly easy to just fudge the estimates to look balanced when everyone knows there is a deficit. The deficit then becomes an IOU to some big bank or hedge fund.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, June 16, 2026 - 02:46 pm: Edit

And Paul, state budgets don't need to be in this topic, which is space. Indeed, there is no topic on this BBS where state budgets fit.

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Hardcore) on Wednesday, June 17, 2026 - 12:46 pm: Edit

Under disasters?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, June 17, 2026 - 02:49 pm: Edit

Carl, no, state budgets are political and don't belong on this BBS.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, July 14, 2026 - 03:59 pm: Edit

Asteroid Apophis will pass within 20,000 miles of Earth on Friday, April 13, 2029. It is about 400m across, not a dinosaur killer but big enough to get your attention if it hits the blue marble. While there is no risk of impact in the next 100 years (as far as the math can be accurately calculated) there is another issue. Apophis seems to be a "rubble pile" that is a loose collection of rocks and sand and dust and boulders stuck together by gravity, with the cohesive qualities of wet sand. Further, it seems to be two asteroids stuck together very very weakly. No one knows what will happen when it get tugged by Earth gravity. At the least, this will rearrange some surface features. At worst, it might pull some of the rocks and sand away from the mass and turn Apophis from a rubble pile to a cloud of rocks and stuff that spreads over an area big enough that the next time it comes close (2038?) we could get a spectacular meteor show. I doubt I'll be alive then, but I could be (grandpa died at 93). So if I'm not, open a cold something, enjoy the show, and think of all the fun I gave you over the decades that you allowed me to avoid holding a real job.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Tuesday, July 14, 2026 - 07:07 pm: Edit

Steve, I think it was well Worth You not having to get a real job.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Tuesday, July 14, 2026 - 10:33 pm: Edit

IIRC, there's something like a one in fifty thousand chance that Apophis will fly through a keyhole and, six years later, may hit Earth.

Then again, IF I remember right, the stories I read about it were that it was supposed to make its closest pass on Tax Day (the fifteenth).

It's not much of a discrepancy, SVC, but there IS one, so I suspect my info may be bad.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, July 15, 2026 - 12:40 am: Edit

The info has been refined continually and your info is indeed out of date.