| By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, September 11, 2025 - 08:19 pm: Edit |
Well deserved for his ability to speak objective truth plainly and effectively.
…and horribly, that why he was taken out — because he spoke truth and they had no effective counter.
| By A David Merritt (Adm) on Thursday, September 11, 2025 - 09:22 pm: Edit |
As shown by the quotes that Ms Orsini posted above, he was man who used his talents to spread hatred and vitriol.
| By MarkSHoyle (Bolo) on Thursday, September 11, 2025 - 10:02 pm: Edit |
Mr Kirk was a man who continually walked into Lions' Den after Lion's Den and addressed whoever stood up to debate him....
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, September 11, 2025 - 10:47 pm: Edit |
There is a long long way from spreading hate to deserving assassination.
| By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, September 11, 2025 - 10:54 pm: Edit |
Tell that to the little girl seen in a picture kissing her father. I'm sure he filled her with hatred and vitriol on a daily basis. I'm also sure your words will comfort her, knowing that she will be preserved from the evil her father would have inflicted on her as she grows up without him.
Quote:As shown by the quotes that Ms Orsini posted above, he was man who used his talents to spread hatred and vitriol.
| By Jean Sexton Beddow (Jsexton) on Thursday, September 11, 2025 - 11:16 pm: Edit |
I think that Ted has said what needs to be said. Let's give this topic a rest.
Jean
WebMom
| By A David Merritt (Adm) on Thursday, September 11, 2025 - 11:35 pm: Edit |
It is, nor am I happy, or pleased, with Mr Kirk's death. The sad reality is that this is likely to encourage more of this sort of violence.
Quote:By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, September 11, 2025 - 10:47 pm:
There is a long long way from spreading hate to deserving assassination.
Quote:By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, September 11, 2025 - 10:54 pm:
Demonizing others, and the increasingly black-and-white polarization of our society, is precisely what has lead to the the uptick in political violence. I'm asking everyone to stop.
Quote:For example, this kind of talk makes me ask questions like, do you approve of Mr. Kirk's murder? Do you think it's right to shoot people in the throat because you think they're speaking what you think is evil?
This does go both ways, with those who do not see the other as human.
Quote:I'd guess the answer is no to both questions. But people who read what you write are most likely to 1) agree and maybe hope that more of those evil conservatives get assassinated, 2) demonize you in return, or 3) oversimplify your character.
Fair, I should not have responded to Raider's apparent admiration for Mr Kirk, and failed at what I typed above.
Quote:One thing your message doesn't do is be persuasive to someone who doesn't already agree with you.
On this we agree, other things we could do is stop both Gerrymandering, and yes Both sides do do this rather blatantly, and stop winner take all in apportioning Electoral votes, why should Republicans in California be ignored, nor Democrats in Texas?
Quote:I have very strong opinions about certain politicians in this country. I don't want even one of them to be murdered, or even to suffer. I do want them to not win politically, but that's why we have a ballot box.
Nothing at all, however; do not expect that I will defend you when you are saying things that attack, and have a tendency to encourage violence to, my friends and family.
Quote:What happened to the notion of being willing to die to defend the right of a political opponent with whom you strenuously disagrees?
| By A David Merritt (Adm) on Thursday, September 11, 2025 - 11:37 pm: Edit |
Pardon Jean, I was typing when you posted.
| By Jessica Orsini (Jessica_Orsini) on Friday, September 12, 2025 - 07:59 am: Edit |
Sen. Markwayne Mullin (R-OK) made an unusually frank and insightful comment yesterday regarding the increase in politically-inspired violence in the U.S.:
"It's all of our faults, right? I mean, we stir up the base. If you stir up the base, what do you expect is going to happen? If you stir a fire, coals are going to come out of it. If you pour gasoline on a fire, it's going to explode. And sometimes we gaslight the base, and it's been happening a lot."
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, September 12, 2025 - 10:34 am: Edit |
Calling people Nazis and Fascists (when those terms do not even apply) and constantly saying that this or that is a threat to democracy (which just isn’t true) fuels the hate. That needs to stop.
| By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, September 12, 2025 - 10:34 am: Edit |
@David Merritt: Thank you for your considered and thoughtful response. I somehow suspected that was more of what you intended.
@The World:
I believe it's hard to remain calm and believe good about another person when they say something that is wrong, evil, or both (at least, in your opinion). But that is precisely what people of good will are called to do. It's hard to have a calm discussion with someone that says something you think is a source of great evil, but it's precisely those calm - and difficult - conversations which can *actually* change hearts and minds.
Anger begets anger. Violence begets violence. If conservatives or liberals - either one - became so powerful as to crush the other's concerns, the result will not be a better society, it will be more hatred and violence. The solution is to actually win hearts and minds, and to be open to the possibility that we ourselves are incorrect even on topics that are near and dear to our hearts. That doesn't mean we give up dearly held beliefs easily, only that a humble person is always willing to give fair consideration to good arguments.
Sadly, our culture, politics, and media - and frankly enemy state actors through AI - all have been doing their best to tempt us to behave in the opposite manner. The solution is to rise above simplicity and prove to those that wish us harm that our character will not be so easily manipulated.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not a pacifist. There is a time and a place where one must fight, sometimes with deadly force, to oppose evil - particularly when the enemy means you physical harm and simply will not listen to reason. However, I also think human nature makes us want to draw that line and "pull the trigger" far too quickly, particularly in a great country where freedom and free speech still ring loudly.
And that, to quote Forrest Gump, is all I have to say about that.
@Jessica:
Well spoken, Jessica - both by Sen. Mullin and your intro.
Quote:Sen. Markwayne Mullin (R-OK) made an unusually frank and insightful comment yesterday regarding the increase in politically-inspired violence in the U.S.:
"It's all of our faults, right? I mean, we stir up the base. If you stir up the base, what do you expect is going to happen? If you stir a fire, coals are going to come out of it. If you pour gasoline on a fire, it's going to explode. And sometimes we gaslight the base, and it's been happening a lot."
| By Matthew Lawson (Mglawson) on Friday, September 12, 2025 - 10:55 am: Edit |
Looks like the suspect is in custody.
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, September 12, 2025 - 11:09 am: Edit |
Jean said we were done discussing Kirk’s controversial views.
Tyler Robinson, the assassin, was arrested after his relatives turned him in, perhaps to get the $100,000 reward.
| By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, September 12, 2025 - 11:11 am: Edit |
Perhaps. Or perhaps because they thought it was the right thing to do, because sometimes even family has to be made to face the music.
Quote:Tyler Robinson, the assassin, was arrested after his relatives turned him in, perhaps to get the $100,000 reward.
| By Douglas Lampert (Dlampert) on Friday, September 12, 2025 - 12:22 pm: Edit |
I would guess that turning a relative in is hard.
I suspect it may take both "it's the right thing to do" and "We get $100,000" to make it happen. But afterward, you can more or less honestly tell yourself "It was the right thing to do, and that is why I did it."
| By Michael F Guntly (Ares) on Friday, September 12, 2025 - 12:25 pm: Edit |
This has been around for a long time, but sadly too many people ignore it:
A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
Proverbs 15:1
A hot-tempered man stirs up strife, But the slow to anger calms a dispute.
Proverbs 15:18
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, September 12, 2025 - 06:42 pm: Edit |
It was his father and minister who talked him into turning himself in.
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, September 12, 2025 - 06:54 pm: Edit |
Hate speech is bad, even if the badness is in the ear of a bystander. Even so, the constitution allows hate speech in order to avoid having a human judge decide that this viewpoint is hate but the other viewpoint is free speech. Saying someone is wrong and logically making that case is very different from saying things so ridiculously wrong that it inspires criminal acts.
Physical violence is astronomically worse, and 99% of it is from one side. There were no riots or looting by Kirk’s supporters. No leftwing speaker fears going to a conservative venue. I am just saying what we all know is true.
Jean says NO MORE on this. If I got the last word, well, I paid the bill for the website. I have let plenty of others say their piece, now let us all hold our peace.
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, September 18, 2025 - 01:22 am: Edit |
This Charlie Kirk thing has dominated the news for a week. I think we have other things the news needs to be telling us about. That said, the news coverage has been so blatantly slanted that you should all do some wide searches and read multiple sources or you could get a totally wrong impression of the incident. For example, Disney/ABC just took Jimmy Kimmel off the air indefinitely because he (JK) said that: "“The MAGA gang [is] desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them..." Anyone who has listened to the legacy media may think that as the legacy media have failed to report that the assassin was in fact a leftist from a family of mostly right-wing people.
I have to say that when I got the phone call about the assassination my response was "Who?" because I had never heard of this guy and I consider myself politically well read. I set out to find the real info rather than let Trump or Fox News assign me a feeling on the situation. Without wasting a ton of time reviewing everything CK ever said, I will comment that CK said a lot of things. Most were true, and many of those were influential in the election. Some were religious dogma I cannot accept. (My niece is not going to hell.) Some were hateful and difficult for me to hear, and CK would not have been a friend of mine. Many inaccuracies happened when CK did what Trump does all too often and repeats anything he heard that supports his cause and then finds out that the place he heard it got it wrong or made it up or didn't understand the original information. That doesn't exactly help his case or reputation.
There are reports from all over of hundreds of people being fired from their jobs or thrown out of school for celebrating the murder of Charlie Kirk. While such statements are in horrible taste, I am uncomfortable with firing someone for exercising free speech. Teachers deserve at least a stern warning to not do it again as teaching children that murdering anyone you disagree with is okay is a bad lesson plan.
None of that excuses the political violence, which is never acceptable. When someone says "John Doe is a nazi" he is saying two things: "I don't know what a nazi is" and "it's perfectly justified to murder John Doe because it would have been fine to murder baby Hitler." The terms Nazi and Fascist seem to mean anything the speaker wants them to mean.
I lay this before you not to convince anyone but to encourage everyone to gather some actual information rather than just letting some big shot politician assign a belief to you.
We now resume our blackout on Charlie Kirk news, may God rest his Soul and bless his family.
| By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, September 18, 2025 - 10:28 am: Edit |
Thank you SVC.
| By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Hardcore) on Thursday, September 18, 2025 - 11:21 am: Edit |
Well said.
| By Jessica Orsini (Jessica_Orsini) on Thursday, September 18, 2025 - 11:33 am: Edit |
I'll third what Paul and Carl said.
| By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, September 18, 2025 - 01:12 pm: Edit |
Believe nothing you hear, and only one half that you see
--Edgar Allen Poe
| By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, September 18, 2025 - 01:45 pm: Edit |
“ The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.” — Thomas Jefferson
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, September 18, 2025 - 01:52 pm: Edit |
Getting all of your news from Facebook is bad, but so it getting all of your news from Tiktok, or Fox news, or CNN, or YouTube.
I think the greatest thing I heard Charlie Kirk (or Greg Gutfeld) say was "do not let anyone assign your values, your position, or your opinion."
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