We plan to do these this fall. Here's the general concept (thanks largely to Andy Palmer).

We print a big deck of 132 cards.
This is then divided into three (44 each) or four (33 each) expansion decks, each sold separately for under $10. (Too much missing data to assign a price just now.)

One will be STAR FLEET CARRIER FORCE and one will be STAR FLEET STRIKE FORCE and I don't know what the others will be but we have a long list of possible titles. (A title has to use the format STAR FLEET XXXXX FORCE and the first three initials cannot be the same as anything else, so no A, B, or C words.)

Each will use the weapon cards from the original deck, providing mostly ship cards and "special" cards (the really wierd ones like legendary officers, organian ceasefire, klingon mutiny, etc.)

Carrier force will include a couple of carriers and several escorts for each race.

Strike force would include something, not sure what.

One or more of them will bring in the Hydrans, Lyrans, and ISC and we'll see if anybody else needs to show up. These races will (see Captain's Log) use photons, disruptors, and plasma-F/S since if you start adding new weapon cards the game crashes since the odds of drawing a matching pair of weapon and ship cards drops dramatically.

Theory would be that you can add the specials (or swap them for existing specials) and ships (or swap for existing ships).

One or two of these might include the BATS and planet cards seen previously.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 04:07 pm: Edit

Which product uses Star Fleet A____ Force? I've probably just missed it, but Star Fleet Allied Force would be a good name for the new races product.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 04:21 pm: Edit

I don't like "allied force" as it lacks punch. SFA may be used for Star Fleet Action or Star Fleet Assault so it's not available.

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 04:23 pm: Edit

Invasion Force for the new races...⁴²

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 04:27 pm: Edit

Thanks Steve. Your right, it does sound sort of blah.

Invasion Force sounds better.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 05:21 pm: Edit

Yeah, I like STAR FLEET INVASION FORCE.

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 07:31 pm: Edit

And of course, the "counter" module to Star Fleet Invasion Force would be...

Star Fleet Defense Force

Some other future possibles:

Star Fleet Recon-in-Force
Star Fleet Mobile Forces
Star Fleet Pursuit Force (fast ships, anyone?)
Star Fleet Task Force (the scenarios module?)
Star Fleet Early Force (Y-ships)

etc.,etc.

By William F. Hostman (Aramis) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 06:03 am: Edit

Star Fleet Drone Force (Kz/Kl)
Star Fleet Furry Force (Ly/Kz/Wyn)

Some other future possibility suggestions... yes, some self evident...
Star Fleet Heavy Force (Bases, DNL, BB, BCH, BTg, HDW?)
Star Fleet Light Force (Frigates and Pols?)
Star Fleet Q-ship Force (Q-Ships, Freighters, and orions...)
Star Fleet Unusual Force (Surveyors, one-offs like TK5, LDR PBB, Monsters)

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 05:30 pm: Edit

WFH: none of those sing to me.

Right now, I'm going with Star Fleet Carrier Force, Star Fleet Strike Force, and Star Fleet Invasion Force. Might need a fourth one if we split the deck we print into 4 parts.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 11:21 am: Edit

Plan is to print (in September) a deck of 132 cards and divide it into three (or 44 for $12.95) or four (of 33 for $9.95) expansions.

Star Fleet Carrier Force would include carriers and escorts.

Star Fleet Strike Force would include bases, planets, commando ships, maulers, and some other things.

Star Fleet Invasion Force would include Lyran, Hydran, and maybe ISC.

fourth expansion if there is one, we haven't released the name.

Most packs would have a lot of ships, no weapons (use existing weapons cards), and some special event cards.

Current theory is to keep the Hydrans, Lyrans, and ISC using the existing weapon cards with the special rules in Captain's Log. The problem with adding fusion, hellbore, and other cards is this. Given the current SFBF1 cards, a certain percentage of ships have disruptors (14 out of 36) and a certain percentage of the weapon cards are disruptors (8 out of 52). This means that the odds of matching up a disruptor ship and a disruptor card are 14/36 x 8/52 = 6%. If you then add six fusion ships and six fusion cards, you have 14/42 x 8/58 = 4.6% and the game doesn't work. In theory we could tell you to remove all disruptor ships and cards and add the fusion ships and cards, but nobody would actually do that and everybody would be unhappy about the game not working.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 12:08 pm: Edit

Star Fleet Force Modernization - with X-ships, megafighters and expanded PF rules?

By Robert Snook (Verdick) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 01:29 pm: Edit

Or call it Star Fleet Future Force

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 01:50 pm: Edit

Star Fleet Extreme Force

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 02:05 pm: Edit

SVC,

As was discussed before, it's my belief like yours that just having the new races use the same weapon cards is definitely the way to go. But it might also be worth printing a few more of the basic weapon cards for two reasons:

1. Increase the chance by a few percentage points for getting a photon or disruptor or ?, thereby making the game ever so slightly more deadly...and exciting (if you want to maintain balance with the ship mix, just add 2 or 3 more of the defensive-type cards too).

2. You could ID on the new cards that they are to be used with the new weapon system. For example, instead of the card just saying "DISRUPTOR" it could say "DISRUPTOR (or Fusion Beam)", or something like that. Wouldn't require new art (would it?), just a small addition on the re-printing of the same card, I would think.

Using your base figures and the addition of, say 2 more disruptor cards and 6 fusion ships, would increase the percent chance from 14/36 x 8/52 = 6% to 20/42 x 10/54 = about 9%. That's of course without consideration of adding anything else...

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 03:41 pm: Edit

Rich.

I think your point #2 can be handled by printing a single card for each new weapon that shows the graphics and includes all the pertinant information, including which 'standard' weapons cards it uses.

For point #1, if you add 2 Weapon cards and add 2 defensive cards, you're not really changing the odds, just increasing the size of the deck. I suspect that Carrier Wars will make the game far deadlier, since more units will be able to attack WITHOUT using cards (assuming no change to carrier fighter rules).

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 04:59 pm: Edit

Having talked to Andy before, I think what he is referring to by "printing a single card" is a reference card, not a card shuffled into the deck. Some might be confused by this.

We should certainly test Star Fleet Carrier Force both ways, with and without carrier strike cards.

Assuming 33 cards, we might have....
2 fed carriers, 3 fed escorts
2 klingon carriers, 3 escorts
2 romulan carriers, 3 escorts
2 gorn carriers, 3 escorts
2 kzinti carriers, 3 escorts
1 tholian carrier, 2 escorts
1 orion carrier, 1 escort
3 special cards (ace pilot doubles fighter attack, SWAC shuttle disrupts fighter attack, FCR allows follow up attack).

Alternatively, we could assume a need for carrier strike cards and cut down the numbers of carriers and escorts.

Alternatively, mark all fighter factors destroyed when used and "repair" them normally under the one damage marker per turn rule.

with 44 cards, it's easy, just add 11 carrier strike cards.

By David Kass (Dkass) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 05:21 pm: Edit

Will one (all?) of the new packs come with a cleaned up full rules set?

I'd prefer for fighter strikes to stay the way they are now. Otherwise, they effectively become a new weapon type (with the same problems as discussed above).

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 05:27 pm: Edit

I suspect we'll just put a new rulebook on the web site. I've had that on my list of things to do for months.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 11:47 am: Edit

SVC:

Is the "Star Fleet XXXXX Force" format for the title an absolute requirement or is it permissable to consider slight variations like "Star Fleet Force XXXXX"?

If the latter, how about "Star Fleet Force Multiplier"?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 01:10 pm: Edit

That might work, Alan, if we end up with a third version and if we can think of anything that multiplies a force.

By Jonathan Biggar (Jonb) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 02:12 pm: Edit

Force x radius = torque?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 02:24 pm: Edit

Gee, I feel "torqued off".

By William F. Hostman (Aramis) on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 10:48 pm: Edit

Fighter suggestion:
have the fighters be a separate card, double sided, with the correct strike group... not included in shuffled piles (assumed to be with the carrier)
Side A is a ready side
Side B is an unready side (much reduced factors)

Once used, they stay unready until a repair action. If a fighter swarm card is used for resupply, ALL that player's fighter card become ready.

Will there be an Escort Targeting Rule? (Must target escorts of a carrier rather than carrier itself?)

SVC: No prob... on "Not singing"... not the first time I've not been on your wavelength... ;)

By Scott OBrien (Sao123) on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 11:37 am: Edit

IMO:

For the fourth expansion call it Star Fleet Advanced Force. (Maybe? not sure about the name)
Here are a few ideas:
1-Add Y era & X ships for all races.
2-Add a Refit card (add a bonus weapon/cloak to a given vessel following normal refit rules)
3-Add the SFG in this deck.
4-possibly add the andromedans?


As far as the waepon cards for any of the expansions...An idea might be to create dual weapon cards. (Example this card can be either a phaser or a PPD) include X number of dual weapon cards...and remove some of the single weapon cards included in the first deck, thus keeping the rations the same.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 10:08 am: Edit

SVC:

Regarding my post on 26 March - "Star Fleet Force Multiplier", I had a few ideas in mind that might qualify as force multipliers. I have no idea if these would be unbalancing, or break the game in some way. They may well also be things you have already thought of. But just in case, here goes:

1. Admiral - Effect is to allow several ships to combine their fire.

2. Legendary Navigator - Allows one ship to move to or from reserve as a "free move".

3. Scout - A ship card. Has either one or two Special Sensors, which are damaged like any other system. Has both offensive and defensive uses. Offensively, If you have a Scout, enemy may not play ECM card unless he also has a Scout with at least as many Spec Sensors. Defensively, reduces all incoming damage by number of available Spec Sensors. Also, if you play an ECM card while using a Scout, effect is doubled (instead of reducing damage by number of Special Sensors) unless enemy also has Scout. All Scout benefits lost when all Spec Sensors destroyed.

4. Escort - Ship card. Assign to protect one of your other ships. Protected ship cannot be attacked unless Escort has taken at least 50% damage. Drone, Plasma Torp, or Fighter attacks against escort or protected ship do two fewer damage points.

5. FCR - Play as a Damage Control card but repairs all damaged Fighters in fleet.

I have no idea whether any of these would actually work in the game.