New game "Wings of Star Fleet".

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 09:25 am: Edit

Shapeways < Miniatures
"1/200" 128 Results in SciFi
"1/270" 782 Results in SciFi
"1/285" 503 Results in SciFi
"1/300" 303 Results in SciFi

"6mm" 918 Results in SciFi
"15mm" 239 Results in SciFi
"20mm" 56 Results in SciFi
"25mm" 21 Results in SciFi
"28mm" 370 Results in SciFi
"30mm" 53 Results in SciFi

"1/3125" 70 Results in SciFi
"1/3788" 85 Results in SciFi


1/285, 1/300, 6mm is known as Epic Scale in SciFi gaming. Think WH40K, Dirtside, Grunt, Car Wars, Ogre Miniatures. Also popular in Micro Armor think C+C and GHQ.

15mm Classic Traveller mini and SciFi RPGs, Deckplans (1/2" Square Graphs) also used with Traveller Miniature Tapletop Rules "Striker"

20mm used with RPGs usually taller thin minis with small bases could be used on 1/2 square graphs. Think old 70s D&D, Star Trek Heritage minis.

25mm RPG minis, 80s, Traveller New Era, used with 1" Graph Deck Plans and "Striker II." 80s D&D. Taller thicker minis with 1" bases.

28mm RPG minis "heroic scale" Games Workshop minis 90s to now. TFG- Star Fleet Marines. Even taller, thicker bodies one inch bases. Can be used on one inch square graph deck plans.

30mm RPG minis, some modern minis are getting bigger barley fit on one inch bases and will barely fit on one inch square deck plans. Not next to each other. Google scale creep.

I believer the current Asmodee Star Trek RPG minis are 39mm and only scale with themselves.

By Matthew G Lawson (Mglawson) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 09:51 am: Edit

Ooooh, Wings of Star Fleet, I like the sound of that, Nick!

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 10:51 am: Edit

I have never played Wings of XYZZ so if there are going to be rules I am not the one to write them.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 10:55 am: Edit

Maybe "Figthers of Star Fleet?" so Wings doesn't sue.

This page mentions that the Star Wars 1/270 minis are all over the place for scale- http://www.rebelscale.com/scale-lists/fantasy-flight/

If the shuttlecraft measured 7 meters long,
at 1/300 it would be 23.0mm
at 1/285 it would be 24.6mm
at 1/270 it would be 25.9mm
at 1/200 it would be 35.0mm

In my opinion 1/200 would look too big for sure. I think 1/300 would look too small when compared to the other sizes. I think 1/285 would be the best size as it would match other 1/285 minis but could fudge well for 1/300 and 1/270. I don't think 1/300 can fudge for 1/200 or 1/270 very well and I don't think 1/200 can fudge for 1/300 or 1/285 very well.

By Matthew G Lawson (Mglawson) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 11:25 am: Edit

I think Shawn likes 1/285....;)

By Andrew E Schwenzer (Andrew_Cluetain) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 11:32 am: Edit

In response to jean's question, 6mm (1/285) and 1/270 are totally fudgeable, in my opinion. I come from battletech, and as I explained earlier, those have scale shifts regularly. My vote is for 1/285.

By Chris Nasipak (Ecs05norway) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 11:54 am: Edit

Hmmm. 4-inch length for a PF comes out to about 1/350 scale... I'd have to see what one would cost to print like that. Might have to vary the lengths to equalize volume, figure a G1 at 4" as the base... might do a Lyran PF at 3" since they're fairly wide.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 12:04 pm: Edit

If it comes down to ONLY one size I would like 1/285 as I think it is the most flexible for gaming.

In a perfect world where three lines could be supported and some more rules could be written and published I would buy 1/300 for Star Fleet Marines and other SciFi tabletop games. 1/270 for Star Fleet Fighter Wings game, and 15mm for Traveller PD and Striker. 25mm+ probably don't need minis for spaceships and vehicles and would be better served with deckplans, and resin or plasticard or cardboard walls.

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 12:32 pm: Edit

Voting for 1/270. Start with star fighters for star fighter games. Follow the money.

(Revisit it when the 6mm Star Fleet Marine players complain that the F-14D megafighter is useless for ground attack missions because the model is a millimeter too long.)

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 01:09 pm: Edit

One thing to bear in mind about scaling these models up to the truly larges sizes being discussed in some cases - The proportions and details on the small units were fudged to make them "read" at the tiny .5 or .625 inch size of the prints and also to make them printable.

Many details like stand-hole surrounding bosses, panel lines, drone fins, etc. would either be pudgy and odd looking on a scaled-up print, or would need to be adjusted in the models for use at a larger size. That is not at all impossible to do, but there would be modeler-time involved in doing it and that needs to be accounted for.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 01:42 pm: Edit

I will agree X-Wing is probably more popular than the other games, but are there rules for using SFU fighters in X-Wing and will X-Wing players who are Star Wars fans buy them, even though they are Star Trekish ships? Are Star Trek Attack Wing ships 1/270? Will those fans buy SFU fighter minis? Do they have rules to use them? Do the Star Trek Attack Wing fans buy X-Wing minis? Do the Star Wars X-Wing fans buy Star Trek minis? Do the rules crossover somehow?

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 01:57 pm: Edit

Okay gentlemen, I want you to tell me what you will BUY, NOT what you think the market will want or other players will want. If you would buy in more than one scale, tell me that, too.

1/200
1/270
1/285
1/270-285 fudge
1/300

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 02:06 pm: Edit

The Franz Joseph shuttle is 25 foot by 15 foot 6 exactly, or 7.64 x 4.7 meters, and stands 8 foot tall, or 2.44 meters.

The ADB shuttle is noticeably smaller. The one in Nick Blank's FFG deck plans 6.5 by 4.0 meters, but some of the other ADB clipart suggests it could be 6.75 x 4.25 meter, NO LARGER THAN 7.00 x 4.50 meters.

Based on SVC's clipart, which he claims it "not to scale" but appears to be pretty dang close to me, I created CAD icons for a couple fighters.

F-18: 7.50 x 5.25 meters, plus an addition meter for the nose spike. Stands 2.00 meters tall with landing gear down.

F-20 & F-20C: 5.00 x 4.00 meter (3.50 meters without drones on wingtips)

F-8: 6.50 x 3.00 meters

F-8+: 6.75 x 4.25 meters (includes drones)

Drone I: 3.00 x 0.25 / 0.75 meters (Length x Body / Fins)
Drone III: 3.75 x 0.375 / 1.50 meters
Drone: IV (Fed): 3.00 x 0.50 / 1.75 meters
Drone IV (Klingon): 4.25 x 0.375 / 1.50 meters
Drone VI: 2.00 x 0.25 / 0.50 meters
ADD dart: 1.50 x 0.20 / 0.375 meters

~~~~~~~~~~~

Chris: "4-inch length for a PF comes out to about 1/350 scale" .... NO! Please, no. Keep everything to the SAME SCALE please.

At 1:270, a Gunboat / PF / Skiff is still only about 4.5 to 5 inches long. I would much rather pay a couple bucks more and have everything in the same scale.


Garth L. Getgen

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 02:17 pm: Edit

Jean: what scale would I buy? I'm torn. I like the idea of the detail 1:200 will have, but 1:270 is the same as X-Wing, of which I have a ton of stuff. I suppose I'd prefer 1:270 in the long run. I'm probably going to buy one or two of each but I will ONLY buy everything in ONE scale even if you offer two or three different scales.

~~~~~~~~~~

Shawn: X-Wing minis are all in the same scale, or pretty dang close. Star Trek Attack Wings minis ... not so much. There are some ships that are laughably out of scale, too big or too small, with everything else. Even the ones that are "close enough" just aren't once you put them side by side.


Garth L. Getgen

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 02:31 pm: Edit

SFU fighters do not fight like World War-era fighters so it would probably be easier to create a new game.

By Dal Downing (Rambler) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 02:35 pm: Edit

I would not buy 1/200 scale difference with what I already own would drive me nuts.

I would probably not buy 1/270 unless it was absolutely the only game in town but would not be happy.

1/285 buy all day long. Match current Battalrech vheicals, armor and infantry as well as Ogre and the CinC I own.

1/300 will have to look at only if I am willing to use the for R PGs as well.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 02:44 pm: Edit

I still would like a scale comparison drawing of the same fighter or shuttle in 1/200, 1/270, 1/285, and 1/300 with a common ruler before I vote.

By Matthew G Lawson (Mglawson) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 03:20 pm: Edit

I'll get a comparison image to SVC soon, Shawn.

As for more work, well the burden is mostly on me since I have most of the fighters :D

It wasn't my intention to create more work for the other designers.

The goal was KISS, so just a simple increase in size and not worrying about adding additional detail. Aside from changing the drones, I did nothing else to the models and I think they still look nice and still will slightly smaller.

As for my designs, when I test Shapeways I get away with the bare minimum the site will typically pass so I never had plans to thin out wings, fins or whatnot; just a new mounting hole. I can't speak for the other designers on how much they leeway they give Shapeways.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 04:06 pm: Edit

I am finding it difficult to fathom the fanatical attitudes about 270 vs 285. You're talking one or two millimeters difference. If we put the same model under both scale/names you'd never know. When I cut my teeth in minis gaming in high school (50 years ago) we had piles of 1/72 infantry and 1/87 (HO) tanks and buildings that mixed together just fine. One day I bought a huge bag of off-brand infantry in a dime store and they were something like 1/70 or 1/66 (half a head taller than the Airfix infantry) but they gamed right along with the rest . There were times back then I had to mail order (an unknown and very scary practice at the time) out of a catalog with poor descriptions or drive 120 miles to a store with Roco Minitanks. I strongly suspect that either scale is going to fit in with other minis without much trouble.

Again, I just do not get the fanatical hatred of "the other scale". Like I said, back when I was fighting WWII all over every weekend, we were bloody happy to get anything close.

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 04:25 pm: Edit

For my 1/270, I just added more detail to the original 1/2-inch Omni at using dimensions down to half of what Shapways would normally allow. When I blow the model up to its new size, all of detail should print properly, Murphy willing.

We'll also have to consider how these will be based. We'll have to check the mounting peg size if odds are these won't be mounted on the default ADB stands.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 04:42 pm: Edit

Does someone that has some X-Wing miniatures and some GEVs and Tanks and Ogre infantry take some pictures and post a link to them, please?

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 04:46 pm: Edit

Agreed, Steve, there's probably not a noticeable difference between 270 and 285 (and perhaps 300) scale. Especially considering nobody really know how big "real" future-tech space fighters will be. But I'm sure there's a noticeable difference between 200 and 270 scale. As I said, I don't care which scale you pick, I want everything in that one scale. I might be willing to buy a couple items in a big scale for display, and everything in a smaller scale for gaming.

By the way, can we get a photo of Matt's shuttle next to an X-Wing and/or TIE Fighter, or would that violate some sort of copyright rule??


Garth L. Getgen

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 05:10 pm: Edit

6mm requires sophistication. It's for those those who know painting the herringbone knit on a Austo-Hungarian grenadier greatcoat requires a slightly higher gloss than the twill coats used by the conscripts. More tea?

1/285 is a manly scale. Tanks, fighter planes, battlemechs. Stomp, stomp, stomp.

1/270 is for kids. Meesa go pew, pew, pew! Zoom!

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, February 16, 2018 - 05:24 pm: Edit

Garth: I was never talking about 200 vs 270, but just those who say that 270 is right and 285 is wrong (or vice versa) when to my mind either one fits very nicely with the other.

At this point it won't be 200, but I'm still baffled why 270 isn't acceptable to the 285 crowd and why 285 isn't just fine for the 270 crowd.