Forgot to say this above, would the twin turbolifts be a problem?

I know the proposed TV Phase 2 design never made it onscreen, but didn't the USS Bozeman modification to the Reliant movie miniature add twin turbolifts in the TNG episode "Cause and Effect"?

If that's a problem, why not link the two cylinders together like a round ended cuboid? Different from the standard CA, but not the same as the Franchise movie design.

By Aaron Staley (Awwwdrat) on Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 12:13 pm: Edit

Strakes as shown are a REALLY BAD IDEA. If you go with them, they need to be as short as the two arches on the back of the Fed CA saucer on the underside. The engines looking very different are good enough.
You could make the saucer look thinner. After all new technology takes up less space. For example, cell phones of the 80s and cell phones of now.
A following thought, no one is going to not buy x-ships for lack of strakes. Whereas quite a few may seek alternatives. Be warned.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 02:05 pm: Edit

Saucer thickness is at the minimum for reliable printing and has been since the original Fed CA.

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 02:52 pm: Edit

While I'm in the camp that believes the new engines and struts are sufficient to make this ship stand out this won't work as well for other empires such as the Lyrans, Klingons, Jindarians, and ISC (with engines on the bottom) and Tholians (with internal engines).

By Aaron Staley (Awwwdrat) on Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 03:37 pm: Edit

Sleeker hull designs can be used. After all; this is a "design bureau", yes?

By Steven Zamboni (Szamboni) on Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 04:15 pm: Edit

Tholians X-ships have a lot of exposed fin for strakes and paneling, and I've always wanted add a rake to the fin tips anyways.

The ISC will likely be focused on the booms, with strakes and reshaping how the booms connect to the hulls. Probably not much we can do with the engines and still have them fit under the hull.

The stealthy SC4 Jindos can be refaceted along with a few strakes. I'm hoping to use a different style on the SC3 Jindos, which should allow a lot more flexibility on X-tech details (probably do both designs both at the same time since I'm behind).

By Aaron Staley (Awwwdrat) on Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 04:24 pm: Edit

I can see a strake or two on Thols. And Jindos. But not ISC. Personally a sleaker solution would be nice for them I think.

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 07:01 pm: Edit

For Tholians I can see some kid of reinforcement on the welds holding the spliced hulls together.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 08:14 pm: Edit

The line art are top view, as noted the "Strakes" could be half or twice as high (if large enough to print), which may give a little to play with in the design. It has also been noted the "strakes" are all straight fore and aft.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 12:09 am: Edit

OK so I have been looking for Line Art that shows these things and I can’t find it anywhere. They are also not evident when looking at Federation commander ship diagrams.

Thinking about my earlier statement where I thought they were unnecessary on the dish AND on the secondary hull.
I think they may be difficult to avoid on the saucer in that if you design a DDX or NCX or a TGX or DWX or FFX each saucer would have to show them.

So in thinking that through my question needs to be rephrased as why do they need to be on the secondary hull? Are they of limited range / value?

Will this mean they will need to be on every Gorn Bubble? DNX vs CCX vs DDX?
Both sides of the catamaran Lyran (all 3 on the tri-miran) or any double Orion ship (DBR)?

These are real questions I am not trying to be obtuse.

By Aaron Staley (Awwwdrat) on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 02:49 pm: Edit

Let me put it this way and then i will leave it aline. I came back because this issue is (to me) really effing stupid. There are PLENTY of alternatives to this. This is a lazy way to present x-ships. If you use strakes, i promise you that you will ultimately regret it. If i do actually purchase x ships with strakes i will carefully file them down. They are not necessary. There are many other ways to distinguish x-ships from others but can we have that discussion or not?

By Aaron Staley (Awwwdrat) on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 03:08 pm: Edit

Im seeing lots of community saying yeah or nay. What do the company heads actually say? Do you all have the ability to redesign x-ships? You let Will change the engines, why do we need strakes? We dont. Sleeker hulls. Sleeker saucers. I believe shapeways can make thinner saucers ( or else how did you do Fed A20s?) Not saying he is lying, saying he might be mistaken. I firmly believe that if they were given a file exactly copying the old FASA Enterprise class cruiser they could do it.
Here is my opinion. Strakes are a departure from a quality product. The redesigned engines on the FED CX are a move in the RIGHT direction.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 03:17 pm: Edit

Strakes are were used to address naval engineering issues or aeronautical issues with planes. Motor boats one or more strakes to get up on plan-moving from a displacement mode to a planning mode.

SVC has already posted some reasons for strakes and that they are here to stay.

I think the area for come then is limited to the appearance of the strakes. No offense intended to Aaron or others who have posted.

Foe the CX sauser a teardrop shape with the thinnest part pointing aft would look better.

Strakes could be different shaped depending on location and empire.

By Aaron Staley (Awwwdrat) on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 03:30 pm: Edit

Joe C. I disagree. Strakes are NOT here to stay. With respect to ADB, if they really said that then they got a serious screw loose. I have a serious history of being VERY outspoken. It's not personal.
Now. To me, The strakes look really cheasy. They DONT look Trek. They look cheap. Its a perfect example of the "copy-paste; cookie cutter" history ADB has. I encourage them to break away from this. The engines on this Fed CX are WONDERFUL! NO STRAKES NEEDED. I could see strakes for Kzintis, but thats it.

By Aaron Staley (Awwwdrat) on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 03:43 pm: Edit

I once argued insatiably for the Master Rule Book. SVC didnt believe it would be profitable. I also pushed for G2 and G3. YOU FOLKS MAY NOT HAVE EVER GOTTEN THOSE PRODUCTS IF I DIDNT PUSH BACK THEN! And the master starship books, I had a small hand in suggesting they do them (I think i originally suggested they included the SSDs). Anyway. I dont get credit for these things. But i know what i know. X2 needs to be done. It is the REAL future of SFB. What. When X2 comes out, you are going to have twice the number of strakes? Break away from this. New and sleaker designs. You will make money doing this. Thats the point, right?

By Mike Dowd (Mike_Dowd) on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 04:24 pm: Edit

Mister Staley:

Have you had a chance to step back and re-read your last few posts? As in *actually* listened to yourself and the tone that you are projecting?

While I agree with you that the strakes are a poor idea, it has been stated in no unambiguous terms that they are here to stay. The game designers have spoken.

Are you required to go out and purchase them? No.

As it is, the tone I get from your posts is "The game designers are stupid, I am the only one who knows what to do, if it wasn't for me, this game would be crap, etc.". You come across like a whining entitled brat who is trying to browbeat ADB into doing what YOU want.

Please check the attitude. I doubt that you are doing your cause any favours here.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 04:26 pm: Edit

Aaron Staley:
The fighters are done with one of the print materials that can handle the design, the X ships need to be able to print in all the print materials offered by ADB Shapeways miniatures.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 04:41 pm: Edit

If it is decided that the X ships will be done in higher end material like the fighters, for design and printability reasons, than I would still purchase them.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 04:53 pm: Edit

The designer isn't responding because he has been out sick for the last week and today is a snow day since the streets were a skating rink.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 05:02 pm: Edit

Look, the reason for the strakes is simple. For the X-ship miniatures to be viable, they have to be visually distinct from a distance. You have to be able to look at them on a table from half-way across the room and instantly understand they are different. That is the real problem the strakes are designed to fix. Any in-game engineering techno-babble used to explain them is just window dressing. That is the real reason they are needed.

To anyone saying that prior line art (including virtually, if not literally, all Federation line art, but not the most recent stuff for other empires) doesn't have them, that is correct. The reason is because different engines are enough to get across they are different in page art or product covers. For something small like a miniature that have to be able to be identified past arm's length, the differences need to be more pronounced. Short of a completely different shape to the ship, strakes are a fairly straight-forward means to accomplish that end.

Why is this important? Because without noticeable, visual differences, very few people are going to buy both a CA and a CX. Everyone contributing to this discussion counts as the "very few people". This discussion group is NOT the target audience; the people not on this board are the target audience. Without the noticeable difference, there isn't enough reason to buy both.

This stuff all costs money and time, and without that type of visual difference, there probably isn't a reason to even make the model. Having the only difference between the CA and CX being the phaser bumps and engines isn't enough. So, yes, I am pretty sure this has already been decided.

That all said, I still don't like them.

By Aaron Staley (Awwwdrat) on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 06:20 pm: Edit

Mr Dowd. Listen to me carefully. If it wasnt for my tone 12 years ago, you wouldnt be able to purchase a master rule book today, and probably not even master ship books. Pay less attention to tone and more attention to content.they (strakes) are not here to stay, Not if those who are willing to object will stand up and not be whining little brats who have never fought for anything in their lives. (Like yourself)
Im willing to bet most are against it; but most arent willing to speak up. I wonder why? People like you maybe?
Sometimes its good to have someone put a check on your judgement. And by the way Mr. Dowd, its been 12 years to this day that I have posted on this board. I've held my tongue through all the silliness ADB has done since then. But I happen to like very much what they are doing on shapeways. But this strake idea has provoked me to get involved again.
I would love to meet you and let you explain to me in person, man to man, how im whining (veteran of quite a few combats so be polite when you do, im a man of peace now, but i can still be pushed). Yes. What you posted were fighting words.
Anyway, truly like everyone else who arent company, I am nobody; maybe even less. But i know what I want.
Jean: Understood.
Mike West: Its been too long brother. But i thank you for speaking up. I agree with you. What i mean is i dont like them. And when you see the YouTube video i am doing on the "Big MAC", you and a few others will understand. You CAN tell the engines and details from a table away. I just wish I could get a real historical list of the escorts and fighter squadrons.
Strakes are not needed.
Mr. Power, I also thank you for speaking up. I wont buy anything other than the smooth or smoothest fine detail plastic. Why? Everything else is grainy and doesnt paint up well.
Now, if you want compromise than lets do this. A version with strakes. And a version without. Everyone will be happy. And then we can get on with the good stuff and hopefully i will never feel the need to post here again.
In the meantime, im almost finished painting up the big mac, complete with all its fighters escorts shuttles drones (unfortunately not yours) t-bombs, stands etc.etc, etc.
The MSBs and the shapeways stuff brought me back . X-ships are a fav of mine. Please do not include strakes. Thank you.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 08:10 pm: Edit

The reason there are no strakes on Fed ships is I didn't think f them when those were done, when players pointed out the need for visual distinctions I invented strakes. Sometime I will go add them to Fed ships. Sleek engines are not enough. That is a baseline fact.

I have said before they are here to stay. I haven't commented much because I am letting the conversation run. You guys do best given some rope to run with. I have previously asked you to help make them to work.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 08:29 pm: Edit

Gentlemen, cool it on the personal remarks, please.

Jean
WebMom

By Aaron Staley (Awwwdrat) on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 08:32 pm: Edit

SVC: Ok. But there are other ways to make a distinction in my opinion. If you want strakes i could see them on kzintis. But honestly i cant even consider them on others; they are down right ugly and horrible looking.
Please reconsider.
You have the imagination and this is your company; your call.
I would really not enjoy getting a brand new miniature and having to snip off and carefully file down strakes to get it to look right before painting.
If you want ideas i will figure some out. But im sayin strakes are not the answer (those engines on the CX ought to be good enough)

By Aaron Staley (Awwwdrat) on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 08:53 pm: Edit

Tell ya what. Do a version with strakes and do a version without. After a few months whatever doesnt sell best, cut it from the line. At least those who like strakes will have the opportunity to get a few.
Webmom: ive said my piece. I was very thorough with no further need to elaborate my meaning. Ive no need to respond further. And i honestly have no intention to respond (on anything) once this topic is over.
Shapeways (IMO) is the only thing yall have done right in 10 years (which is embarrasing). I finally broke down and bought some and im making an excellent looking fed cva/scs group.
Now you want to ruin X-ships? I know module X back in the 80s was a shocking embarrassment to you but did it really hurt you so bad that yall got to keep us in the general war era? Cmon. Youre a designe bureau. There are other ways to make distinctions for advanced warships.
Im warning you. Strakes will be a bad mistake.