If you do not like the Strakes, you can always kit bash the miniature.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, February 14, 2020 - 11:45 pm: Edit

I never give weight to arguments based on 'mysterious people' who will not post on the forums. Making such arguments generally causes me to disregard the poster making such claims.

If they do exist, they should post here if they feel strongly. If they are actually banned from years ago (I know of a couple), well, they can discuss that with the powers that be I imagine.

By Aaron Staley (Awwwdrat) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 06:20 am: Edit

Quite honestly have no clue why these folks dont simply say here "I dont like the strakes". Their business.
And while recently no one may have been banned or had their posts deleted simply for disagreeing, i remember my last experiences (about a decade ago or more) where i was banned and singled out for deletion of posts.
I noticed the shapeways project a little over a year ago. Looking through everything i said to myself "great! Theyre finally doing something neat". Im a big pewter fan, but i can get past that as long as the detail stays exceptional. Anything bigger than 3788 (to me) is a model and no longer a miniature. I like the 3788, i find value in omni and 7000 elite scales, cant understand why heavy shuttles are so dang huge, and have absolutely no desire for 285s. But aparently, every Fed mini has like four versions; making ordering the right product difficult. There would be no more difference to adding versions without strakes (and it would make me shut the Hell up and press the purchase button).
But ADB has expressed there's "no way in Hell" theyre doing that.
Im not in the habit of divulging names of people who email me privately, would you?
Anyway, if they want to grow a pair, they can make a post, but im not a weasel, and i wont betray their trust.
Like i said, just print and get it over with. Another disappointment where as before there was optimism. Thank you for not banning me for 30 days or deleting my posts like you did before.

By MarkSHoyle (Bolo) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 07:56 am: Edit

I imagine most Miniatures have something someone doesn't prefer...
My view is, just be glad someone making an effort to update/upgrade miniatures to the technology we have to produce them today....

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica_Orsini) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 08:48 am: Edit

Well that escalated quickly.....

*sigh*

I don't like the strakes. I personally feel that they're an unnecessary mandate that detracts from Will's excellent design, and that the design is distinctive enough in its own right to scream "X-ship!" from across the table. I was up-front about that from the get-go.

But that's not a call I make, or Will makes, or any of us who do not work at ADB make. ADB made the decision that X-ships require a unified defining feature and that strakes will be that feature. There's been discussion (lots of it) on that point, that position has been maintained, and that's that. The ship (and all other X-ships) will have strakes. We can snip them off of our own minis if we want, but that's how they'll come from the factory, and attacking people over it isn't helpful at all.

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 10:53 am: Edit

Like Jessica said if you dont like them change them, I dont care for them myself, so if I do purchase one it will change it. Resin is much easier to modify that pewter or lead.. For me if it is a defining feature, I snip it off, and during the painting I make it look like a design feature in the hull, no big deal.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 11:34 am: Edit

Forums like this have always struggled with context and emotion. People come off as rude when they are trying to express passion.

Knowing this is a difficult medium And knowing that the days are gone where you could just call someone stupid and change their mind (did that ever work?). It’s a better approach to just use facts when available to make a point.

19 of the 29 people who commented about the strakes did not like them. 4 gave no opinion. 5 of them liked them. 1 was the sculptor.

Since the message was ‘here to stay’ and changes have been made, 6 people who said they didn’t like them now have come around to say they are workable at the reduced height. Yes there is still a larger number of our small sample size who prefer none.

IMO the concern people had expressed was that if the strakes are the ID factor for this tech, it would make the all x-ships look like they had the pox rather be some beautiful next level tech.

SVC has let us work it out (until Monday).
As for responses to our ideas he has said that maybe the number could be less, he wasn’t sure if the strake could slope into the curved hull, and they should not be flush or on the engines.

The line art shows the top view strakes as more centerlined behind the bridge meaning they might be shorter than what we have now.

Maybe the lower saucer strakes can go completely away to reduce the number?
Some people like the 2nd Hull strakes some do not, it was almost 50/50 of those who commented.

I agree that strakes might look strange on the 7000 series.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Aaron, perhaps you misremembered what happened regarding the deletion of your account. From February 18, 2012:

Aaron Staley's account has been deleted at his own request. This is a non-punative deletion. He remains in good standing and may return at any time so long as he agrees to follow the Board Posting Rules as documented to the left. (http://www.starfleetgames.com/discus/board-rules.html)

By Aaron Staley (Awwwdrat) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Please take into account, removing 8 "strakes" (excess plastic that has absolutely no purpose whatsoever) will not be a simple task that just takes 5 minutes. For me, it will likely be closer to 20-60 minutes, as they will need to be carefully filed flat to look like panels.
This is like intentionally added flash like what we use to get coming from molds.
I refuse to buy the resin or the cheap plastic. Only the smooth plastic is acceptable for me; so screwing up is not an option. This is why strakes should either not be done, or be an alternative to a miniature without strakes.

By Aaron Staley (Awwwdrat) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 01:55 pm: Edit

Yes Jean, after yall banned me twice for thirty days each time as well as singled me out for post deletion for no good reason whatsoever.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 03:11 pm: Edit

Actually, Lawrence, I have never offered an opinion of like or dislike about the strakes here on the bbs. My job is to execute ADB's direction, when one is given.

I will explain my decisions and process in implementing the ships. I will defend my workmanship and craft.

Defending the direction is not my role, but if someone calls the product a "stupid thing" as a blanket term, I do take offense and consider it the comment of an inconsiderate person, internet lack of context not not.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 04:44 pm: Edit

We have never deleted a post "for no good reason." Maybe you didn't like the reason (or the rules) but that is no on us.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 05:24 pm: Edit

It's just me, but perhaps after 8 years one could just let it be water under the bridge. YMMV.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 05:35 pm: Edit

@Will: yep that was noted.

By Aaron Staley (Awwwdrat) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 06:03 pm: Edit

Ok SVC, here we go again. How about we stick to the actual topic? Have you noticed that everyone seems to be focusing on everything but? Theres a reason for that.
A. Ive been focussing on the Federation and using the fed mssb for the past 2 or so years. (Been trying to put together a Big Mac Group). Didnt see any reference to strakes anywhere. Since the first time i noticed ADB minis on shapeways i was intrigued and decided that this, unlike all the other silly ventures, was really cool and right up my alley, (i havent even read this board since i left, the first time i posted in this topic was the first time i even read this board since i left). Anyway, i wanted to see what was next. I noticed the CX topic started to read and behold, strakes. Ew. That aint right. Everything seemed wonderful. And now, this?
B. Now come to find out, theyre for no good reason whatsoever. People trying to come up with technobabble gibberish to justify them but strakes are there just to set x-ships apart from non-x ships.
C. People pointed out (im people too) that the engines looked good enough. Makes no difference, youre doing it to do it. The real reason why seems to be kept hidden.
D. Never even looked at x-ships in the other mssbs and just recently when i did they just looked like flat panels. Never noticed. Saying its been decided for years doesnt sound very, lets say, honest.
E. At 6 feet away (which i didnt know about until today) you will be able to tell federation engines on a cx from that of a ca. Easy. I will prove it on YouTube if you like.
F. I was just told (aparently by someone who seems to be afraid of you) that someone said something about "zing". Strakes are "zing"? Theyre not even zip. Theyre more like "twang".
G. Unless you make them completely flat panels, for me, its going to cost A LOT of extra time chopping them off, and if i screw up just 1, thats even more time. I dont buy the 10 buck stuff, i get the 22+ buck fine detail smooth plastics.
H. Yes, like every other human being in this world, you do things for no good reason; and strakes are certainly the proof. Just produce a fed one without the strakes as a marketing test bed. What can it hurt? Your feelings? I think youll get a surprise. And it will be pretty nice.
H. Irregardless of the decision, i dont intend to return to the board. But i really, really, really, really, REALLY like X-ships. A lot. A whole lot. And adding flash intentionally to a mini seems disgusting. So i chimed in.
G. Lets reverse rolls for a second. Lets say there was a high demand for strakes, but AMS runs the company (Jesus forbid), and i said if you really want strakes, kitbash your own. SVC tells me Im doing something stupid, but i dont listen to him and dont even spend the time to research it. Ive got other things going on.
This has happened before in a different way.
H. I would pose the question; lets say we add strakes to early years ships; that way we can tell what they are from 6 feet way? Why dont you delay x ships and do that first and see what happens. I bet you will hear from some folks then. Want to put 20 bucks on it?

I would really appreciate it if you did not put strakes on x ships. Or at the very least make a version without them.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 06:17 pm: Edit

I do not recommend speaking for others in your posts and suggest civility.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 06:20 pm: Edit

Like I suspect most of you have, I quit reading what Aaron posts. Life is too short. Nothing will ever make Arron happy but my death, and I'm not going anytime soon.

By Aaron Staley (Awwwdrat) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 06:39 pm: Edit

Well, certainly strakes dont make me happy. Everything else mentioned in the past 2 posts appear to be be seriously outside the topic.

By Mark Hutton (Trynda1701) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 06:42 pm: Edit

Actually, Aaron makes a good point about all the various versions of current minis. Why not have a version with strakes, and one without. Isn't that the same as Classic Feds vs Gridded Feds, or Classic Klingons vs Aztec panel Klingons?

Best of both worlds, surely?

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 10:16 pm: Edit

Why I don't want to do two versions of the x-ships: We are talking about at least two scales, Federation and Federation Classic, and with or without strakes. That means eight versions. There will be four versions of the description.

If everything goes perfectly on Shapeways and each ship takes only 15 minutes (hah!), that is two hours to put up the ships as opposed to the hour I now spend. I don't see higher sales for the varying ships.

The 3788/3125 split is at least close to even for sales. The Federation/Fed Classic is heavily weighted to the Federation side of things. Adding in no strakes/strakes further marginalizes the sales in each category.

And it won't end there. The lines (Tholian, Kzinti, Orion, ISC, etc) where there is only one version will suddenly need two. The lines where there is a division (Gorns, Lyrans, Klingons) will now also have eight items.

Most people would rather have a variety of ships, not a variety of varieties. Those folks who find it confusing now will find it more confusing with a plethora of styles of X-ships.

EDIT: This is germane to the topic as it explains why we aren't doing strakes/no strakes versions. By the time we pay the sculptor and Paramount and Shapeways, we need to turn a profit. Putting up one two ships that sell and six ships that don't means I lose an hour and a half putting up the ships that don't sell. Since Shapeways increased the prices for the Smooth Fine Detail Plastic, those of you who buy those ships buy fewer of them. We understand that -- you are on a budget and your $100 that used to buy six ships now buys four. But since our profit is on a per ship basis, not a percentage basis, that means when you buy fewer ships with your $100, we take home less. We MUST be selective about patterns we set now and adding yet another variant is probably not in our best interest.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 10:33 pm: Edit

Folks, writing in my role as WebMom, I am asking all of us to stick to the topic of the Federation X-ships. Whatever happened in the past about whatever or to whomever is not germane to the discussion.

I would suggest that calling ideas "stupid" is not the way to have one's counterpoint accepted.

Jean
WebMom

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 10:39 pm: Edit

Not going there. We have WAAAYYY too many "double fleets" and I do not want any more.

By AW Cookson (Awcookson) on Sunday, February 16, 2020 - 12:16 am: Edit

I have spoke passionately about the 'strakes', shared my opinions (mostly civilly if not a bit too bluntly), and seen what SVC would like and what Will says can be done.
Many have made the point that the miniature can be home modified. Work has been done to try to mitigate the objections many have.

In the end analysis I believe that the best that can be done to meet each POV on the figure has been done.

The medium of text messages looses much nuance and SFB has always invoked passion in different ways.
If I could suggest, we live in an age where civility has been challenged to different degrees and we all have out on POV. We don't have to fully agree on anything but we could strive to be the kind of person that I'd want sitting across the table from me when we play.

SVC, you've been accommodating with all the suggestions and Will has tried to show the ideas as they can be done. At least for myself, I think we've reached the design that can move forward, pending technical issues.

By Aaron Staley (Awwwdrat) on Sunday, February 16, 2020 - 05:10 am: Edit

So, assuming that your community is 60 pro, 40 con, you want to make the cons kitbash a miniature (as i said, 20 to 60 minutes each one depending on skill level of the kitbasher and the material ordered).
And you are worried about your time only? Its what it seems to boil down to.
And further you dont want to make any attempt to try both out as a trial run? I would suggest not doing the classic versions on the x-ships BTW because of additional production costs. Meanwhile, if the kitbasher makes a mistake and screwsup a 25 buck miniature, well, thats ok then?

By Mark Hutton (Trynda1701) on Sunday, February 16, 2020 - 06:20 am: Edit

Jean

I agree with Aaron that there shouldn't be a Fed Classic version of a CX with or without strakes, and would apply that to any Empire that has a split like Gorn or Lyran.

The more detailed minis suggest upgrades, and the X-Cruisers etc are a step up again.

Sorry for any confusion.