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	Archive through May 19, 2020	25		05/21 11:29am

Indeed, let’s do that.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 - 11:41 am: Edit

For the "Orion Empire" concept, there are a few "campaign conjectural" designs in SFB Module R9: the aforementioned Tug, as well as a heavy dreadnought, a light dreadnought, and a mauler variant of the Battle Raider. Plus, there might be other "campaign conjectural" designs which could be worked up at some point, if they don't exist somewhere already: such as a fast cruiser, a war destroyer transport, and/or a dedicated survey cruiser.

So, perhaps one could do an "Orion Empire" sprue:
DNH, DN, DNL, CF, BRM, and SR,

And then an "Orion Fleet Transport" sprue:
Tug (no pod), Tug (with pod), LTT (no pod), LTT (with pod), DWT (no pod), and DWT (with pod).


In terms of the OK6, might there be a potential software issue if the "Klingon" and "Orion" portions of this hull type needed to be converted from one file format to another? Or have those sort of hurdles been accounted for already?

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 - 12:56 pm: Edit

I am preparing the 3788/3125 OK6 right now. Software issues were indeed involved. I finally gave up on importing the CR and just reverse-engineered it.

Only Chris can speak to if the reverse would be true.

By Chris Nasipak (Ecs05norway) on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 - 01:18 pm: Edit

A large part of the issue comes from each of us using different sculpting software, that are not always entirely compatible in their output. There are some file formats we can use that make this easier, but it requires some communication and prep work.

In this particular case the Klingon model is much more complex compared to the CR - all those sweeping curves do not play well with my software - which is why Will is doing this one.

It's actually quite a bit easier for him to rebuild the CR, a geometrically simple model, than it is for me to get his D6 model imported into my program in a state I can work with it.

Just for an idea of how things can get, the Hydrans have fairly simple shapes -- and it still took me several hours of work each to get Gary's models to a point where I could build variants off of them after I was asked to take over the line.
(The Paladin was a /nightmare/. Those apparently-flat sides are anything but.)

(The most difficult model I've built from scratch for this project was the Hydran Pegasus. Again, complex interacting curved surfaces.)

As for variants like the DNH/DNL, Mauler, etc, /right now/ we're pretty much only doing base hulls. Anything further will depend on how Jeanne and the Steves decide the line is doing. (Quick hint: The more 7k you buy now, the more likely we are to get asked to make variants.)

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 11:29 am: Edit

Opinion: I think unique ships such as the OK6 should be stand-alone only and not on a sprue, unless it's a sprue of all unique ships. I'd hate to say "I want two or three BCH in my fleet" and end up with extra OK6 that I can't use.


Garth L. Getgen

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 12:08 pm: Edit

Or perhaps the OK6 could be put on a "short sprue" with a Free Traitor and a Prime Traitor?

There have been a few other "short sprues" in 1:7000 scale added to Shapeways as of late. Plus the "Traitors" might be useful in a Prime Directive context.

By Chris Nasipak (Ecs05norway) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 12:45 pm: Edit

Given that Will also sculpted the Free Trader, that might be a good idea, Gary.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 01:30 pm: Edit

At 1/7000, there would be no difference at all between a Free Traitor and a Prime Traitor. 1/7000 do not have weapon bumps and the cheat that was done with the 3788/3125, where the slightly longer (Mongoose-ish version) was deemed a Prime Trader, would also be next to impossible to discern.

A tree can have 2 of a (doesn't exist, yet) 1/7000 Free Trader model and folks can call it what they need to, but there isn't much more than that that is practical.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 02:59 pm: Edit

Give that the 3788 free trader is like 12mm long the 7000 one would be what a quarter inch? Do we really need that?

By Chris Nasipak (Ecs05norway) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 03:59 pm: Edit

In true 7k scale it would be about as big as a fighter mini, true. I hadn't looked at the size, just remembered that the SL2400 one was fairly big, about the same size as a frigate.

The Free Trader on the Shapeways store is Omni-scale, so not sure how mixing that with a 7k model would be received.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 04:29 pm: Edit

The Free Trader Omni-scale (and metal) minis are indeed about the same overall size as the Fed frigate.
---

If I recall correctly, SVC had asked Steve Zamboni to work up a 1/7000 collection of general freighters.

What size were those going to be?
(this is a question to establish some basic parameters)
----

The small general ships (Free Trader, APT, FedEx) have never been "to scale" with anything else. They are in their own scale (much as the bases each were). The small general ships are at least in the ballpark of being to-scale with each other.

For 1/7000, they would probably need to do this again. Not be in-scale with the pod-freighters (which are not to-scale with anything other than each other) and not to-scale with the warships (as they never have been).

For 1/7000 general small ships, the rule of cool is likely the best one to apply, and just have them sized so they are big enough to print well and have at least some detail, but don't outclass the frigates (or at least not by too much).

For 1/7000 pod-freighters, see the question above.

My OCD side would love to have the pod freighters actually finally be using the "real" pods, same as the tug minis. However, there are decades of experience out there with the freighter minis looking like "so", compared to the cruisers in the same product line and messing with that is probably not good marketing.

Probably best to size them so their relationship to the cruisers and other ships is the same as it is comparing their Omni-scale versions to the legacy 1/3788 scale cruisers. (i.e. whatever a metal small freighter looks like compared to a metal Starline2400 Fed CA or Zochi plastic CA should be proportionally represented comparing a "1/7000" pod freighter to a 1/7000 Fed CA).

By Chris Nasipak (Ecs05norway) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 05:11 pm: Edit

That gives me a thought, Will, how do the existing Omni-scale freighters compare to 7k scale? Would they be in something close to "true scale" next to 7k minis? If so, that resolves the issue of players wanting "true 7k scale" freighters -- they're already done.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 06:05 pm: Edit

I'll do a comparison tonight but, based on memory, they're too big.

By Chris Nasipak (Ecs05norway) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 07:00 pm: Edit

I think you're right, a pod on a Federation 3788-scale Tug is 52.5mm. That means a "true 7k scale" pod would be 23.6mm. And a Omni Small Freighter, which is pretty much pod plus a bit, is 38.9mm. Looks like they're closer to about 1/5000.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 01:04 am: Edit

Will, I don’t mind if you Or Steve Z want to Do freighters in true 3788. Let the buyers decide.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 08:31 am: Edit

If my math is right, a ship that's 52.5 mm long at 1:3788 would be 63.6 mm at 1:3125.


Garth L. Getgen

By Steven Zamboni (Szamboni) on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 01:09 pm: Edit

The 1/7000 freighters are done, the collection already went to Jean for the next batch. They are scaled on the 160m Civilian Cargo Pod (CCP) rather than the 200m FJ Federation Cargo Pod which should be more universal and helps keep the price down. The 1/7000 WYN collection is essentially the same 1/7000 freighters with extra greebles.

The existing base Omni freighters were set at ~1/5033 to match Will's metal versions which were equipped with Federation pods. These replaced the short-pod 1/3788 freighter models in the store in December 2017. (And the great wheel makes another revolution around the sun...)

Most of the "Omni" freighter auxiliaries in the store are secretly already 1/3788. A set of generic 1/3788 freighters can be uploaded anytime Jean takes her hand away from the booth power switch.