Technical note: It is not possible to scale-down the D7 to Snipe size. For the Feds and Klingons, the ships are already being modeled at the barest minimum that printing will allow.

To do "an even-smaller D7", will mean a new model, changing proportions again and losing more detail.

That could be done, but it won't be a "just scale it down" easy-kill and much testing would be required to ensure it would print.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, April 25, 2021 - 01:03 am: Edit

Will
How big is the current 7000 D7?
How big is the current 7000 snipe?

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Sunday, April 25, 2021 - 02:32 am: Edit

The Snipe was Matt Lawson and he would have to answer that.

The 1/7000 D7 is 1.377 inch long, on an integral 1/2-inch hexagonal base.

By Steven Zamboni (Szamboni) on Sunday, April 25, 2021 - 07:43 pm: Edit

I've made fleet markers and counter holders for large-hex F&E, but including a ship in a marker that small is going to extremely difficult.

Something that snaps over a 7000 base to hold a counter off to one side should be possible, like a variation of the 7000 ACTA adapters.

By Matthew Lawson (Mglawson) on Monday, April 26, 2021 - 11:19 am: Edit

I've actually messed around with this as my F&E Gaming group wanted stands with a ship on top and I came up with several ideas: one stand that would hold a fleet counter with the ability to stack ship counters on the backside; one that had the fleet counted built into the pedestal that the ship would sit upon.

I also started to make the large fleet counters, in 3d and ran them by SVC a year or two ago, but at that time there didn't seem to be interest. With the new Full Color High definition there is great possibility and I've already uploaded a sample, but price may be a deterrent. I'll send a few images to SVC again and see his thoughts.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Monday, April 26, 2021 - 01:37 pm: Edit

Steven/Matthew,

Thanks so much for sharing your experiences. Do either of you have any images/sketches/URLs of the markers/stands/counters you mention? I'd love to take a closer look.

--Mike

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Thursday, May 13, 2021 - 04:30 pm: Edit

RE: More F&E Fleet Markers

So, pursuing my ongoing interest in miniature model fleet markers, I bit the bullet and ordered the core collections of the Klingon and Federation 7000 series Shapeways models. Based upon looking at the web site and doing some estimates, going in I thought only the smallest models (frigates) would be small enough to effectively maneuver around the F&E board.

Thankfully was I wrong (photos linked).

7000_scale_01
7000_scale_02

The 7000 Shapeways model hex bases are just over 0.25” on each face, and around 0.6” across at the widest point on the base.

The F&E hexagons on my copy of the standard F&E color map are around 0.8” across at the widest point, with each hex face being just under 0.5”. I’m sure someone can chime in with the precise dimensions.

Standard F&E counters (ship and fleet marker) appear to be just under 0.5” on each square edge.

So the 7000 hexagonal bases easily fit in the F&E hexes with room to spare, where I initially thought the hex bases would fill the F&E hexes right to the edge.

Both the F5 and the F5W fit on the F&E map quite nicely. One could even use the D5 or maybe even the D7 as a fleet marker, although they do both hang over into the next hex somewhat. D5 is probably the biggest I would use. And I like the D5 shape much better than the F5, since the D5 shape is closer to the D7. And the D7 is the iconic Klingon ship from STTOS.

Now the surprisingly good news that the 7000 series models are small is also a problem. There just isn’t anywhere to easily attach existing fleet markers to the ships. You can’t rest the counter against the central support or slot or notch the base since there isn’t enough clearance between the ship itself and the base. The Klingons are actually better in this area. Some of the Fed models, such as the 7000 CA has the main lower part of the ship nearly touching the base. You couldn’t fit a fleet marker in there sideways, much less standing up.

A few ideas come to mind (suggestions welcome):

1. Make something like a small sticker and attach it to the base. Not much room there. Perhaps abbreviating the fleet marker text or just and using numbers? So the F5 would have a #1 on the base somehow and that maps into the Klingon Tholian Border Squadron, or something.

2. Modify and extend the models up so the central support shaft is longer and there is enough space to place a counter between the bottom of the ship and the base. This might make some of the models tippy? As mentioned before, the Klingons would not need too much more clearance, but some of the Fed models would need quite a bit.

3. Find or make a small hexagonal pedestal that a ship model could sit on, with room to glue a fleet marker or label on the side. These could potentially be made to fill the entire F&E hex, and allow stacking of other counters under the model but on top of the pedestal? If no identifying information were on the pedestals, they would be generic and could be used to support ships of any empire. One could also either set the ships on the pedestals, or glue them for a more permanent effect. Or perhaps we would just use the pedestals with the Klingons, so we could tower above the lesser empires? Now there’s an intriguing possibility! Selling them in a sprue of 4 or 8 might be convenient?

And with respect to the ship models themselves:

1. It would be much more economical to have the fleet markers/ships one might want in a larger sprue grouping. So, a sprue of 8xD5s, for example would provide markers for all Klingon fleets. As things exist now, if I wanted 8xD5s I would need to buy 8x core collections which would be very expensive, and only cover the Klingons. I’d also have a lot of Klingon ships that I might not use.

2. It might also be convenient to make available individual ships, or perhaps small groups of 2-4?. So if I wanted to use some F5s and some D5s as my fleet markers I could buy 1-2 of these groupings. For me personally, I’d pick one ship and that would be my fleet marker for the entire empire. Others may feel differently.

3. Perhaps the groupings of these hypothetical multi-ship sprues could be considered in the context of other uses of the 7000 models? I’m not sure SFB players would get much mileage out of 8xF5s in a sprue, as in my experience that’s not a common fleet.

4. It would be nice if these ships were available in other colored substances. For example, the Hydrans could be green and the Lyrans yellow. I’m not sure if the color of the substance is just arbitrarily cosmetic, or if the different colored materials have physical properties which lend themselves to specific types of models. I like the PA12 grey for the Klingons. I’m not a fan of the white Fed ships, and would have purchased in blue if it was available. If I wanted to use my Fed ships as fleet markets, I’d probably paint them in Conrail blue.

Of course, I’m not sure if any of the above ideas are logistically or economically practical, but I thought I’d introduce them for discussion. Thanks.

--Mike

By Jean Sexton Beddow (Jsexton) on Thursday, May 13, 2021 - 05:00 pm: Edit

Color for the 7000 ships.

When a material is dyed, it is usually tumbled first. That means that items on the sprue would break off and the mini would fail in production. That is why you will see our sprued ships in Fine Detail Plastic, White Natural Plastic if it passes in that material, and Grey Multi-Jet Fusion Plastic if it passes in the material and is cost effective.

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Thursday, May 13, 2021 - 05:15 pm: Edit

Mike,

Litko makes custom acrylic bases which you can order to the size you need. I have several that are the same width as the 1/7000 hexes. Mine are 3mm in height so I can out labels on the sides.

Use their custom base maker program.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Friday, May 14, 2021 - 10:51 am: Edit

Jean,

Thanks for that information. Now it makes sense why different 7000s are offered in different materials.

Are these limitations exclusive to sprued ships? If there was a particularly delicate single ship model, might it also have similar limitations on materials and color?

--Mike

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Friday, May 14, 2021 - 10:56 am: Edit

Nick,

Awesome tip, thanks! I'm scoping out some bases on their web site right now.

--Mike

By Jean Sexton Beddow (Jsexton) on Friday, May 14, 2021 - 03:16 pm: Edit

Mike, there are a few ships that don't pass in anything other than Fine Detail Plastic. The Souldra are the main empire for that. Some ships are too big to fit in the bounding box for Smoothest Fine Detail Plastic.

For single ships, we try very hard to provide at least two choices for materials.

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica_Orsini) on Thursday, May 20, 2021 - 02:46 pm: Edit

Is there any chance that a 1:7000-scale ISC sprue including the Tug may be in the offing soon(ish)? The tug-happy ISC player in our campaign is deeply hopeful....

While were at it: a Fed 1:7000 sprue with a classic Texas-class light cruiser (or two) would be splendid; maybe it could be a "mothball reserve" sprue with a couple Burkes and Saladins.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Thursday, May 20, 2021 - 03:18 pm: Edit

The 1/7000 Fed oCL has been finished for a while. The issue is completing 5 other ships that are appropriate to go with it, while other priorities eat up the available time. (1/7000 ships are always in groups of 6, unless special circumstances apply)

By Jack Bohn (Jackbohn) on Friday, May 21, 2021 - 07:46 am: Edit

Steve Stewart has suggested it as a Fleet Builder set; a pair of oCLs and DDs, and one each of the more rare oCA and corvette.

For bringing ships into this scale, a POL might fit the theme of such a group... At the risk of making more design work, an NCC-13xx cruiser as on the cover of CL #24? It is just a retro look, as they have been updated to the standard CA, but it could be used for the least refit cruiser in your fleet.

By Steve Stewart (Stevestewart) on Friday, May 21, 2021 - 07:47 am: Edit

I suggested to SVC a little while ago (on the FC Minis forum) that a sprue of 1xoCA, 2xoCL, 2xDD and 1xVT would make a good legacy Federation sprue; I understand this had some issues with use of the FJ ships, so he was going to look at how well that would work for ADB. I'm sure it's on his extensive list of "things to get round to" (for which we thank you Mr Cole!)

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, May 21, 2021 - 02:20 pm: Edit

I think it something along those lines would be fine. I wonder if I need to invent an oDD that is the same general shape was the oCL but has DD weapons?

By Patrick H. Dillman (Patrick) on Friday, May 21, 2021 - 04:43 pm: Edit

To me, an old style DD makes sense, especially for use during the early years.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, May 21, 2021 - 05:15 pm: Edit

SSD done and put on Petrick's desk. I have to leave for the day to run errands.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Friday, May 21, 2021 - 09:23 pm: Edit

I thought there was a reference in an older set of fluff text for the Fed Pol (perhaps in Commander's Edition) that the Pol was based on the hull of the destroyer that was the contemporary of the oCL (when the oCL was the Terran CA).

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, May 21, 2021 - 10:33 pm: Edit

According to the data in Module Y1 and in the Federation Master Starship Book, the Terran warp-refitted destroyer (YR2.3) has a similar external appearance to the "modern" Federation police cutter (and Federal Republic frigate), but has a very different configuration internally.

Unlike the case with the Terran-hull CL, which was the same base hull that could be given successive iterations of tactical warp drive upgrades, the Terran WDDs had been retired and/or scrapped by the time the first POLs were being drawn up.

(I once proposed a "YPOL" that could illustrate the "missing link" between the WDD and POL.)

According to Module Y2, the warp-refitted Terran heavy cruiser (YR2.24) is based on the Metal Express Epping CA, as noted in this PDF.

-----

The recently-added 1:7000 scale Paravian sprue can be used both for the "lost empire" Paravians in Module C6 as well as for their playtest "Omega's lost futures" counterparts in Captain's Log #54.

In a similar vein, I had been wondering if an "all-Terran" sprue - say, of 1 OCA, 2 CLs, and 3 POLs - could itself serve "double-duty": both for the United Federation of Planets and for the Federal Republic of Aurora.

While I'd argue that the Federal Republic armored cruiser is distinct enough from the Federation old heavy cruiser to make its own miniature design worth considering at some distant point in time, the Fed OCA is "close enough" to work as a functional stand-in for the FRA CLA. Plus, the Federation CL and POL work pretty much as-is for the FRA CL and FF respectively.

In the long run, I would welcome a more thorough look at the Federal Republic of Aurora, in terms of how it could be potentially brought up to the same level as other Omega Octant empires currently featured on the Shapeways storefront. But while that might well be a more distant dream, at least an "all-Terran" sprue could be a useful starting point.

By Chris Ross (Chrisross) on Friday, May 21, 2021 - 11:52 pm: Edit

It may not be the Earth DD but an alternative to the earliest lollypop DDs. Or an even later design with a similar history to the OCA.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, May 22, 2021 - 08:15 am: Edit

There is also the Federation police frigate, as well as the improved police cutter.

Elsewhere on the BBS, I was suggesting that the Federation Police might one day develop an "improved" version of the police frigate, with three of the same 6-box engines used on the improved police cutter.

Perhaps one or more of those options could help add variety to a would-be "all-Terran" sprue?

(That said, the FRA has no equivalent to the police frigate currently in print. But it's not entirely implausible for them to eventually field a ship along those lines.)

By Zac Belado (Pixelgeek) on Monday, May 31, 2021 - 04:19 pm: Edit

Are there any plans to add a Romulan carrier or two to the 3125 range?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, May 31, 2021 - 05:56 pm: Edit

Are there any carriers in 3788?