With the coming F&E Warbook (FEW), I'd like to propose we update scenario (602.0) -- The Tempest for the FEW product like I did with the (603.0) The Hurricane.

My plan is to propose to ADB, a fully updated sector scenario using the current OOB (with ADB approved corrections) as a baseline and proportionally distribute expansion module (AO,CO,FO,PO) units accordingly (using my scenario balance sheets from the development of WoF and the Gale Force & 4PW updates).

If any of you are aware of any problems with the current scenario, please feel free to post a line item here so we can recommend the best update possible.

I'm also looking to include those of you who would like to assist in this project. Our intent would be to include only missing historical units while keeping the scenario's current published balance.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 02:09 am: Edit

Some recommended source documents for those of you interested in helping include:

The History of the General War (posted elsewhere on this BBS)
Class Histories listed in ALL CLs
SFB R-sections

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 03:59 pm: Edit

Just got an e-mail from Steve -- he cleared me to coordinate this update and wants it for the Warbook. I'd like to put together a small tiger team to look at making sure we include all the proper HISTORICAL units and timelines (a la what I did for Hurricane) and maintain balance. I'd like to try to get something to ADB by the end of this month.

Who would like to assist?

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 04:03 pm: Edit

Chuck, I can help.

Mike

By James Lowry (Rindis) on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 05:10 pm: Edit

I'm willing.

Send an email to the address in my profile to remind me when I'm at home, instead of at work.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 06:22 pm: Edit

Chuck,

I can help.

Ryan

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 06:23 pm: Edit

Meow

That's me volunteering.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 06:25 pm: Edit

Chuck, talked to Todd and we may be able to help also. I will know in a few days.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 06:28 pm: Edit

I'm in.

By John Robinson (John_R) on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 09:17 pm: Edit

Chuck - I've got 6 weeks stuck in a hotel room in the evenings. I think I can help out.

By Stewart W Frazier (Frazikar) on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 11:27 pm: Edit

Chuck, you're talking about updating the OBs given in (602.5), right?

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 02:07 am: Edit

Okay -- good -- I think we have enough on the team for now:

Mike Curtis
James Lowry
Ryan Opel
Scott Tenhoff
Lawrence Bergen
Todd Lovas
Chris Fant
John Robinson

SF: not only an update of the OOB but to split the scenario into sector format.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 03:03 am: Edit

Can you send or is it posted the Hurricane file. I'd assume that we'd need to account for colonies, Minor SYs, etc that show up in hurricane and it would be easier to work backwards for some of that stuff.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 04:10 am: Edit

Ryan:

Check your e-mail...

++++++++++++++

Team:

Okay, lets get started:

First, you all need to understand that that this is a historical update at the close of Turn-6, Y171S – not an "ideal build" update. Just because you or your group "always" builds 17 CVSs may very well not hold true in this update.

Its also a historical correction. This scenario was originally written in 1986 when many SFU "historical facts" were not yet written. If we encounter contradictions in the original general 1986 OOB and later published specific "facts" – we will go with the later specific facts. (A good example of this is the GW at start Klingon OOB listed 3 CVTs – they are missing in Hurricane but magically reappear in Gale Force – so I added them back to Hurricane because the CL "Class Histories" articles forced the addition of several Alliance carriers into the OOB.)

Also remember that the OOBs and build schedules may have change since 1986. We will also need to reference material from the follow-on historical scenarios like Hurricane and Gale Force – if there are 17 D6Qs in Gale Force and the only way the Klingons could have done was to have started by build one in Y170S then we need to show it on the update.

I recommend you go read how I worked the development for the update of the Hurricane in the F&E Scenario Proposals section to understand some of the things we will be doing for this update.

So the next step is get a baseline on the existing F&E2K OOB add any "missing" units and use that data to balance any additions from the modules. I need someone to post the (602.4) OOB here online using this EXACT table format (I will paste it into my balance worksheet); example:

RACE	Unit Hulls #	Unit	EP Value	Adj AF
In Kzinti Space
Kzinti	2	DN	16.0	12
Kzinti	7	CV	24.0	16
Kzinti	4	CVL	18.0	12
In Klingon Space
Kzinti	4	CVE	13.0	9
Kzinti	11	MEC	6.0	6
Kzinti	15	EFF	3.5	2
Kzinti	3	CC	9.0	9
Kzinti	10	BC	8.0	8

Please keep the list segregated by race and area of deployment. The adjusted AF is the printed uncrippled AF + combat fighters factors + MaxEW + G factors

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 11:47 am: Edit

BTW if someone just wants to do just one of the four races (H,L,K,Z), that's fine -- we can divide this up to spread the load.

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 12:08 pm: Edit

I will do the Klingons and have them up by the evening of 5 APR 06.

By James Lowry (Rindis) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 01:15 pm: Edit

I'll volunteer to do the Lyrans.

Two scenarios to look at as points of reference: Koval's Lightning (Turn 6, focused on the Klingon invasion of the Federation in CO - presumably it includes some later units) and The Hydran Expedition (Turn 3, obvious subject, in CO - presumably has some later units).

No idea if they're really any use at this point, they just showed up in my glance over the timeline.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 02:28 pm: Edit

I'll take the Hydrans. Should post tommorrow. How do you do tables?

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 03:57 pm: Edit

Chuck, shouldn't your production schedules for each Sector include the additional shipyards devoted to them?

Example
Lyrans Spring Production:
Sector A: CA, CW, DW, FF
Sector B: DN, 2CW, DW, FF
Sector C: CW, DW, FF

The Lyrans have made these shipyards:
CW(Sector a), DW(Sector b), FF(Sector a)

I guess my point is that I always look to the "Production Limits" entry in the scenario, and would overlook the MSY entries elsewhere. So I think it would be clearer that the production lines should look like:

Sector A: CA, 2CW, DW, 2FF
Sector B: DN, 2CW, 2DW, FF
Sector C: CW, DW, FF

re: Hydrans
It states that the Hydrans have built 3 turns worth of a full shipyard (and they have an off-map CW & FF shipyard).

I guess I'm just doubting that the Hydrans would have 25 EPs to devote to Shipyard production as the capital is falling (and certainly wouldn't have the EPs to build them at the same time as replacing the SY). Why not just give the off-map PRD (as you already have). Will they really have enough income to use them once the shipyard come back online?

(Chris could the Hydrans have the EPs to use the shipyard once it's back online?) I can see the extra SYs if they were using a Medium Shipyard+minor shipyards.

re: Hydran FCRs
Are you proposing that the Hydrans have replaced the 3 FCRs that they historically lost by this time? That's a chunk of change to pay for. Just an observation.

re: Sector B, Kzintis
You've seemed to of copy/pasted too many SDFs for the Kzinti. They have 4 at the Homeworld (AO line), and 4 at the Marquis (AO line). They have 6 DFs (F+E line) at the Homeworld, and 1 DF at the Marquis (F+E line).

Are you proposing that they have 8SDFs & 7 DFs total?

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 04:06 pm: Edit

There is no way the Hydrans have that kind of EP on hand. I could see maybe one yard, the CW, if you just wanted to give the Hydrans something to do.

I have found that the money that gets stuck offmap can be useful for these types of things. The PRD offmap is most reasonable. One FCR offmap per turn is also not unreasonable, but using that assumption means we would have to remove carriers.

The Hydrans just do not have the funds for this many toys. Most of them have to go if we are to make anything near reasonable.

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 04:36 pm: Edit

Scott, remember that file Chuck sent out was for a turn 10 scenario just to show what we want to end up like.

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 05:49 pm: Edit

Referring to the history and the established material, you should be able to rough out Hydran income for each turn.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 06:27 pm: Edit

Nuts, the above comments were for the Hurricane (sorry for posting it here).

OOoopsy.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 06:58 pm: Edit

You can do your tables in MS-Excel, copy just those cells, then paste them in between the parens; (here is the format):

/table{}

(but you must use a back-slash instead of the forward-slash)

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 07:49 pm: Edit

Hydran 602.4 OOB

Race	Unit Hulls #	Unit	EP	Adj AF
In Hydran Space
Hydran	AH	4	3.5	3
Hydran	CR	2	3.5	5
Hydran	CU	3	2.5	4
Hydran	CV	1	32	14
Hydran	DE	2	8	7
Hydran	DG	4	10	11
Hydran	FRD	1	10	1
Hydran	HN	3	2.5	3
Hydran	HR	4	8	8
Hydran	KN	2	6	6
Hydran	LB	1	11	11
Hydran	LM	1	11	11
Hydran	LN	5	6	6
Hydran	MB	1	10	9
Hydran	PAL	2	22	17
Hydran	RN	10	10	10
Hydran	SC	3	3.5	3
Hydran	TR	1	5	7
Hydran	UH	1	24	10
Hydran	TG	2	5	12

Edited Forgot the tugs.