Lyran 602.5 OOB:

Race	Unit Hulls #	Unit	EP Value	Adj AF
In Kzinti space
Lyran	1	DN	16	12
Lyran	3	CA	8	8
Lyran	3	CL	6	6
Lyran	3	CW	5	7
Lyran	3	DW	4	6
Lyran	6	DD	5	5
Lyran	6	FF	2.5	4
Lyran	1	TGC	8	8
Lyran	1	MB	10	9
In Lyran space
Lyran	1	CL	6	6
Lyran	1	DD	5	5
Lyran	2	FF	2.5	4
Lyran	2	FRD	10	1
Lyran	1	TGP	6	4
Lyran	1	TGC	8	8
Lyran	1	MB	10	9
In Klingon space
Lyran	1	CC	9	9
Lyran	3	CW	5	7
Lyran	3	CL	6	6
Lyran	1	SC	7	4
In Hydran space
Lyran	1	DN	16	12
Lyran	1	BC	10	10
Lyran	1	CC	9	9
Lyran	3	CA	8	8
Lyran	12	CW	5	7
Lyran	12	DW	4	6
Lyran	12	FF	2.5	4
Lyran	1	TGP	6	4
Lyran	1	CVL	19	10
Lyran	1	CWE	6	7
Lyran	1	DWE	5	6
Lyran	1	SC	7	4
Lyran	1	MB	10	9
GHQ
Lyran	2	DN	16	12
Lyran	2	BC	10	10
Lyran	1	CC	9	9
Lyran	3	CA	8	8
Lyran	3	CW	5	7
Lyran	3	CL	6	6
Lyran	3	DW	4	6
Lyran	3	FF	2.5	4
Lyran	1	CVL	19	10
Lyran	1	CWE	6	7
Lyran	1	DWE	5	6
Lyran	1	STT	10	10
Lyran	2	SC	7	4

Notes: GHQ is given as 'Forces in any of above (except Klingon):'
* The Lyrans are listed as having 3xSC and nothing heavier. This might make sense in 'basic' F&E, but seems unlikely given the EW comments that accompany the Hydran scouts in AO. It seems likely to add one or more DWs to the mix.
* R11.27 (R3) indicates that there was one CWS prototype constructed in Y168 (which has never been shown in F&E) with regular production starting in Y172.

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 12:00 am: Edit

Klingons
in Kzinti Space	UNIT HULLS #	UNIT	EP VALUE	AF
Klingons	1	C8	16	12
Klingons	2	D7C	9	9
Klingons	6	D7	8	8
Klingons	3	D6	8	7
Klingons	5	D6D	11	9
Klingons	2	D6M	10	10
Klingons	12	D5	5	7
Klingons	2	D5S	8	5
Klingons	5	F5L	4	6
Klingons	10	F5	3	5
Klingons	9	E4	2.5	4
Klingons	2	F5S	4	3
Klingons	1	D6V	18	12
Klingons	1	D7V	22	13
Klingons	1	D5V	19	12
Klingons	3	FV	12	8
Klingons	2	AD5	6	6
Klingons	2	F5E	4	4
Klingons	5	E4A	3.5	2
Klingons	1	TGA	8	8
Klingons	1	FRD	10	1
Klingons	1	MB	10	0
in Klingon Space
Klingons	1	C8	16	12
Klingons	1	D7C	9	9
Klingons	3	D7	8	8
Klingons	3	D6	8	7
Klingons	1	D6D	11	9
Klingons	1	D6M	10	10
Klingons	18	D5	5	7
Klingons	2	F5L	8	6
Klingons	4	F5	4	5
Klingons	1	FV	12	8
Klingons	1	E4A	3.5	2
Klingons	1	TGB	8	4
Klingons	1	FRD	10	1
Klingons	2	MB	10	0
In Hydran Space
Klingons	1	C8	16	12
Klingons	2	D7C	9	9
Klingons	3	D7	8	8
Klingons	6	D6	8	7
Klingons	2	D6D	11	9
Klingons	1	D6M	10	10
Klingons	9	D5	5	7
Klingons	5	F5L	4	6
Klingons	10	F5	3	5
Klingons	12	E4	2.5	4
Klingons	4	F5S	4	3
Klingons	1	D7V	22	13
Klingons	1	D5V	19	12
Klingons	1	FV	12	8
Klingons	1	AD5	6	6
Klingons	1	F5E	4	4
Klingons	1	E4A	3.5	2
Klingons	1	TGA	8	8
Klingons	1	TGB	6	4
Klingons	1	FRD	10	1
Klingons	1	MB	10	0
GHQ
Klingons	1	C8	16	12
Klingons	2	D7	8	8
Klingons	3	D6	8	7
Klingons	3	D5	5	7
Klingons	5	F5L	4	6
Klingons	10	F5	3	5
Klingons	6	E4	2.5	4
Klingons	1	F5S	4	3
Klingons	2	FV	12	8
Klingons	2	E4A	3.5	2
Klingons	1	MB	10	0
Mothball
Klingons	12	D6	8	7

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 12:01 am: Edit

Chuck, I also have some ship counts tabulated for the Klingons if you want them for totals that could be potentially be built from at start forces and the build scedule if you need that let me know.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 02:55 am: Edit

Mike:

Sure -- if you got it. Just keep them as base hulls (no variants) as this would be the upper limit (assumes no overbuilds) on that type of base hull.

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 07:22 am: Edit

That is what I have done. It will be posted later today.

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 09:48 pm: Edit

Here is the starting Klingon forces and their max build/activiations for turns 1-6

MaxBuild	Start	Turn 1	Turn 2	Turn 3	Turn 4	Turn 5	Turn 6	TOTAL
C8	2		1		1		1	5
D7C	7	1		1		1		10
D7	21	1	2	1	2	1	2	30
D6	21	1		1		1		24
D6M	3							3
D6D	3							3
D5	3	9	9	9	9	9	9	57
F5L	19	2	2	2	2	2	2	31
F5	38	4	4	4	4	4	4	62
E4	24	3	3	3	3	3	3	42
D6V	3							3
CVT	3							3
FV	7							7
E4A	19							19
FRD	3							3
MB	4							4
fff		6	12		12		12	42
CO
D7A	1
SAV	3
D6S	2
LAV	2
FTL	2
FTS	3
D6G	3
F5G	3
AO
F5J	4
ADM	6
FD7	3
D6J	3
C5	2
SAF	3
GENERAL
BP	4
DP	2
VP2	4
MA
MON	3
T-POD	4
MOTHBALL
D6	24	2	2	2	2	2	2	12
F5	12	2	2	2	2	2	2	12
E4	12	3	3	3	3			12

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 03:45 am: Edit

Here's the tally so far:

		Ship Hulls	Units	EP Value	Total EPs	Adj AF	Total AF
Klingon	2K	4	C8	16.0	64.0	12	48
Klingon	2K	5	D7C	9.0	45.0	9	45
Klingon	2K	14	D7	8.0	112.0	8	112
Klingon	2K	2	D7V	22.0	44.0	13	26
Klingon	2K	15	D6	8.0	120.0	7	105
Klingon	2K	8	D6D	11.0	88.0	9	72
Klingon	2K	4	D6M	10.0	40.0	10	40
Klingon	2K	1	D6V	18.0	18.0	12	12
Klingon	2K	42	D5	5.0	210.0	7	294
Klingon	2K	2	D5V	19.0	38.0	12	24
Klingon	2K	3	AD5	6.0	18.0	6	18
Klingon	2K	2	D5S	8.0	16.0	5	10
Klingon	2K	17	F5L	4.0	68.0	6	102
Klingon	2K	34	F5	3.0	102.0	5	170
Klingon	2K	7	FV	12.0	84.0	8	56
Klingon	2K	3	F5E	4.0	12.0	4	12
Klingon	2K	7	F5S	4.0	28.0	3	21
Klingon	2K	27	E4	2.5	67.5	4	108
Klingon	2K	9	E4A	3.5	31.5	2	18
Klingon	2K	2	TGA	8.0	16.0	8	16
Klingon	2K	2	TGB	8.0	16.0	4	8
Klingon	2K	3	FRD	10.0	30.0	1	3
Klingon	2K				0.0		0
Klingon	2K	4	VP2	6.0	24.0	2	8
Klingon	2K	2	DP	6.0	12.0	3	6
Klingon	2K	4	BP	4.0	16.0	2	8
		223			1320.0		1342
.
		Ship Hulls	Units	EP Value	Total EPs	Adj AF	Total AF
Lyran	2K	4	DN	16.0	64.0	12	48
Lyran	2K	1	STT	10.0	10.0	10	10
Lyran	2K	2	CVL	19.0	38.0	10	20
Lyran	2K	3	BC	10.0	30.0	10	30
Lyran	2K	3	CC	9.0	27.0	9	27
Lyran	2K	9	CA	8.0	72.0	8	72
Lyran	2K	2	CWE	6.0	12.0	7	14
Lyran	2K	21	CW	5.0	105.0	7	147
Lyran	2K	2	DWE	5.0	10.0	6	12
Lyran	2K	18	DW	4.0	72.0	6	108
Lyran	2K	10	CL	6.0	60.0	6	60
Lyran	2K	7	DD	5.0	35.0	5	35
Lyran	2K	4	SC	7.0	28.0	4	16
Lyran	2K	23	FF	2.5	57.5	4	92
Lyran	2K	2	TGC	8.0	16.0	8	16
Lyran	2K	2	TGP	6.0	12.0	4	8
Lyran	2K	2	FRD	10.0	20.0	1	2
Lyran	2K				0.0		0
Lyran	2K				0.0		0
Lyran	2K				0.0		0
Lyran	2K	2	BP	4.0	8.0	4	8
		117			676.5		725
.
		Ship Hulls	Units	EP Value	Total EPs	Adj AF	Total AF
Hydran	2K	2	PAL	22.0	44.0	17	34
Hydran	2K	1	LB	11.0	11.0	11	11
Hydran	2K	1	LM	11.0	11.0	11	11
Hydran	2K	4	DG	10.0	40.0	11	44
Hydran	2K	10	RN	10.0	100.0	10	100
Hydran	2K	1	CV	32.0	32.0	14	14
Hydran	2K	1	UH	24.0	24.0	10	10
Hydran	2K	4	HR	8.0	32.0	8	32
Hydran	2K	2	DE	8.0	16.0	7	14
Hydran	2K	1	TR	5.0	5.0	7	7
Hydran	2K	2	KN	6.0	12.0	6	12
Hydran	2K	5	LN	6.0	30.0	6	30
Hydran	2K	2	TG	12.0	24.0	5	10
Hydran	2K	2	CR	3.5	7.0	5	10
Hydran	2K	3	CU	2.5	7.5	4	12
Hydran	2K	4	AH	3.5	14.0	3	12
Hydran	2K	3	SC	3.5	10.5	3	9
Hydran	2K	3	HN	2.5	7.5	3	9
Hydran	2K	1	FRD	10.0	10.0	1	1
Hydran	2K	2	VP	14.0	28.0	6	12
Hydran	2K	2	BP	10.0	20.0	9	18
		56			485.5		412

Note: I left off the MBs and mothballs for now and added the Pods.

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 04:41 pm: Edit

Chuck, do you want the same chart I did on the Klingons turns 1-6 for the Kzinti and Lyrans?

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 04:48 pm: Edit

Sorry CHuck, I was hoping to have some extra time to work on this, but it turns out I will not. Sorry guys.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 06:52 pm: Edit

Mike: Yes -- thanks.

Chris: Understand.

Team: Can one of you post the Kzinti OOB chart?

Thanks.

By John Robinson (John_R) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 09:16 pm: Edit

Chuck - Where did you find info on pods?

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 09:25 pm: Edit

Lyran force breakdown with max standard hull construction:

Ship	Start	1	2	3	4	5	6	Total 1-6	Total All
DN	1		1		1		1	3	4
BC	2	1		1		1		3	5
CC	4							0	4
CA	15	1	1	1	1	1	1	6	21
CW	11	4	4	4	4	4	4	24	35
CL	18							0	18
DW	4	3	3	3	3	3	3	18	22
DD	18							0	18
FF	18	3	3	3	3	3	3	18	36
SC	4							0	4
TGC	2							0	2
TGP	2							0	2
FRD	2							0	2
BP
CO
SAV	2
LAV	1
DDG	5
FTL	1
FTS	2
SAF	1
MON	2
AP	1
TP	2
AO
CF	2
JGP	1
FF	3
DD	3
DNL	1
SP	1

By John Robinson (John_R) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 09:33 pm: Edit

		Ship Hulls	Units	EP Value	Adj AF
Kzinti	2K	2	DN	16	12
Kzinti	2K	3	CC	9	9
Kzinti	2K	11	BC	8	8
Kzinti	2K	12	CM	5	7
Kzinti	2K	3	DD	6	6
Kzinti	2K	1	CL	6	6
Kzinti	2K	7	DF	4.5	4
Kzinti	2K	18	FF	2.5	4
Kzinti	2K	6	CV	24	16
Kzinti	2K	11	MEC	6	6
Kzinti	2K	16	EFF	3.5	2
Kzinti	2K	5	CVL	18	12
Kzinti	2K	5	CVE	14	9
Kzinti	2K	2	TGT	6	8
Kzinti	2K	1	TGC	8	4
Kzinti	2K	4	SF	3.5	3
Kzinti	2K	1	FRD	10	1
		108

By John Robinson (John_R) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 09:36 pm: Edit

Mike - Are you using the OOB from 2K or AO?

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 09:48 pm: Edit

Kzinti at start forces plus max builds:

Ships	START	1	2	3	4	5	6	TURNS 1-6	TOTAL
DN	2				1		1	2	4
CC	5							0	5
BC	15	1	1	1	1	1	1	6	21
CM			2	2	4	2	4	14	14
CL	8	1		1		1		3	11
DD	3	1	2					3	6
FF	6	2	3	5	6	5	6	27	33
DF	5							0	5
SF	5							0	5
TGC	2							0	2
TGT	3							0	3
FRD	2							0	2
CV	5			1		1		2	7
CVL	4							0	4
CVE	5							0	5
MEC				1		1		2	2
CLE	5							0	5
EFF	14			1		1		2	16
VP	6							0	6
BP	4							0	4
CVW/CO
CD	1
SDF	1
LAV	2
SAV	3
FTL	1
FTS	2
CLG	2
FFG	3
MON	3
TPOD	4
AO
DNL	2
BF	2
DDV	1
DD	3
FFK	3
FF	1
FCR	2
LAD	1
SAD	1
LAS	1
SAS	1
SP	2

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 10:08 pm: Edit

duplicate of John Robinsons post on the Kzinti

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 10:08 pm: Edit

Chuck, What else do you need?

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 10:12 pm: Edit

John, I used 2K for the at start forces for the OOB for the 602

I used AO OOB for turn 1 at start forces and builds.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 03:11 am: Edit

Kzinti tally:

RACE		Unit Hulls	Units	EP Value	Total EPs	Adj AF	Total AF
Kzinti	2K	2	DN	16.0	32.0	12	24
Kzinti	2K	6	CV	24.0	144.0	16	96
Kzinti	2K	5	CVL	18.0	90.0	12	60
Kzinti	2K	5	CVE	14.0	70.0	9	45
Kzinti	2K	3	CC	9.0	27.0	6	18
Kzinti	2K	11	BC	8.0	88.0	2	22
Kzinti	2K	12	CM	5.0	60.0	9	108
Kzinti	2K	11	MEC	6.0	66.0	8	88
Kzinti	2K	16	EFF	3.5	56.0	6	96
Kzinti	2K	1	CL	6.0	6.0	7	7
Kzinti	2K	3	DD	6.0	18.0	6	18
Kzinti	2K	18	FF	2.5	45.0	4	72
Kzinti	2K	7	DF	4.5	31.5	4	28
Kzinti	2K	4	SF	3.5	14.0	3	12
Kzinti	2K	2	TGC	8.0	16.0	4	8
Kzinti	2K	1	TGT	6.0	6.0	8	8
Kzinti	2K	1	FRD	10.0	10.0	1	1
Kzinti	2K	6	VP	7.0	42.0	3	18
Kzinti	2K	4	BP	6.0	24.0	2	8
		118			845.5		737

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 03:15 am: Edit

Now that I have posted the F&E2K OOB in my balance sheet will someone double check my posted tallies -- I did find a few errors but most were on target. Thanks.

By John Robinson (John_R) on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 08:02 am: Edit

I found a few errors in the Kzinti table.

I reversed some of the data on the TGT and TGC. The TGT should be AF 4 and Total AF 8. The TGC should be AF 8 and Total AF 8.

The AF and Total AF for the CC are wrong. They should be 9 and 27 respectively.

The AF and Total AF for the BC are wrong. They should be 8 and 88 respectively.

The AF and Total AF for the CM are wrong. They should be 7 and 84 respectively.

The AF and Total AF for the CL are wrong. They should be 6 and 6 respectively.

The AF and Total AF for the MEC are wrong. They should be 6 and 66 respectively.

The AF and Total AF for the EFF are wrong. They should be 2 and 32 respectively.

I am posting my version of your table below.

		Ship Hulls	Units	EP Value	Total EPs	Adj AF	Total AF
Kzinti	2K	2	DN	16	32	12	24
Kzinti	2K	3	CC	9	27	9	27
Kzinti	2K	11	BC	8	88	8	88
Kzinti	2K	12	CM	5	60	7	84
Kzinti	2K	3	DD	6	18	6	18
Kzinti	2K	1	CL	6	6	6	6
Kzinti	2K	7	DF	4.5	31.5	4	28
Kzinti	2K	18	FF	2.5	45	4	72
Kzinti	2K	6	CV	24	144	16	96
Kzinti	2K	11	MEC	6	66	6	66
Kzinti	2K	16	EFF	3.5	56	2	32
Kzinti	2K	5	CVL	18	90	12	60
Kzinti	2K	5	CVE	14	70	9	45
Kzinti	2K	2	TGT	6	12	4	8
Kzinti	2K	1	TGC	8	8	8	8
Kzinti	2K	4	SF	3.5	14	3	12
Kzinti	2K	1	FRD	10	10	1	1
Kzinti	2K	6	VP	7	42	3	18
Kzinti	2K	4	BP	6	24	2	8
		118			843.5		701

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 05:21 pm: Edit

Well I can see we already have some of the same incongruencies with the historical OOB and the max build schedule as I had with Hurricane:

The OOB lists 23 CM hulls available (23CM + 11MEC) but the turn-1 at start plus max build schedule only allows for 16 CM hulls; we are going to have to find replacement hulls for at least 7 CM hulls as a result.

So here is what I need...

Someone go through and review the OOB tallies I loaded above and check them against Mike's max hulls chart and report any incongruencies here. If you only want to report on just one race then that would work also. Thanks.

By John Robinson (John_R) on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 05:49 pm: Edit

I'll take the Kzinti. Some of the CM/MEC can be resolved by replacing them with the CLEs put in the OOB in AO.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 06:13 pm: Edit

Here's my quick-look fix:

Max historical hulls types: 16CL (CL/CLD/CLE) [ignoring the 5CVE hulls] + 16CM (CM/MEC)

OOB as is: 1CL + 12CM + 11MEC = 24
2K Fix: 8CL + 5CM + 4CL(escorts) + 7MEC = 24
AO Fix: 3CL + 5CLD + 5CM + 4CLE + 7MEC = 24

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 06:20 pm: Edit

I'll do the Hydrans and post the max build in a couple of hours when I get home from work.