Archive through May 10, 2006
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Federation & Empire: F&E INPUT:
F&E Scenario Proposals:
Update to the F&E2K Scenario (602.0): The Tempest:
Archive through May 10, 2006
For VC regarding reducing the opponents Economy how do raids affect the VC. You can, with a successful raid, disrupt the opponents economy but it is not a permenant effect. Does this still count?
Mike:
Since we are sectorizing this scenario, it will be possible to play sectors A & B without playing C & D. We need to consider what happens if the Coalition goes to war with the Federation on T7 or T8 or T9 or not during this scenario but if you are only playing sectors A or B or both.
Rational: If I am the Coalition, playing just sector A, I will have a larger economy if it is assumed that Sector C&D are NOT at war. (Likewise, we will need to adjust the Klingon sector economies (general treasuries) to factor in a non-war status with the Federation.)
My initial thought on the variable war with the Federation would be that the Coalition player announces at the start of his player turn wether or not the Coalition will be a war with the Federation for the remainder of a given sector or combined sector scenario.
So Mike, would you be willing to submit a plan for alternate victory conditions? We don't need them right now but will in a few weeks so you have some time to think about it... 
Team:
We will also need to look at having variable Klingon sector general treasuries based on the "at war with the Federation" status:
| Turn | Sector A | Sector B | Sector C | Sector D |
| T7: No War with Feds | Economy = EAn7 | Economy = EBn7 | Not Playable | Not Playable |
| T7: At War with Feds | Economy = EAw7 | Economy = EBw7 | Economy = ECw7 | Economy = EDw7 |
| . | | | | |
| T8: No War with Feds | Economy = EAn8 | Economy = EBn8 | Not Playable | Not Playable |
| T8: At War with Feds | Economy = EAw8 | Economy = EBw8 | Economy = ECw8 | Economy = EDw8 |
| . | | | | |
| T9: No War with Feds | Economy = EAn9 | Economy = EBn9 | Not Playable | Not Playable |
| T9: At War with Feds | Economy = EAw9 | Economy = EBw9 | Economy = ECw9 | Economy = EDw9 |
So who would like to take on this proposal?
Chuck,
I think the scenario should reflect the 'historical' war against the Federation. I can't recall if the original scenario had no war with the Federation options or not, or if that was just allowed if continuing on from the previous scenario.
Between the Additional Economic Requirements, Additional Victory Conditions, and additional Federation Limited War options, its going to complicate an already complicated situation.
Just my .02 Kronar.
In general, I would think that if Sectors C & D are not represented, it should be assumed that the invasion of the Fed happens as normal. Since you aren't in charge of that front, you shouldn't get to decide what happens there (you're a sector commander, not an overall one).
However, it might be politic to allow a choice of not invading in the case of a Sector B+C setup....
Probably the best way to go is to have it be a variant form of the scenario (i.e., all contained together in section H or something).
Most problematic VC changes would be Sector A. The Hydrans should already be depressed by this scenario, allowing more economy and builds to the Klingons is going to need a heavy price.
Sector B is better, since the Feds will send in the 4th + most/all builds + EPs anyway.
So... maybe instead of option H, it's an option for Sector B or the full version only. Assume that all extra resources go to Sector B (unless playing A+B), minus a little siphoned off to reinforce the Fed Border.
CT:
Making this a sector scenario already makes it a complicated situation.
Craig and James:
See (602.4) & (602.41), the Coalition always had the historical option of delaying their assault of the Federation through T9. If there is a historical option in the original Tempest scenario then we need to reflect those options within the sectors scenarios. Also, being a Coalition sector commander will give you insight into the overall Coalition plan anyway so you will "know" that the "Grand Admiral" decided to delay his attack until T8.
Chuck:
I was doing the scenario set-up for Tempest on the new CB file. Noticed that from the original set-up OOB we are short an AD5 in the list above.
The original set up notes indicate that the Eastern Fleet is in addition. In the EF there is a CVT(TGA) and TGA. These are missing from the list above although the Pods seem to be their.
Is the IWR in addition to the numbers above? The original set-ups say to add the IWR to the printed scenario OOB.
There are 12 D6 in the original mothball fleet the IWR adds 6 more has this been addressed above?
Lar:
Added the AD5 to the chart.
The Eastern Fleet contains whatever (703.0) OOB says it contains. All pods are in the "Gerenal" notes in the OOB and are available at start (remember also the CVT has hard welded carrier pods). THe EF is NOT added to the table as it is and inactive fleet (and might remain such if the Klingons don't attack the Feds on turns 7-9).
The same goes for the IWR; it is NOT added to the charts and the six additional D6s may not be added to the IWR until the Klingons attack.
Did I understand and answer your questions?
Lar:
Check your F5E count as I found and corrected an error on my posted ship count.
Chuck
Yes you did.
I will check it.
Chuck:
1. In the set-up of Revised Tempest how are you proposing the extra ships for the Klingons and Lyrans be divided amongst the sectors?
2. In the initial set-up the original scenario says that the Feds will get their prime teams as per the OOB rule. (One per turn while at peace) This means they will start with 6 Turns worth (6 PT). My question is what are proposing the numbers be for the rest of the races?
3. Admirals: How will they be didvided up amongst the sectors? Will it be one per sector (if available) and any extra to the GHQ forces?
Example: Klingons have 6 available. Should they get one in Sector A, B, C, D and the remaining two for the players discretion with the GHQ forces?
4. Police Ships: pretty much the same question as above. How many per race? How will they be distributed as a sector scenario?
5. Will there be some rules involved in the sector scenario that need to be listed separately (being different) when the whole scenario (all sectors) is played simultaneously?
Lar:
1. Klingons in Klingon space: Evenly divided by sectors A-D with a lean toward sector D as it is a "main effort".
2. See my update of Hurricane as we'll do something like that (Available PTs = Max possible - some attrition).
3. ADMs are assigned and released by fleet (so I see one per sector -- A:KL; B:KL,GHQ-L; C:K,GHQ-K; D:K,GHQ-K).
4. See my update of Hurricane as we'll do something like that (Available POLs = Max possible - some attrition).
5. See my update of Hurricane as we'll do something like that.
Chuck I will look at it more closely. Thanks.
Okay mudding through this stuff here is what I got...Proposal of course.
| Police Ships thru Turn 6 | | | |
| At start | GHQ | Losses |
| Hydran | 2C | 1C, 2F, 1V | -2C |
| Kzinti | 2C | 4C, 1F, 2V | -1C, -1F |
| Fed C | 1C | 0 | 0 |
| Fed D | 2C | 0 | 0 |
| Fed E | 1C | 0 | 0 |
| Kling A | 1C | 4C, 1V, 1F | 0 |
| Kling B | 1C | 3C, 1V, 1F | -1C |
| Kling C | 1C | 2C | 0 |
| Kling D | 1C | 2C | 0 |
| Lyran A | 2C | 2C, 1F | -1C |
| Lyran B | 1C | 3C, 2F | 0 |
| Prime Teams | | | |
| At start | GHQ | Losses |
| Hydran | 0 | 3 | -1 |
| Kzinti | 0 | 4 | -2 |
| Fed | 6* | 0 | 0 |
| Kling A | 0 | 2 | 0 |
| Kling B | 0 | 3 | -1 |
| Kling C | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Kling D | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Lyran A | 0 | 2 | 0 |
| Lyran B | 0 | 4 | 0 |
| *Fed Deploymnt=1 per fleet (except 2nd) |
| Admirals | |
| Available |
| Hydran | 3 |
| Kzinti | 3 |
| Fed | See OOB |
| Kling A | 2 |
| Kling B | 2 |
| Kling C | 1 |
| Kling D | 1 |
| Lyran A | 1 |
| Lyran B | 2* |
*One Lyran ADM was in the Home Fleet and may be set-up in either Sector at players discretion.
Thoughts??
Second Lyran ADM needs to go into the sector B GHQ as this is the Lyran Main Effort.
GHQ does not apply toward the Hydrans or Kzinti.
Based on the (602.5) breakouts it looks like we will need several types of GHQs for each sector:
Lyran forces in Klingon Territory: A-B
Lyran forces in Lyran Territory: A-B
Lyran forces anywhere but Klingon Territory: A-B
Klingon forces in Klingon Territory: A-D
Klingon forces anywhere: A-D
Another note: If playing any combo of the sector scenarios, the Klingon (Coalition) player will need to declare the war status with the Federation during the production phase even if playing a sector where the Federation is not involved (A&B). Klingon GHQ forces from C&D are "released" to assist in A&B. Since it is a legal option in the original scenario, it need to be reflected in the sectors scenarios. We will then need to have a negative victory condition impact if the Klingons don't declare war on the Feds but withdraw forces from their C&D GHQ forces.
Chuck for the Klingons I have this for extra ships that need to be assigned (not in the original set-up) to GHQ's
| Klingons | Totals | | Klingons | Totals |
| MON | 4 | | D5G | 2 |
| C5 | 2 | | D5H | 3 |
| FD7 | 3 | | D5 | 3 |
| D7A | 2 | | F5 | 12 |
| D5A | 1 | | F5J | 4 |
| MD5 | 3 | | F5E | 1 |
| D6D | 3 | | E4 | 2 |
| D5D | 3 | | E4A | 2 |
| D6J | 3 | | E4R | 5 |
| D6G | 3 | | FTS | 3 |
| F5G | 4 | | FTL | 2 |
| D6S | 6 | | LAV | 2 |
| D5S | 3 | | SAV | 2 |
| F5S | 4 | | SAF | 4 |
|
Was this what you have for the F5E, one extra? How about the 2 extra E4As?
Chuck do you have a preliminary write up of this scenario yet? You know something like a first draft listing all of the basic rules the set-ups etc?
Few more qusetions regarding this scenario:
Is it assumed that the number of survey ships are normal (no addidtions or subtractions) at this point?
What missions can Alliance tugs be set up to do at start? (GF scenario has A,B,D, and M but what about L, S, or W?
Should SAFs be required to be assigned only to main efforts? What about Aux units?
Should the Klingon Swarm total be given for those players that use this scenario to begin the rest of the GW?
Sorry about the holdup with Tempest as things have been really busy of late (I'm the project officer in the final fews weeks of multi-year convertion of an Active Duty USAF squadron to an ANG Missile Warning Squadron in Alaska).
I'll post more scenario rewrite details in the near future.
=====================
Lar:
Whatever I did in Hurricane, we'll clone that info, adjust those numbers as needed and move on.
Lyran forces issue.
Hurricane Sector B is main Lyran effort.
If we clone that then the Lyran main effort Sec B has significantly less, and worse, ships than Sec A.
This assumes that the GHQ ships will be split roughly evenly between A and B, and not declared General GHQ. Also though need to look at Sector B ship quality.
Also, just as we were playing with things, Sec D gets the East Fleet with Sector C getting the "Forces in Klingon Territory".
The East fleet alone is 3 times that of the the Fed 7th and won't require much to beat down the 7th SB.
You also need to handle tugs doing shipyards and/or colonies (these don't have mission letters, so might be missed when considering Lar's question about tugs).
You can also have Convoys doing this duty for which they are well suited, freeing up valuable Tug capacity for other duties.
Yep, how many convoys does each race get in their 'at start' forces? (not near my books right now)