I have a proposal for a new ship: the SWS Space Warning Ship

Built on a DN hull, remove all weapons, except phasers III and add special sensors. The first of these ships was built by the Federation in Y170. The Klingon responded in Y172 with their own variant of the C8. Available to other races in Y175.

F&E data would be 2-12*/0-6 , cost 32, conversion from DN 16, CR 10 (if based on a 12 compot DN, modify if other DN hull used). Scout EW = 6 if in scout slot, 2 otherwise.

This ship has a huge reaction zone of three hexes.


Note 1: The requirement for a DN hull and the cost would limit the number of these ship built
Note 2: The reduced EW if not in the scout slot is to prevent the use of this ship in the formation bonus, it is not built for that role.

By Tim Losberg (Krager) on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 02:35 am: Edit

it could have a 4 hex reaction range and be crewed exclusively with Orion sex slaves and I'd still never ever ever ever ever give up a DN hull to build....
sorry... but a DN hull for a non combat unit is too much of a sacrfice for anyone but the Lyrans....

By Michael H.Oliver (Mholiver) on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 07:03 am: Edit

alway picking on the Lyrans...hhhhhhhhh..THAT a case for the HIGH CAT LORD for Discrimination Case against you Tim....lol....mholiver

By Philippe le bas (Phil) on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 09:22 am: Edit

I want it to be a sacrifice .... otherwise you would build too much of this thing.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 09:53 am: Edit

How could it have a bigger scan area than a starbase?

By Joe Stevenson (Alligator) on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 10:03 am: Edit

For a ship EW scout, I'd build at least 1.

No sweat for the Lyrans, in any case, even w/o the extra reaction trick

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 10:22 am: Edit

I think reaction also has to do with speed. To react three hexes would require +50% more speed and ships are already traveling as fast as they can navigate to the target.

IMHO, to get a reaction radious or three hexes would require something akin to a RTN called a reaction net, where you have a defined center (base?) and defined travel lines and navigational nodes in each hex of the outer portion of the reaction net. Then ships could travel at top warp nearly the whole way to the target at dash speed.

By Michael Lui (Michaellui) on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 11:21 am: Edit

Or put it on a DNL, it has a better power curve than a standard DN, and say that only Fast/X-ships can benefit from the 3 hex reaction.

By Damon Robert Anderson (Rihan704) on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 12:14 pm: Edit

I don't see how a ship can generate the same Electronic Warfare as a starbase. Maybe five as the DMH+SPC+SKF, but then the Roms lose their uniqueness in a chorus of, "Me, toos."

By Philippe le bas (Phil) on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 12:22 pm: Edit

If the DMH with its weapon can generate 5 EWP, I don't see why a DN stripped of all its weapons and designed only with electronic warfare in mind (or better a DNL as per Michael suggestion) could not generate 6 EWP.

About uniqueness and "me too" the Romulans were happy to lose one of their uniqueness recently (CVD ...) ;-)

By Damon Robert Anderson (Rihan704) on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 03:09 pm: Edit

I fail to see how rectifying an imbalance equates to losing an uniqueness.

By Philippe le bas (Phil) on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 04:24 pm: Edit

That's your opinion and I respect it.
As well as you are allowed to dislike my proposal, but please don't read in it something that I have not in mind.

By Daniel G. Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 04:25 pm: Edit

I take it the object is to allow all ships stacked with the SWS to react three hexes. I think they would all have to be fast ships for that to work. Also, the Demonhawk puts a defacto limit of 5 EW on a DN hull. It has 8 special sensors and DN power when using both a SP and a SK scout mod but only 5 EW.

By Philippe le bas (Phil) on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 04:30 pm: Edit

Replace the two Plasma-S and two plasma-F from the Demonhawk with special sensors. Replace its 11 phaser 1 with APR and labs: is it not enough for 1 more EWP ?

By Philippe le bas (Phil) on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 04:44 pm: Edit

Take the F-DD to F-SC conversion, you replace 4xPhot and 4xPh1 with 8XSpecial sensor and have a 4xEWP ships.

Now, look at the Fed DNH. Replace 6xPhot, 6xDrones, 14xPh-1 with 10xSpecial Sensors, 6xLabs, 10xAPR. Isn't it enough for 6xEWP ?

By Tim Losberg (Krager) on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 05:19 pm: Edit

how about adding a requirement that the Feds and Klingons are REQUIRED to build one or they are charged a 35 EP penelty..

By Kevin Howard (Jarawara) on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 10:09 pm: Edit

I see no requirement needed. I'd build one of these monsters, two maybe, as either Fed or Klingon.

Heck, with the Feds cranking out a DN per turn, I'd build several of these. A 10 point DN in the formation box can be killed by a mauler. An extra 10 point DN can be wasted on the line by anything. A 10 point DN-Scout in the scout slot can be darn nigh impervious to attack (not entirely, but close to it); a 12 pointer even moreso.

And three hexes of reaction? The Feds need that!

6 EW? I can see that, definately. What's not to love? And therefore, probably too good of a proposal.

I'd say no to the proposal, simply because it would become too commonplace to see them everywhere, thus changing the history of the DN class. However, if you wanted them near the end of the war, like a late war development or something, I could see that.

By Sandro Colacito (Sandro) on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 12:25 am: Edit

I'd definitely build one as the Feds and the Lyrans, maybe even the Gorns. All 3 races have DNs and $ to spare. I can't see the Klingons sparing a C8 hull plus forgoing the option to sub an extra B10 roll. It would be sweet for the Kzinti to finally have a safe scout as mine always seem to die but I can't see them having a hull or $ to spare. Hydrans no way. Roms? Maybe on an old VUL hull.

How would you handle the Fed DN, DN+, DNG? How about a Gorn DNC? Would the Lyrans try this on a BC?

By Philippe le bas (Phil) on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 01:20 am: Edit

Modified proposal:

A SWS is built on a DNL hull. It counts against Fast warship limits and CVA limits (you cannot built a CVA and a SWS the same year).
Availability date: Fed Y171 (one can be substitued for the S171 CVA), Klingon Y172, others Y175.

F&E data would be 2-11F*/0-6 , cost 32, conversion from DNL 16, CR 9. Scout EW = 6 if in scout slot, 2 otherwise.

If stacked with a base and a Tug with mission D (supply source) this ship has a huge reaction zone of three hexes. Only Fast/X ships can benefit from its 3 hexes reaction zone.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 10:41 pm: Edit

I think the powers that be have determined that EW more than 4 on one ship is highly improbable (and a rarity). I dont see them being in agreement to allow a class of fast uberships with an EW of 6. You may be stuck with the 4EW cap.

By Michael Lui (Michaellui) on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 01:31 pm: Edit

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Hydrans no way.

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Quote:

F&E data would be 2-11F*/0-6

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By Larry E. Ramey (Hydrajak) on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 01:44 pm: Edit

There aren't enough X/Fast ships to make the extended reaction zone useful. Not until Y181 anyway.


I could see an CX getting a Scout mod and making a 3-11/4EWP or whatever unit and having some of these abilities. I might trade a CX build for this. Would never give up a DN. NEVER EVER EVER give up a CVA.

By Robert Padilla (Zargan) on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 02:40 pm: Edit

Why not let it keep the two-hex reaction zone even after moving? You'd still be getting the same effect of having a three hex reaction area, but it would be more flexible. Limit reaction movement to two hexes (as it currently is). It could open up some nice tactical oppurtunities.

By Tim Losberg (Krager) on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 03:04 pm: Edit

even with the added sensors and power, I doubtit would have a greater ability to detect incoming units that a Starbase would, and you are giving it a MUCH greater ability then any base or EWN can provide.. I just don't see how this "works" as a game mechanic.

By Michael Lui (Michaellui) on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 03:21 pm: Edit

Actually no. The thing about ship based scouts is that they are mobile. The base has a range of 15 for almost all of the SS functions. That means that the fleet has to stay close to the base to benefit from the SS. A warship can go almost anywhere at anytime.

You can easily attribute a higher EW rating for the enhanced flexibility of being able to move. After all, look at the differences between the Fed GSC and SC. They both have an EW rating of 4 but the SC has 8 SS and the GSC only has 4. However the GSC has the power to do something with those SS besides distract drones/ID objects/control more drones.