Yeah, but I was thinking of something for us poorer gamers who can't afford or don't want to pay $80-$110+ for stuff like this. Personally, I'd love to have such an item, but by the time I can scrape enough extra cash to buy it, it'll probably be sold out. 'Se la vie' for a poor student.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 01:18 pm: Edit

Joshua, I do know the pain that lack of money brings. Back in '87, when I transferred into California, my take-home pay was $735 twice a month and my rent was $745 per month plus all utilities.

On a good note, SVC just said in another topic that they have a fair stock of LSMs that shoud last for a few years.


Garth L. Getgen

By Mike Ptak (Norsehound) on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 01:45 am: Edit

Made these for the Lyrans and Kzinti...

Abstracted maps on a provincial basis, marking the location of major planets, star bases, battle stations, and capitals. They would be broken up by province, and each province displays it's total EP production. Each planet would also have a +3 (small) or +5 (Large) included in the province space for completeness.

This way, players who have invaded territories can mark off areas that have been captured and aren't part of the onmap economy. Could also be used for advanced planning and placement of newly produced ships.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 10:28 am: Edit

Mike P. I'm not following what you've done. Do you have an image that you can post??

(Note: You can post images on the BBS, but you can post the URL link to it on your web site.)


Garth L. Getgen

By Mike Ptak (Norsehound) on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 08:31 pm: Edit

Hmm... I sense the need for using Illustrator...

What I've done is re-created the Lyran and Kzinti on-map areas, and divided them up on a provincial basis. Inside each province are the locations of BATS, BS, Planets, and capitals.

Included in a box in each province (near it's name) is the total amount of EP that province can make that turn (including planets). In each planet-circle is the total EP that planet can make per turn.

This way, if an opposing force contests or captures that province, that much EP is subtracted from the board. Counters can be made (CAPTURE),(CONTESTED) and for planets, (DEVESTATED), to put on a nation's territorial chart.

The chart can also be used when a non-phasing player could be planning out future production. Ships that are allocated for building can be placed on the "national chart" to be deployed when officially 'purchased.'

And for the eventual Civil wars (Whenever that is... and the Lyrans as an example) Territories owned by one 'side' of the civil war are color-coded with the rest. This way, if the Red claw duchy went against the Enemy's blood, the respective territories would be colored differently to differentiate the territories owned by each faction.

I'll see if I can get an example up soon.

By Mike Ptak (Norsehound) on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 09:32 pm: Edit

Ok, here it is.

Bear in mind that I don't know all the names of the provinces, and some of the total EPs of a country might be off or wrong. I've broken up each duchy's individual EP income also, for ease of reference in a possible civil war scenario.

http://home.comcast.net/~norsehound/Lyran-Territory-Chart.jpg

If SVC likes the idea I can post the Kzin one, also.

The only place I see this having problems is the Feds, and maybe the ISC.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 09:47 pm: Edit

Mike,

Might be useful as a play-aid, but not as a playing map.

Someplace on my hard-drive, I have a F&E map that I changed into a proveicial map. I'll post it if I can find it.


Garth L. Getgen

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 11:06 pm: Edit

By the way, I count 26 EP for Far Stars, not 42, and you forgot Enemy's Blood.


Garth L. Getgen

By Mike Ptak (Norsehound) on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 11:40 pm: Edit

Fixed and re-sized for convienence.

Also added copyright information, though this has not been 'officially' submitted to SVC yet.

By Kevin Howard (Jarawara) on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 01:32 am: Edit

I was under the impression that the capital was not part of the Foremost Duchy, but was instead semi-autonomous (and probably was in fact divied up amongst the four major Duchies, perhaps planet by planet).

Therefore, Foremost would only have 29 ep, and the capital would be either be separate with 42 ep, or perhaps far less to the "Capital Duchy", and most of the 42 points would be divied up amongst the four main Duchies.

Maybe that divie of the capital would be inequal, so that more would go to the Red Claw and the Enemy's Blood, less to Foremost and Far Stars, thus making the four Duchies more equal (except for the Enemy's Blood, which is 10 short due to the LDR breaking away).

By Daniel G. Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 02:08 am: Edit

Kevin,

I believe that the Emperor had been Duke of Foremost prior to the Lyran Civil War just before the Four Powers War. At the end of the Civil War the Duke that had control of the Capital became King, put a trusted and loyal family member into his old position of Duke, and used the combined Home and Dutchy fleets to reinforce his control over the empire. So while the Capital province isn't technically part of the Foremost Dutchy, the practical aspect is that the Duke of Foremost is just a puppet of the Emperor.

By Mike Ptak (Norsehound) on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 02:48 am: Edit

I wondered the exact same thing about the Patriach.

Dividing up Kzinti territory is deceptively difficult. Sure, each 'realm' is ruled by a leader (Duke, Count, Marquis, Baron, Patriarch), but how large is each 'realm?'

I tried to stick to the Order of battle to decide who has control over what province. Since most of the Count's fleets in the west are deployed in the three territories there, I felt the Count had absolute control over these areas. Likewise, the Duke's fleet can only deploy within two hexes of the Klingon border. There is an exception here, as the Duke's starbase is actually located in territory controlled by the Patriarch.

It is possible to isolate the Lyran and Kzinti capitals into their own provinces, but their inclusion into the local area makes sense. Both the Kzinti partriarch and the Lyran King use their powerful military to also keep the other provinces in line and control the rest of the empire.

In a civil war scenario, then, the Order of Battle would either have to be changed to assume a coup took place and the capital is in dispute, or balance the other powers out against the capital to have an effective mini-war within an empire's given territory.

That is, unless SVC wants to print up larger versions of the F&E Empire's territories to conduct seperate games in.

(That's another reason why civil wars is so appealing: small wars in smaller territories.)

I also did a prototype chart for the Kzin.
http://home.comcast.net/~norsehound/Kzinti-Territory-Chart.jpg

By Kevin Howard (Jarawara) on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 03:59 am: Edit

Hmmm... I would think that the Duke would have the Duke's Fleet Starbase under his own control. I'd put that province into the Duke's territory, maybe even the empty province next to it.

After all, wasn't the Duke supposed to be the 2nd most important of the Royalty. Having provincial control right up to the edge of the capital would be somewhat normal in that case.

Remember, if you want the Patriarch to have more territory, there is nothing that says the off-map must all be the Barony. You could assume that at least a province and maybe even one of the off-map planets are actually part of the Patriarch's zone. The off map starts there due to the design of the gameboard, not of where the Baron's territory necessarily starts.

Overall, I like your maps. I wonder if maybe we should design bigger scale maps for the civil war scenarios, to be included in the product.

By Mike Ptak (Norsehound) on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 05:20 am: Edit

Hehehehehehe....

Funny you should mention that Kevin. I'm in the process of making an up-scaled F&E map for the Kzinti- expanding one hex into seven-hex spaces. I'm not sure weather to include the Barony in the map, as their territories were never charted.

I could just group the Duke's territories to include the Patriarch's current holdings- and leave the Patriarch with control over the 3-hex province with the capital. Or I could include the capital altogether, and any civil wars would have the patriarchy fleet as a neutral party or become disipated with the remainder of the other forces.

I'd like to know if SVC likes the counter idea though, but I guess I'll have to wait for his input.

By Mike Ptak (Norsehound) on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 07:46 am: Edit

(The counter idea is in the General F&E civil war thread. I have also posted a conjecture/prototype Kzinti Civil War F&E map in the Kzinti CivWar thread. Further discussion here will be on the playaids, and weather anyone wants them.)

By Stewart W Frazier (Frazikar) on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 08:36 pm: Edit

Mike, the Duke has responsibility for the SE BATS in the Count's territory and the southern two hexes in the Marquis as well as the SB in 1304...

By Mike Ptak (Norsehound) on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 08:52 pm: Edit

True, the Duke's deployment orders include that hex, but for simplicity's sake I included it in the count's region. The same is true with the Marquis hexes and the starbase in 1304.

My reasoning is while the Duke does not administer these facilities, he is allowed to send and maintain ships there to guard the border and spare forces elsewhere. The Starbase is for the duke's use of course, but for whatever reason it was not located closer to the border.

This all might change if there's a positive reaction to the F&E Kzin space map I posted in CW:Kzin. But for this playaid however, I felt it was better to abstract it this way. I might give it a serious fix if SVC wants it for F&E:CW.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 09:23 pm: Edit

The Marquis Zone in small since he's the one responsible for losing Cygnus and the border provinceses to the Federation.

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 06:57 pm: Edit

Does anyone have an idea on what the Marquis looked like at its maximum size? I'm still searching the background notes, but this is what I've come up with so far: Marquis.gif

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 07:40 pm: Edit

There is no specific information in the database, so your guess is as good as anyones.

By Mike Ptak (Norsehound) on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 11:54 pm: Edit

SVC; I am in the process of trying to make more of these play-aid territorial maps for F&E. Would you be interested in having copies of my files when they are done?

I'm also re-doing the Lyran and Kzinti ones... the hex sizes were off and I'd like to clean them up a little.

Any requests on addition to these play-aids? Not to many though, as I'm trying to fit them on letter-sized paper.

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 02:00 pm: Edit

No tholians (Klingon territory). Klingon eastern marches (Klingon territory straight through Tholian space and connecting with Romulan space). Paravian options in the Gorn/ISC neutral zone.

By Mike Ptak (Norsehound) on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 06:30 pm: Edit

It's been a while...

In leiu of trying to make a cut-down version of F&E (See the ultra-lite beer and pretzels thread), I thought about making a graphical chart showing when ships were available Year-wise and what thier cost was.

It would be a flow chart with points marking the ship, it's cost, and it's year available, and lines tracing it back to it's parent class(es). Such a thing might exist, or might not, but I thought it was worth a contribution.

By Tim Losberg (Krager) on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 11:45 am: Edit

Mike,
I have done something similiar, not so much a flow chart as a chronological order of each class..
I find it very usful for long term planning ow when I have a crippled ship on a SB and I want to quickly see what it can be converted to.

By Dave Butler (Dcbutler) on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 01:25 pm: Edit

Heck, I reformat the SITs so that they're ordered by base hull, then YIS within the hull, then alphabetically within common hull and YIS.