Archive through January 23, 2013
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Federation & Empire: F&E QUESTIONS:
F&E Q&A:
Archive through January 23, 2013
OK, an odd one has come up.
My opponent has a shiny new ADW escort and a nice FWE escort to go along with it. Just no carrier handy. If these ships go on the line, they don't operate together, they don't get the escort bonus, they lose 1 compot, yada, yada, yada.
But they *did* have a carrier. They were used to escort an AuxCV into battle. The damage was great, the need to retreat imminent, so they crippled the ADW and self-killed the AuxCV to avoid the slow pursuit.
So... At this point, are the two escorts still part of a carrier group?
Normally a CV which loses an escort still remains a group, but if the tensy-tiny little part missing from your carrier group is *the carrier*, is it really a carrier group anymore?
If it's still a group, the crippled ADW can't be directed upon in pursuit unless the FWE is also blown away. And if the FWE is targeted, it still gets the +2 escort bonus. And they still have full compot.
If it's no longer a group, that ADW is dead! (Well, would have been, but we already played it out.)
Read 515.14.
Yeah? So what does it mean? It says that carriers without escorts still count as carrier groups. But this is escorts without the carrier. Does it still count as a carrier group?
It says that you can reassign escorts on groups with cripples in it. In this case your carrier is crippled and one of your escorts is crippled. So, this group can be reorganized within the rules.
I think his question was that if for some reason the CV of the group is destroyed before all escorts, are the remaining escorts of that group STILL a group with any/all of the benefits that go along with being in a CV group. Without looking at the rules (I think I need to go e23 shopping...) I believe the answer is "NO" because the the actual CV is the component that allows groups to be formed in this case. It's stated somewhere before the allowance of crippled group reorganization.
Sorry, I misread the question. Will research further and get back with you. Thanks Andrew.
"...before the allowance of crippled group reorganization."
So if it is ruled that the group reorganizes for retreat, i.e., disbands... what if it is used in combat before retreat? Would it still be a 3-ship carrier group for combat, even though it has no actual carrier in the group?
Thanks Mike, no rush on this one. I allowed my opponent to do it because he has based his tactics on this assumption. This will only be for the exceedingly rare 'next' time.
Basically, those two escorts remain a 'group' until reorganized for pursuit (detached from their carrier (308.122)) or in the next turn's combat phase (during group organization)...
They would be a three-ship group in the pursuit battle as the ADW is crippled and the FWE would be one of the three uncrippled per (307.31) and (307.32)...
Q433.432 Could a Sector Base (452.0) convert a single Romulan modular SparrowHawk or SkyHawk under 433.432 when moving during the operational movement (105.IW) 3B2?
Rules for consideration:
(433.432) allows a starbase to make up to 3 modular conversions over the course of a turn.
(433.19) allows a starbase to make mulitiple conversions totalling 3 EPs if not in the capital hex, or 5 EPs if the starbase is in the capital hex.
(452.17) A Sector Base may make a single point conversion (433.0) during the production phase (105.IW) 2B3.
Can the Romulans use Conversion During Repair (425.2) to gain an 1EP discount converting a FH to a NH or a FHB to a NHB? According to 425.25 Hull Types CDR cannot be used to gain a discount when changing the hull type. On the 2012 SITs the NH is listed as a "Super Heavy Cruiser" and the FH as a "Heavy Cruiser". But in effect this is just a conversion from a CA to a CC. Should the Romulans get their discount or not?
Yes they can. Look at the base hull of the FH and NH. both are FH(3) under the Base Hull listings in the SIT.
However, several FH to NH? and the FH to SUB conversions have the "double-dagger" two step discount marking, implying that the FH and NH are different base hull types. The SIT is internally inconsistent on this point.
the double dagger two step fire hawk conversions are all related to the Superhawks not the NovaHawks.
The exceptions to the above are related to SPx to NHx.
Ah, good point.
Q310.0 When determining if (310.0) Small Scale Combat can be used with a force of a carrier without escorts, and 2 other ships which have not been previously designated as ad-hoc escorts under (515.34) and (515.35), disqualify such a battleforce from using (310.0)?
Rules for consideration:
(105.IW) Sequence of Play
5-3B: Available forces are organized (302.31). Prior to the initial combat round only, determine if small-scale combat Battle Force size restrictions (310.11) apply; if so, smallscale combat (310.0) must be used in Phase 5 - Step 3B and all following rounds in that Battle Hex.
5-3C: Players secretly establish carrier and other escort groups (515.15). These cannot be changed until the Pursuit Phase. Exception (308.113). Certain tug and transport missions may be assigned; see (509.1).
(515.13) REQUIRED SIZE: If a group does not have the requisite number of escorts, it functions normally but counts for command purposes as if it were the minimum size specified in (515.2). This is based on the current composition of the group. If a group had more than the minimum number of ships, the loss of any ships above the minimum does not require that command slots for those “missing” ships be left vacant unless the missing ship is the one required light escort (515.35).
(310.11) BATTLE FORCE: If both players have no more than three units (or equivalents) with a combined total of no more than fourteen offensive and no more than nineteen defense factors, use this Small Scale-Combat system, not the regular combat system. This system is used beginning at Sequence of Play Sub-Step 5-3J and ending after SoP Sub-Step 5-6B. If a Battle Hex
begins combat using the Small-Scale Combat then the Battle Hex must complete all following combat rounds using Small-Scale Combat. If the battle hex begins using the regular combat system, then all combat rounds in that hex use the regular combat system. Do not switch back and forth between systems in a single Battle Hex.
Turtle:
Player's must follow (310.11).
SSC qualification is done in SoP 5-3B; ad hocs are added next in 5-3C. So it is not possible to use the ad hoc rule to lower one's compot to qualify for SSC.
The carrier may go without escorts as long as there are available command slots available for the missing escorts. Remember that sequence of play events leading up to SSC must still be followed.
And why would it matter beyond the command slot issue above since there is no directed damage in SSC?
Question related to Turtles original question but a bit tangential. I understand the clarificaton made by FEDS. But in his original argument even if he was above the compot limit of 14-19 he could limit himself to 14-19 to qualify for ESSC without trying to appeal to lowered compot for ad-hocs?
I mean suppose I had kzinti force of CVL FF SF. Ostensibly 17(half) - 16. however it can voluntarily limit itself to being 14-16 to qualify for ESSC correct? Or it could also claim its full compot and thus make itself ineligible.
Am I doing this wrong? I suppose Turtles question brings me to think I am doing the voluntarily restrict my compot thing incorrectly.
Edit:
I just looked up the rule. I apologize for not copying it verbatim but I am at work and under time constraints. Basically it says as long as you have no more than 3 units and are facing a force eligible for ESSC you may choose to use ESSC and restrict yourself to limits of 14-19. Further it says if two forces with no more than 3 units ea. both exceeding 14-19 may mutually choose to use ESSC and limit themselves to 14-19.
431.37 Accelerated Production.
Does this rule let you build a unit before its YIS date?
And if not, what does the text "No Early Variants" mean in the SITs if not prevention of this particular rule?
And does accelerated production allow you to convert, say a DN to a CVA, on the turn before the CVA is set to be produced (of course using this turns fighters and EP)?
Eric,
Here is the answer.
No you can't build the unit before the YIS date, just the base hull.
You will need to search for 431.37 on the page.
Thomas, that doesn't seem to answer my question. I understood I couldn't go over the limits of carriers, scouts, maulers, etc.
I was wondering if the YIS date could be accelerated by producing a unit a turn early.
On the same thought process, can you use accelerated production to convert an existing hull to something that wouldn't be available to next turn?
537.12 Infiltration
Is a FRD a valid target? (if so woot, I got one!)
While bases aren't valid targets (though I think a SIDS should be) it only mentions unbreakable groups as invalid.
Argument on Q537.12: The rule states "(537.12) INFILTRATION: Once per turn, one resistance
movement on one planet can attempt to infiltrate one of the ships (not bases) at the planet's location." Emphasis applied. The rule requires you to attack a ship. A FRD is a non-ship unit, and thus is not a valid target for an infiltration attack. The argument regarding "only mentions unbreadkable groups as invalid" doesn't change the fact that the rule itself positively requires a ship to be a target. Given that (ostensibly) F&E takes great care to distinguish between "ships" and "units", we must assume that the rule only allows "ships" to be attacked by infiltration - for whatever reason (presumably balance).
Ref: (537.12) Infiltration
The rule specifically uses the term "ships" so only ships can be infiltrated.
Unless overruled by ADB, infiltration cannot be used against the following (this list is not exhaustive): FRD/FRX/PRD, a fighter factor, a PF, a CPF, an unassigned pod, a fighter depot, a diplomat, a prime team, an MMG, an admiral, a SWAC, a cloaked decoy, an ENG, any shipyard, a reserve counter, or a repair deport.
FEDS SENDS
As for the FRD being a ship in this context. I'm kinda suprised its in the non-ship section at all. EVERY other item listed in 756.0 is something that is obviously a non-ship (groups, bases, personalities, engineers, etc). The FRD is the one item in that group that is actually a ship in SFB for all intents and purposes.
Also, the end of that paragraph mentions SAFs, 3CPC, and 3FE's cannot be targeted, and SAFs and both of the groups are also "non-ship units", so in this case it doesn't appear to me that "ships" only means things not in the "non-ship units" block in 756, otherwise the mention of those 3 items that are also in that list are unnecessary, incomplete, and obviously in this case confusing.
Since FRDs are being ruled on, keep in mind other units like an OPB that is both a base *and* a ship, or crazy ships like the Seltorian HVS, or Paravian RMS, as well as "non-ship units" including various auxiliaries like SAV, LAV, etc, which I think in this case would be just as easy, if not easier, to target.
Ack, beat me to it. A FRD is not a PRD, not at all, and what about other auxiliary ships that are "non-ship units" but are "immune" to infiltration attacks?
Also, everything you listed is a "non-ship", so its kinda redundant. Just a reference to 756.0 is more complete and requires far less typing 
Also, while "groups" are non-ship units, I presume that since this phase has no carrier groups, all carriers would be valid targets?