But that's the retreat *decision.* As the attacker, you made the option to retreat. Then, the defender makes the decision to retreat.

The rule you're talking about is in the case where the attacker decided to stay during his ONLY retreat decision. If the defender retreats, the attacker is staying whether he wants to or not.

This in no way forces the attacker at a declined approach battle to stay in the hex. Again, you go to the normal retreat procedures.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 11:42 am: Edit

The proper retreat order from (105.IW):

5-7A1: Defending Player first option to announce retreat (302.71).
5-7A2: Attacking Player option to announce retreat (302.71).
5-7A3: Defending Player last option to announce retreat (302.71).
5-7A4: If neither player retreats, return to Phase 5 - Step 2; if both retreat, then the Defending Player conducts his retreat first (302.712).

(I use the acronym "DAD-D" to remember the retreat announcement and order.)

FEDS SENDS

By Eric Smith (Badsyntax) on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 12:08 pm: Edit

I totally understand the retreat priority. Defender gets his chance, then attacker, then defender. Regardless of who decides what when, the defender conducts his retreat first.

But the decision to retreat simply sends you to step 7 - retreat.

And during step 7, 302.712, it states that the attacker REMAINS IN THE HEX and DOES NOT HAVE A FURTHER RETREAT OPTION, if the defender left a base.

Much like the ability to retreat without pursuit when you leave a base behind.

To elaborate on what Chuck said, as he didn't go quite far enough:
5-7A5: If the Retreating Player leaves behind a base unit, then return to Phase 5 - Step 2 (action with bases) until base is destroyed, or if the other player chooses to retreat.

Note, that is *AFTER* the DAD retreat priorities, as 5-7A1 to 5-7A3 are just an *announcing* of retreat, not the act itself. Announcing retreat sends you to Step 7 - retreat.

Going through step 7, we see who must retreat is first, and under the who must retreat part we see that if the defender leaves his base behind, the attacker can no longer retreat.

So an announcement of retreat was made, the defender decided to leave his base, and retreats first, and thus the attacker MUST stay there and can NOT continue with his retreat, as 302.712 *clearly* states that.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 01:28 pm: Edit

Deleted by author to correct error.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 01:35 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

(302.712) If the Defender accepts the second opportunity to (FEDS: ANNOUNCE) retreat under (302.71), the Attacker remains in the hex and does not have a further retreat (FEDS: ANNOUNCEMENT) option (FEDS:during the current combat round). If all ships belonging to one player are destroyed, the other player still has all of his options to retreat (302.63). If both players retreat, the Defender conducts his retreat first.

---

By Eric Smith (Badsyntax) on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 01:57 pm: Edit

Ok, a ruling, thanks.

I think it is absolutely stupid that a defender can essentially double his ship count and be in 2 places at once, but under this rule they can. There is no way the attacker can attack either target without facing all of the defender's forces.

And somehow, even though hexes are 500pc across, and systems far less so, a defender can't do the same thing at their own capital, nor 2 hexes that are adjacent and don't happen to be supply points.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 02:29 pm: Edit

Request that this discussion be move to the F&E General Discussions topic to keep this topic clear for question and answers.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 02:47 pm: Edit

431.37 Accelerated Production.

Does this rule let you build a unit before its YIS date?

And if not, what does the text "No Early Variants" mean in the SITs if not prevention of this particular rule?

And does accelerated production allow you to convert, say a DN to a CVA, on the turn before the CVA is set to be produced (of course using this turns fighters and EP)?

---

Quote:

(433.3) DATES AVAILABLE FOR CONVERSIONS
All ships have an availability date on the Ship Information Table and cannot be produced prior to this date; rule (431.37) does not create an exception.

---

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 03:40 pm: Edit

Q502.93: If a single ship scout carrier in the free scout position sends its fighter squadron to the line as an independent squadron, and that squadron is the 4th Federation squadron in the battle force with the Third Way in effect, does that squadron count against command limits?

FEDS RULING: By definition in (308.533) a scout carrier in the free scout position can send its non-hybrid fighters as an independent squadron (302.35) and therefore can be used as the fourth independent Federation squadron under The Third Way. There are only three ways to send an independent squadron to participate in a battle and be used in The Third Way:

1. From a carrier or base in an adjacent hex
2. From a carrier in the support echelon (including bases sending fighters forward in a approach/multi-system battle)
3. From a scout carrier in the free scout position

By Andrew Bruno (Admeeral) on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 07:47 pm: Edit

Q(541.11) states that initial ENG units are activated on the first turn an empire is actually at war. The OOB has the initial ENG listed w/ at start forces for convenience. Does it just pop up for an inactive empire when invaded? Or must the newly activated empire wait for their first production phase to activate it?

Engineer regiments are activated during the Production Phase of any turn in which an empire is at war.

FEDS SENDS

By Andrew Bruno (Admeeral) on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 08:12 pm: Edit

Q(450.13) In three parts-
Can Minor Shipyards be built at a captured major planet?
At a SB in captured territory?
At a major planet or SB in Annexed territory?

By Eric Smith (Badsyntax) on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 08:59 pm: Edit

Some easier questions:

Does "unbuilt variant" in the SITs have any rule counterpart, or is it simply a textual note irrelevant to the game itself?
FEDS: It means it was not historically built. Some players don't allow these in their games.

The ISC can build minor shipyards, and can I assume that a CL is their "CW" and their DD is their "DW" for purposes of the minor shipyards?
FEDS: See page 5 of the ISC War rulebook.

Can a HDW be in a gunline? If so, are they limited to 3 alongside NDDs, or can all 6 ships of a gunline be HDWs and their variants?
FEDS: HDWs and HWXs cannot be in a gunline as the are treated as SC3 units and the SIT lists them as such.

And a question on a question. I asked a few questions on 16JAN @ 1215 that haven't been addressed yet, any way to mark messages as "researching" or "we are ignoring you until you go away" so we know they aren't just forgotten?
FEDS: ...FEAR has been busy and I sometimes answer to cover for him but sometime I miss an item when they get buried in player commentary. It is always best to lead with the reference and question item followed by additional supporting information.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 12:51 am: Edit

The update to (450.12) in ISC War lists the CL, CS, and CW for the light cruiser entry, and the DD, DW, and NDD for the destroyer track.

(The likes of the war cruiser and war destroyer are built only once the Andromedan invasion breaks out, so weren't included in ISC War. They, along with "system" ships like the NDD, will presumably have to wait until Andro War is up for development.)

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 03:59 am: Edit

Q(450.13) In three parts-

Can Minor Shipyards be built at a captured major planet?
At a SB in captured territory?
At a major planet or SB in Annexed territory?

---

Quote:

(450.13) Location: Minor shipyards can be built at any
major planet or at any starbase of the owning player not in
the capital hex, even in an inactive fleet area. Smaller
planets and bases cannot support these facilities. They
cannot be built in foreign territory.

---

By Andrew Bruno (Admeeral) on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 05:24 am: Edit

Thank you FEDS.


By Andrew Bruno (Admeeral) on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 07:47 pm:

Please clarify your reply for further reference. Your time is much appreciated.
FEDS: The newly activated empire wait for their first production phase to activate the ENG.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 05:36 am: Edit

Now, about those half fighter factors. Can they be used in the calculation to determine damage done during battle and no longer "ignored"? Also, since we can track fractions, what about tracking half damage due to SIDS?
FEDS: Since this is a game design question I can only refer this to ADB.

Can a blockade runner that decides to end its turn in the hex it targeted, be intercepted as any normal raid on a particular hex (nearby ships reacting on it, including free police ships)?
FEDS: Yes: (320.54) Interception: A ship conducting a blockade run can be intercepted (one time of the enemy player's choosing in the entire run) in any hex of its path by the ships in that hex using the procedure to intercept a cloaked unit (314.246)…

On the same note, just for clarification I think, does that blockade runner then block supply and other paths for the rest of the turn? Seems kinda silly to think a blockade runner can block supply for a whole fleet in friendly space, and open to some serious hammering for newly cut-off fleets on the offense.
FEDS: Just because a blockade runner ends its movement at a destination hex does not mean it is “removed” from the raid pool. It must properly wait until the player’s next turn to be removed from the “raid pool” status in step 3A-1A to remove it from the Raid Pool. During this time it cannot open or block supply or retrograde paths, it cannot use operational, reaction, strategic or retrograde movement; if attacked it may retreat. (The raid movement exhausted its maneuver status.)

And finally, what determines "friendly hex" when it comes to a blockade runner targets? Surely the same race, but what if it is conquered territory?
FEDS: A friendly hex is any enemy free friendly (or allied) territory hex or any hex occupied by a friendly or allied unit or any hex supporting ships of a friendly special raid.

By Andrew Bruno (Admeeral) on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 05:42 am: Edit

Q(541.34) While performing a selected mission from (541.33), is an Engineer unit able to perform any or all of the listed missions of (541.34) which simply states "In addition to the above missions:"?

I just want to be sure. Thanks!

FEDS requests FEAR assessment of this issue prior to making a ruling on this question.

By Michael Parker (Protagoras) on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 08:28 am: Edit

Chuck,

The question was about ENG not MMG. Is your ruling saying that the Corps of Engineers works just like the Marine Major General for purposes of activation first use? That ruling does make sense, but I just wanted clarification this was what you were saying!

Engineer regiments and MMGs are activated during the Production Phase of any turn in which an empire is at war.

FEDS SENDS

By Eric Smith (Badsyntax) on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 05:32 pm: Edit

Do ships that die while in a Tholian web...

Generate Salvage for the attacker?

Get a depot roll?

I think both are yes, but could find no confirmation, and it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense base on how the web's work.

---

Quote:

(439.15) Ships destroyed when trapped in a web (512.0) yield salvage to the Tholians (not their owners) if the base/planet is not captured or destroyed in that Combat Phase.

---

By Andrew Bruno (Admeeral) on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 06:18 pm: Edit

Q(322.31) How do Tholian Pinwheels effect retreats via (302.721)?
May the rest of an allied force retreat behind the cover of a surviving Pinwheel?

---

Quote:

(302.741) BASES: If the unit left behind is a base station‡, battle station, mobile base, PDU, or starbase (or other bases and colonies in future products), a retreating force is not able to take these units with them. Such a unit, left behind after ships retreat from a Battle Hex, remains functional and forces the players to return to Step 2 of the Combat Procedure (302.2) above. Ships leaving these units behind cannot be pursued. Any “slow” units (756.1) in the battles hex remain with the base and must be in the Battle Force. If the base is destroyed, the slow units conduct their own retreat under (302.742).

(322.31) Base: The PW is treated as a base,...

(322.53) Limited base: While treated as a base...

---

By Eric Smith (Badsyntax) on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 09:56 pm: Edit

While any ship carrying a pod cannot be part of a battlegroup (315.23), what about FFT's NOT carrying a pod and just acting in a combat capacity? It seems like they should be BG capable without that pod, but the SITs don't seem to be marking them as BG capable.
FEDS: It was a decision by ADB that LTTs and TT are NOT BG/GL eligible; their mission does not support them training for primary echelon combat duty.

So, in short, FFT's can never ever be part of a BG/GL, regardless of what is carried, True?
FEDS: If units are not marked as BG eligible § on the SIT then they may not be part of a BG/GL.

By Jose R. Barreto (Jbarreto) on Saturday, February 02, 2013 - 01:27 pm: Edit

Do the Kzinti benefit from the +1 bonus listed in 318.11 when resolving an advanced raid combat via 320.34 or 320.353?

FEDS: Yes.

Note that the staff is working to fix the existing special raid rules as they are not working properly.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Sunday, February 03, 2013 - 01:17 pm: Edit

FEDS, I would like to appeal your ruling on Tholian web and depot. This appeal is to you only, if you override it then I do not request further appeal, unless you deem it wise. The subject matter is below.

---

Quote:

Do ships that die while in a Tholian web...

Generate Salvage for the attacker?

Get a depot roll?

I think both are yes, but could find no confirmation, and it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense base on how the web's work.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
(439.15) Ships destroyed when trapped in a web (512.0) yield salvage to the Tholians (not their owners) if the base/planet is not captured or destroyed in that Combat Phase.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Enemy units that are destroyed while conducting combat inside of a Tholian web do not yield salvage for the attacking player unless the attacker fails to meet the requirement of (439.15).

Enemy units that are destroyed while conducting combat inside of a Tholian web do not roll for Depot Repair as triage repair specialists (424.0) cannot immediately get to the unit in question to properly make and recover the unit in a timely fashion. However, such units will still generate salvage if the requirements of (439.15) are meet.

---

By Eric Smith (Badsyntax) on Sunday, February 03, 2013 - 01:52 pm: Edit

I actually agree with Ted, that ships that die in a web *should* get a depot roll.

However, on the same logic, I don't think that anybody should get salvage for ships destroyed in the web, as I think if they are destroyed in a web that basically means they exploded in SFB with nothing left. If a depot roll was made, the ship escaped the web when it was crippled, and thus a depot roll seems kinda logical.

Of course, if the Tholians survive, no longer giving them 50 EP or so from salvage they got before may be a pretty hurtful ruling.. Or perhaps ships that made their depot roll are captured instead if the hex is won, as they were left behind in a seriously crippled state.

By Andrew Bruno (Admeeral) on Sunday, February 03, 2013 - 02:57 pm: Edit

Ted-
Since depot rolls are made when casualties are taken, you are essentially requesting that severely crippled hulks that make a depot roll be extracted from a web battle between F&E combat rounds w/out a corresponding tow ship from the battle force of that same round. You're saying ships that make depot should get out a web for free.

In SFB, untended webs dissipate over X# of implulses which is only a few minutes of real time.