Archive through April 06, 2013
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Federation & Empire: F&E COMPUTER PROJECTS:
F&E Computer Development:
Archive through April 06, 2013
If I did I totally don't remember. I was OPFOR, so aside from the Specter missions I constantly volunteered for I didn't deal with the OC's much (I think I still have my green key, we didn't need OCs). I was there from Feb96 to Aug97 and was the Regimental Automation Officer (as an E4) for the 11th ACR at the time.
I went back in right after 9/11, and was stationed at NTC from Dec01 to Jan05 before getting out on disability the same month my unit got deployed just south of Baghdad.
The huge battles in the 90s were a blast. Hundreds of tanks flying through the desert, A10s flying through the mountains, helicopters all over, and we as opfor got to go home most nights.
After 911 tho, it changed completely. They sent us out for a week or so at a time, to live in these train cars and pretend to be civilians. Thing is, when Bluefor wasn't around all we did was sit around and BBQ. We went out in civilian clothes, had access to some civilian cars, and staged riots and stuff occasionally went rogue and had BlueFor come into town shooting (that was fun, at least until after they had a tour or two, as they improved a LOT).
Oh, and usually when I was in the field, I was in E Trp or H Co for 2/11 ACR, as I was a grunt/11B. They sent me up to S3 before I got out tho, where I did training/schools as I wasn't really able to do grunt stuff anymore.
Well, that was around the same time as I visited him, it was the spring of 1997 between rotations.
He, my brother, had all kinds of stories about what the OCs would do on off hours. He took me back to a spot in the desert that you could barely get a hummv through and showed me a huge area, like an amphitheater, that they would gather when not working and BBQ.
I really "ate up" his career in the Army as I was unable to do so due to medical disqualification upon trying to enter service.
I loved 10% of my time in the army, was ok with 10%, and the other 80% was horrible. I still miss the 20%, daily, and have to tell myself, daily, how bad that other 80% was 
Back to DFE.
First, a quick test on Ken's machine determine something nasy.
First, I was using a 3rd party component to make viewing counters easier. That component is like 5mb, requires special work, gains me little, and it has now been removed. I am going to make it work in another way, even if I have to create it from scratch. So, significant delay of at least a week as I have to find a large chunk of time to rewrite that component, and need to be motivated to do the un-fun task. I will look for an open source implementation though, but haven't had any luck yet.
Second, and related to the first. I may end up having to completely change the way images are stored. Right now each unit type, like Fed CA, creates and stores its counters front and back in memory, displayed as necessary, and changed if captured. I may end up having to load these into a windows control to view on the above mentioned tray list. This could be kinda cumbersome, or easy, not sure which yet.
And finally, haven't been very productive this week due to that stuff, and some SIT updates. Plus 3 nights where I couldn't stay awake, and tonight where the wife and I watched Avengers in our back yard with a projector displaying the moving on a wall (celebration of our first day of 80+ here in Dallas).
Plus, my F&E CB game is back on, so that sucks up a considerable amount of time, so it'll delay development a bit depending on my opponents time.
After playing with conversion costs (see my proposal in the F&E proposal forums) I think I may have to look into ship conversions a bit more, and write code to handle converting a ship into another race (like hydran hybrids). I'll have to redo factors in addition to the colors, and it shouldn't be too hard, but there may be some wonky scenarios pop up.
Minor update.
I removed the 3rd party control, and there are currently no dependencies for DFE other than .NET, which all of you should always have the latest (you should run all patches as soon as they are released). Not quite as pretty, and I still have a few minor bumps, but it works.
For trays, I can dynamically populate my image list as the tray is shown, it workes really good with 100 ship fleets, so that didn't end up being a problem.
Spent a lot of time working on the SIT database (changes not yet online, sorry). I went through every SFB product so F&E ships would also have their SFB product, not just a rule #. I didn't go through all the CL's yet tho.
I played around with formulas quite a bit to try to get a formula that works, that matches published stats with at least 90% accuracy. However, there are always some glaring exceptions. For example, currently my formula generates a 20 for the Fed BB, 10 for the DN, 11 for the DN+, 12 for the DNG, and 14 for the DNH. However, I only get 8 for the CC+, and 7 for the CAR+. I also get 7 for the CL+, 7 for the NCL+, but only 5 for the DD (and the DDM, with 2 less photons). I basically take the max alpha strike damage to the best arc, at speed 8, multiplied by the total power required for that alpha strike and movement divided by the total power available. If I don't include the power thing, a DD has the same firepower as a CAR+. Now granted, attack factors aren't just the amount of damage they do, but this is getting pretty close. I'm fiddled with drone damage a lot, just not sure how much they should be counted for. A Ph1 is 6.5, a Ph2 5.5, a Ph3 3.8333, a PhG is 15.332, a Photon 16, but a drone??? I've been using 5 per rate of fire, with E/F/G racks half that, and C racks 50% more, just not 100% sure on it yet. The Mæsron counters have the newly calculated factors on them, the others use a slightly older method.
I also went through and made ship silhouettes for the Drex, Chlorophon, Koligahr, Mæsron, Probr, Trobrin, and Vari. I then created their counters and need to make a few color changes to make the counters work better. The Drex for example I used gray when creating, but with a gray counter, well, they don't look so great. I'll try to fix this and knock out a few more races tonight. I know this isn't at all necessary for DFE, but empty counters annoyed me New Counters, with the LMC ones too
I'll try to get back to coding soon as I mentally am in the mood again. Loading/Saving and Cut/Paste is easy, the holdup is the counter moving code. Here is my ugly "todo" list on that before I can get going on the better part. This is the biggest speedbump I'm pretty sure I'll face with the whole thing. Soon as this is done, the rest will fall together *really* fast.
'When dragging icons, they need to be placed in the hex they are over, not the hex the mouse is over
'Right click drag only works when dragged from left to bottom, not right to top, and doesn't work correctly at zooms
'selected units not showing a graphic for being selected
'Shift-Click doesn't allow selection of multiple units
'Alt-Click doesn't allow removing of a selected unit from queue
'Highlight hex needs to redraw units too, to avoid them being overwritten
'When I zoom in, the initial band is not scaled
'The drag/drop band is from the lower right, and it needs to be from the center (it is dropped correctly)
'Units need to draw with their center point the middle, now they are offset a bit when initial location is deteremined
'Units are not keeping their "formation" when dragged around (irrelevant yet, as I don't have multiple unit selection working)
'When I zoom in with the keyboard, I need to update the zoom menu
'When I zoom out, when icons get too big for hex they need scaled down
'Icons need to draw AFTER all else, including all lines
'cut/paste units on map, or between trays
'load/save current locations
If I may say that putting effort in anything Omega F&E should be of the of the lowest priority as there is going to be very little return in terms of player base and actual usage. Putting so much effort to create something that will be used by so few is in my opinion not worth the effort. However, getting a gaming system that makes it easier to play the game for 98% of the player base does rank as the highest priority.
Some of the Mæsron hulls seem to be a little strong attack factor-wise; the VBR in particular seems to be quite high for a destroyer-sized hull. (But then, that ship is technically not a "Mæsron" design, since the Vulpa only started fielding it after they had made their break with the Alliance.)
Have you considered adding in the FRA as a "baseline" faction? Given their degree of overlap with the Federation, any attack or defence factors generated for their "new" ships might help set the appropriate pace for their new neighbours.
I am with Chuck on this, there aren't any rules even playtest ones for Omega or LMC empires. I think it would be better to get the main general war Alphas done and the game working great and no bugs before adding the weird empires that aren't in F&E yet. Unless there is some programming reason that it is easier for you to do them now, and change them latter when they become more official.
Another thought is to set this up to be able to do Early Beginnings scenarios, as they seem to be pretty popular and they have established rules and I imagine quite a bit of playtesting has already been done.
Yes, I totally agree, it is a complete waste of time to do *anything* omega (though I have written about 90% of the LMC/Alpha/Andro rules but haven't relased them as I got bored) at this point.
However, I have to do something to stay interested in F&E or I'll drift off to something else that I think people have more interest in.
The VBR has 3*TG's, 4*PW1s, and 4*PW3s that can all fire to the front, plus 2 TM's. The DD has only 2*TG's and none of the PW3s face to the front, plus more hull and power to use the weaponry. However, those are old calculations as I haven't configured any race but the Feds very well, so the numbers even by my guess could be off. It isn't like I make any of these counters manually, I have the numbers in a database, the little silhouettes are files, I then merge them and create both sides of counters dynamically, so updating these is just a matter of changing the #s in the database and rerunning my counter creation utility.
Kinda tired as its Monday, and I always stay up too late, so not sure if I'll get anything good done today, but I'll try to get that movement knocked out soon, as once its done everything else I can think of is much much easier in comparison. Well, not *everything*, making an economy form on the computer that *looks* good is a pain... making it is easy, but its a lot of little blanks and I hate just popping up with a big excel view sorta thing.
Nice work so far. The effort is well appreciated.
OK.
I am going to write this here as an FYI to anyone who gives a dang or not. This is as good a topic here as any. Maybe some good will come of it. At the moment, I am very annoyed. Let me tell you why.
I am a wargamer. I have always loved wargames. I dig military history. I'm a competitor. One of my favorite genre of books is "What If" scenarios. I'm a thinker, a worker, a stubborn ass, a friend, a family man, and I pay my bills. What I am not, is a computer programmer. But that doesn't usually matter too much.
I do what I have to do to get on with life and my responsibilities and hopefully each day is a little better than the last for me and those that care about or depend on me. But even when I am working, I always look forward to playing. I'm a gamer. Gaming is something I like to do with my time. Even just thinking about scenarios keeps my brain active and happy. I like the challenge- and who doesn't enjoy comraderie? (At least sometimes...)
I also like popcorn. I think popcorn is best when shared. Like at a movie. But, going to a theater with friends and/or family to enjoy an entertainment experience and popcorn can get pretty expensive, which leads to more working and less time for movies and popcorn and/or wargaming. That is why I also like microwaves.
Ahhh, microwaves! They are so cool. I can have my friends and family over to my home. We can have an entertainment experience. We can all have popcorn! I don't have to know exactly how a microwave works, I just know it does what it does- kind of like maulers. Just throw my bag of corn in there and hit the "Popcorn" button. Then, *DING!*. Out comes that fluffy, aromatic, and tasty goodness! Ahhhh. The last thing on the checklist for the adventure to enjoyment... A good time had by all.
Which brings me back to why I'm annoyed. I'm a wargamer. I dig F&E. I played "Fleet" for years and years but the last few, at least, I've been more into F&E. There are few I know who still play and fewer mediums to play on. Sure, there's face to face but kids, cats, and wives (let alone space or schedules) don't always allow that option. Then there is the internet- now you can PBEM! Very clean. Doesn't take up too much space. And hopefully, always saved just like the last time you left it! Players from all over the world!! The possibilities are endless...
...unless there's no easy "Popcorn" button.
WHERE THE HECK IS THE G'OL DERNED "POPCORN" BUTTON FOR CYBERBOARD?!! WHY THE HECK DO I HAVE TO CHASE CYBERBOARD SO HARD?!?! I JUST WANT TO POINT AND SHOOT AND LOOK AT THE MAP AND TALK SMACK TO THE POOR SOUL I'M GONNA THRASH! I don't know how a microwave works, i just want to make popcorn!! GAAAAHH!!
If anyone knows a step by step of how to load, locate, and navigate F&E scenarios via CB, I would be grateful to hear it.
Been a long day, maybe I'll just play left4dead.
*This rant brought to you by: "Fumble Fimgers of America"*
[EDIT: BUI & Shame]
Take a look at Eric's tool.
"There are few I know who still play and fewer mediums to play on. Sure, there's face to face but kids, cats, and wives (let alone space or schedules) don't always allow that option."
I oh so feel your pain..... My wargames sit gathering dust upon the headstone of my youth.
And then I found VASSAL. I've never been able to get Cyberboard to actually work. And with all them vassal modules i can plummet backwards into the wasted years of my teenage/twenty something life.
I only wish "the Boss" (not springsteen) would allow SFB onto vassal...
oh well
Craig-
>"My wargames sit gathering dust upon the headstone of my youth."<
That made me chuckle. About 10 years ago I was finally able to complete my collection of the entire WWII Europa series. Ironically, once I got everything, it dawned on me that I had no one to play and nowhere to play it. Still I blow off the dust and just look at the maps and sheets and sheets of unpunched counters from time to time and contemplate strategeries...
Funny thing, tho- that's kind of enough most times.
Coincidently, my Europa stuff is right above my fleet stuff which has even more dust. I still have one local buddy (who now has 3 kids himself) who I always talk to about getting a tournament cruiser battle going at some future date when our schedules mesh. Been the same conversation for about 10 years now...
Meh! Whatcanyado?
"Meh! Whatcanyado?"
Barricade yourself in a room for a week or so until you're completely played out.
Kidnap a gamer friend if necessary or if not, you might even be able to play by phone...
"I'm moving this stack of ships to *boop boop* 'call lost'"
I will say that looking at and thinking about them dusty old games while satisfying, begins to feel like you're looking at the menu of a restaurant where you'll never eat.
:'(
Minor update. Due to a major demotivational F&E event my DFE development time dropped to well under 5% of what it was as during the last update. At this point I can select units, move them around, drag boxes over them and move them, at any zoom level. Most of the hard stuff is done (geometry stuff) now. I need to change the way some of the keyboard stuff is handled, like right now the right button + drag selects stuff, and it needs to be left button, plus moving things relative to where they were when selected instead of just under the last thing selected. This stuff is easier than figuring out where to place things, as I have to deal with all sorts of scalings and map offsets that are my nemesis.
I also did up unit silhouettes for all races in all galaxies except the Branthadon and Borak... oh, and no simulators, but all other races have silhouettes now. Those dragons are simply beyond my capability, and I could really use some help on them. There are a few unique ships here and there missing too, but I'll get to them eventually.
Added a few units I missed to my database, like the BHAG from SSJ#1, though it'd be interesting to see one in a game, I can't imagine somebody doing it.
Still need to update my online SIT, but I'm not sure how much use it is at this point. Some people occasionally mention it, but it isn't getting a lot of use. Maybe I need to add a bit more data on there, but I think it won't have any wide adoption unless ADB decides to move forward with it, and if they don't it may just go away without a fuss.
I'd really like to open a discussion of adding extreme detail to the game (refits, FOW, individual ground bases, etc), more SFB like ship capabilities (maulers, escorts, scouts, etc), and the LMC/Omega and hypothetical stuff, but I don't think F&E players would be receptive to that in any way.
Based on my motivational level, it'll probably be a few weeks before the next update when I talk about saving/loading, which is the last part before an alpha, though with such low motivation and very little apparent interest the time could be longer. I will say if I ever stop completely, I will post something here to let folks know, and maybe somebody could pick up where I left off since I am already farther than anybody else has been.
Eric - my thought is that there is already too much extreme detail, and adding more would not be effective from a game play standpoint. Sure, having refits would be interesting - but with the granularity of whole numbers, adding refits adds color and hassle without changing the game.
I'd prefer a discussion on the details that should be simplified and streamlined to make the game more playable (i.e. faster) and more fun...
Eric,
So, now perhaps you can see why your initial outpouring of working on computer F&E wasn't meant with much enthusiasm. You thought that it was a lack of interest, and at the time I told you that it wasn't a lack of interest, it was a lack of belief. There have been so many times that someone has enthusiastically said that they are working on it only to lose gas and walk away.
In other words, a lot of us have seen this movie before.
Don't misunderstand - you should do what makes you happy. But now you may be able to grasp the cynicism you were greeted with. You aren't the first person to go through a major demotivational event.
Of course, I'd be happy to see you remotivated as Ted has said kind words about the work you have done so far.
Indeed, I do have high praise for Eric's computer work, especially the die roller.
I would like to try that die roller.
Eric's work is great.
Peter: This isn't going to be a popular post but I would argue that it is the lack of direction on the part of ADB which explains why we don't have a computer F&E game. Rightly, or wrongly, ADB treats the computer game market as very secondary business at best. ADB views its primary business as selling paper products/games in a world where paper is disappearing. Ebooks at Amazon now outsell all other paper books combined. I don't know the stats on the Wargame or board game market but I would guess that it has been contracting, perhaps radically, for the last 10 years or so.
There is good news though, indie computer games are making a comeback largely due to mobile devices and easy game design technology. Just take a look the success Unity3D and projects like Eugen's Wargame: European Escalation have had. If there is a market for the stuff that Matrix Games produces, especially very complex games like War in the Pacific with modest graphics, then there is a market for a F&E or SFB game. Arguably SFC was the most successful game in the history of Star Trek games. I also don't think the graphics have to be phenomenal either, especially if it targets the right platforms.
The challenge is ADB is going to have to take some risk: It's going to cost money, it will require that a majority of rules are implemented in the program, it may mean that a balance between usability and piracy risk is found, it may mean a reduction in paper product sales, heck it may even mean that the company has to change from a board game development company to a multimedia game development company.
SVC is a smart guy and not bad at running a business. I have tremendous respect anyone who can run a successful business for 20+ years in a industry like this with the license limitations ADB has. I also suspect that ADB has thought about a majority of what I posted before. To ADB's credit it has embraced the future with e23 but new Captain's Log's and a majority of SFB/F&E modules still aren't available. Furthermore, ADB has also embraced social media, but seemingly forgotten the lessons that drove the social media revolution as a majority of the fan sites that kept the SFB universe alive in the TFB/ADB transition are now gone.
John:
My understanding is that one of the major reasons ADB hasn't embraced computer games is that there are "issues" with the IP licensing which could cause them to lose said license if they actually were to publish full-on computer games linked to the SFB universe.
Not to mention real computer games are so "flash-in-the pan" type income. he big risk is that it is very labor intensive (as we can all clearly see) and for little or no gain. F&E will never be a game that sells to hundreds of thousands or millions of people. The no one is expecting it and to market it the right way as Jason eluded to would take you teetering down the road of "hey please come and take my license away". There is also a factor of "the next edition of the game". Most video games worth their salt have upgrades/updates/next editions where they 'improve' the game. Most often because of technology advancements. What John proposes is a completely separate (and risky) division in the company. It seems ADB has already said its peace (a number of times) on why it has not ventured down this road.
Eric has done a great job on the software to date.
I want to use the software to be able to run a large campaign game so once the ability to load and save the game this will be a really useful tool for running games.
I use the web site to do research and it is very helpful.
Lawrence,
I will say that you did a great job with Cyberboard. I'm amazed at how well it's put together and it does allow people to play over the net even if it's not a fully functional program like what Eric was working on.
The only thing is in the game box you put together, there are no extra Lyran Auxiliary carriers so I stole them from the ISC.