Comment to Jeffery Tiel's questions: While you cannot sell ships to other empires without an enabling rule, you can use combined arms to produce good results. In other words, use a mixed Romulan, Klingon, and Lyran fleet to have the best units of each empire (assuming it's a late enough turn). All you have to do is make sure that the "foreign" units are in supply. There's a variety of ways to do that, from supporting homeless ships to expeditionary fleets to a chain of mobile bases to convoys to supply tugs. Each has their own rules.

There are three major limitations to combined arms. The first is that foreign escorts cannot be used with a native carrier (i.e., no Lyran DWE with a Klingon D7V). The second is that the fighters of one empire may not function on a foreign carrier (though Klingon and Lyran fighters *can* serve on each other's carriers). The third is that half of the ships of a battle force have to be of the same empire as the command ship.

Other than that, it's like a salad bar. Take what you like, and leave the rest!

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Monday, May 26, 2014 - 08:38 pm: Edit

Sorry Ted, turn 11 seems to be the best you can do. While you retained possession of the planet the first turn of recovery without a hospital ship would be completed on turn 10, two turns completed on turn 10 with a hospital ship in (105.IW) 1A3A. Then 2 more turns on turn 10 that are completed on turn 11. (508.25) requires 4 complete turns.

The planet was devastated or liberated in phase 5 of a given turn. One turn is technically phase 5 to phase 5. Because planetary income is calculated in 1C. This is before Phase 5. Thus the extra delay in getting full value. Thus the X+5 for normal recovery, and X+3 for accelerated recovery unless the planet is an alliance planet devastated or liberated in the coalition half of a given turn the it is X+4 or with 2 accelerated turns X+2.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Monday, May 26, 2014 - 10:01 pm: Edit

Ted, there is also the fact that the money is collected first then spent so that you would have already collected income from the planet on Turn #10 before being able utilize the hospital ship...

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, May 26, 2014 - 10:22 pm: Edit

Thomas and Stuart, that makes a lot of sense. I already suspected as much, but those are pretty solid rationales.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, June 08, 2014 - 02:54 pm: Edit

Jimi wrote:
>>Game situation. the Klinks own NZ planet 1506. If they react off the planet to help defend BATS at 1507 per rule 508.16 that should put an RDU on that NZ planet. Can the Kzinti's then do a fighting retreat (attacking the RDU) over NZ planet 1506 to then retreat to 1505?>>

Assuming you are following all other retreat priorities, yes. As an RDU isn't a "unit", I'm pretty sure you don't even need use a fighting retreat (as if it was a fighting retreat, you couldn't attack the planet anyway) or set up a way to make it the closest to a supply point.

By Jimi LaForm (Jlaform) on Sunday, June 08, 2014 - 03:48 pm: Edit

the point is that I wanted to do a fighting retreat so that I could then bounce off the planet and then retreat another hex closer to the capital for retrograde purposes.

I just wanted to make sure that I can fighting retreat over an RDU (I don't presently have any ships attacking that point) and then retreat further.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, June 08, 2014 - 04:04 pm: Edit

I think you can just regularly retreat onto the RDU, kill it, and then retreat again. I don't think an RDU has any impact on fighting retreat (as it is not a unit).

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 - 02:49 pm: Edit

Ted, is your uncrip+crip+crip carrier group sending fighters forward?

I believe that is the only way the uncrippled carrier could be targeted, in my interpretation.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 - 03:11 pm: Edit

Alan, no. It is merely "sitting" at Earth and the cripples being attackable solely under 511.753.

Ironically the CV and its escorts would be better defended in the support echelon!

My personal opinion is that this rule doesn't make sense. Why at a capital only? Why can't the fleet screen the cripples like they do at every single other battle location? Why would the cripples feel compelled to hang around the capital planet instead of being screened by the uncrippled ships? It's not like their back is against the wall.

But. It is the rule, so there you are.

BTW: I agree. IMHO the carrier group is not attackable under 511.753 so long as at least one unit in the group remains uncrippled.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 - 03:12 pm: Edit

As far as I know, the only times an escorted carrier can be targeted while ignoring its escorts is if it is a stasis ship actually using its stasis field generator or if its escorts have all been frozen by a unit using a stasis field generator.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 - 03:32 pm: Edit

Richard, that isn't the question. The attempt is made to attack the entire CV group, which includes an uncrippled CV as well as crippled escorts, using 511.753.

By Andrew Bruno (Admeeril) on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 - 04:11 pm: Edit

Yuck. That is decidedly an unpleasant rule and a good question, Ted. If it stands that you can direct on whole groups with crippled members, it means death for unpacked CVE groups acting as FCRs. And if you can direct at 2:1, why couldn't you add a Mauler bonus? *urp!*

It's disgusting to think that a crippled PAL might be safer in open space with only a crippled AH as company against 100 enemy ships than it would be at Hydrax with 16 PDUs, a SB, and 50 ships with 150 fighters. Not cool.

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 - 05:07 pm: Edit

Is it the intent to bend the cripples at the capital rule until it breaks? Because cripples in a carrier group are well covered by the carrier rules, and the carrier is not crippled in your example. This smacks of trying to rewrite the existing rules - nothing in the capital rule says an uncrippled carrier completely outside the battleforce can be targeted by directed damage. Escorting is designed to protect the carrier, not increase its risk - this is a lol question. Sounds like a rules lawyer at work, no offense intended.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 - 07:26 pm: Edit

Alan, my opponent (Gary) and I have already agreed the most reasonable interpretation is that the group may not be attacked.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 - 10:32 pm: Edit

Comment on Q531.44:

POL fighters are subject to other restrictions, such as for example they cannot be transferred to other ships (other than other PVs). Thus, it stands to reason they are under other police restrictions.

However, the rules do not say this. Thus, it stands to reason that PV fighters may make fighter strikes outside of original friendly territory.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 12:53 pm: Edit

Comment on Jimi LaForm's question:

I believe there has already been a ruling on this subject. Yes: A PT can add additional bonus to a supported G attack. I think is possible to theoretically get a +5 bonus (+2 VBIR, +1 supporting G, +1 PT, +1 MMG).

However, the *total net* bonus to the die roll will be limited to +2, by operation of written rule IIRC. Thus, any bonus over +2 is only going to help you overcome penalties to the roll (such as -1 for a defending G, and up to -2 for VBIR).

By Jimi LaForm (Jlaform) on Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 01:04 pm: Edit

ohhhh, never knew that there was a limit of +2. Now to await something from FEAR. Thanks for the headsup on that though.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 02:50 pm: Edit

If there is a ruling already, are you appealing it? Someone should find that ruling if so.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 03:13 pm: Edit

I'm pretty sure I asked a similar question a few years ago when Paul Howard tried a trick on me to get +3 to the roll and I objected - and I'm pretty sure FEAR sided with Paul.

But I could be wrong. However, I'm not going to go digging for a ruling - too time intensive.

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 03:17 pm: Edit

Don't think it needs a ruling, it's right in 521.35:

---

Quote:

All modifiers are cumulative and apply to a second (and subsequent) die roll if the previous die roll was a 12. The maximum modifier cannot exceed +2 or be less than -2.

---

By Jimi LaForm (Jlaform) on Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 06:20 pm: Edit

Richard - No I'm not appealing the given answer, I just meant that as I hadn't see the min/max in print that I'd await his actual ruling, but thanks to Rob's giving the ruling # I don't have to wait for him at all. Thanks Rob.

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 09:38 pm: Edit

Your welcome Jimi.

By Pete DiMitri (Petercool) on Wednesday, June 18, 2014 - 05:55 am: Edit

That's Rob - he solves problems and then moves on.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, July 03, 2014 - 09:46 am: Edit

Jeff wrote:
>>In the latter years of the General War, the Tholians briefly come out of the Holdfast in support of the Alliance. But they just as quickly rush back in to confront the Seltorians. Are Coalition forces permitted to be inside Tholian space on or after the Seltorian arrival date?>>

The Coalition can freely attack the Tholians at any point they want, including after the "Seltorians" attack them (see the last line of the special section on late war Tholian involvement). I can't imagine that it would be a remotely good idea, however, as the Tholians will have had 20 turns of PWC and then 7 or so turns of full war production.

If the Coalition are going to attack the Tholians, they are going to do so on T10 or never.

>> If not, then if Tholian space were conquered prior to the date, do we assume the Seltorians never arrive?>>

Yes. They recently published proto-playtest Seltorian rules. I'm sure that in whatever expansion they are published in will have rules for what actually happens with Seltorians if and when they show up. In the current F+E rules set, however, they are just an abstract menace.

>> If Coalition forces are permitted to be in Tholian space on or after that date, then are Seltorian forces ignored within the F&E system even though they may also be present?>>

Yep. As they don't exist. If, for whatever reason, Tholian space is filled with Klingons when the Seltorians show up on turn 28 or whatever, the Seltorians knock on the door, the Klingons answer, the Seltorians are confused, and they just move on to the next galaxy.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, July 03, 2014 - 04:41 pm: Edit

>>Are coalition forces permitted in Tholian space after the Seltorians arrive?>>

Yes. There is nothing preventing the Klingons from invading the Tholians after the "Seltorians" arrive.