| By chris upson (Misanthropope) on Saturday, November 22, 2014 - 12:13 pm: Edit |
Chuck (302.53) ATTRITION UNITS: A player using Directed Damage against a unit is not required to destroy its fighters or PFs [see (501.7) and (502.45)]. However, any fighters/PFs remaining at the end of a Combat Round when their support unit is destroyed or crippled must be transferred [see (501.6) and (502.44)] to other units able to carry them (in the same hex), or they can be used to satisfy further damage requirements in that Combat Round. Exception: PFs may transfer (502.44) to a base/tender in an adjacent hex (arriving at the end of the Combat Phase). Fighters and PFs become “minus points” (308.2) only if transfer is impossible. In effect, it is “transfer or die” at the end of EACH Combat Round.
I know this is late into the discussion, but has the last sentence of 308.2 been overturned at some point? Because carriers and auxiliaries do not ever produce involuntary minus points under the rules as originally written.
FEDS: There is nothing to overturn as (302.53) and my Q&A ruling of April 14, 2013 - 12:16 pm still applies unless overruled by ADB:
An attrition support unit is defined as a:
Quote:
Carrier with fighters;
PFT with PFs;
Base with fighters/PFs;
PDU with fighters/PFs
SCS-like unit with fighters and PFs
| By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Sunday, November 23, 2014 - 07:01 pm: Edit |
(537.2) Can a Tug assigned mission W (509.1-W) that has rescued an allowable unit under (537.2) during the owner's phasing half of a turn also perform the same mission, should it be in combat in the owner's non-phasing portion of the turn?
There is no enabling rule that permits a rescue tug to PERFORM the mission twice in a turn cycle. However, if the tug was assigned the rescue mission during the phasing player turn but did NOT perform any rescue tug actions during that phasing turn then said tug may be used in the following non-phasing turn as a rescue tug.
FEDS SENDS
| By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, November 25, 2014 - 07:19 pm: Edit |
Q(540.253) Request for clarification of directly conflicting rulings. This one should be easy, so favor of quick reply is requested.
This September's Hailing Frequencies listed the following ruling for the question of when and how EPs are available for formerly neutral planets swayed by diplomacy, when the empire is not yet at war with the future belligerent.
http://www.federationcommander.com/Newsletter/September-2014/index.html
I *think* this is the older ruling, but somehow it got into Hailing Frequncies instead of the more current ruling.
The current ruling for CL48 (earlier this same year) is as follows (relevant posts cited):
Quote:
By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 - 11:13 am: Edit
....
Q: Regarding rule (540.253): Do neutral planets which are allied with an empire (for example, Sherman’s Planet in 1910) accumulate economic points when not at war? My opinion is that they don’t accumulate economic points, but my opponent says that they do. There are conflicting rules on this, such as:
"(540.15) PEACETIME: Diplomatic teams function for empires at peace, so the Federation and Gorns could each use one of their teams to negotiate trade deals with each other and raise some money that could be spent during the pre-war period or saved for later."
"(540.2) [Last line]...Any EPs generated by diplomatic teams may be spent by the owning empire even if at peace."
"(540.251) [Extracted] ...Note that if the planet joins your empire, it is treated as a part of the adjoining fleet and if that fleet is inactive, the new planet is in an inactive fleet area, but defenses can still be added to the planet and it produces income for the gaining empire..."
A: Once diplomats persuade a neutral planet to join their empire the income of the new planet is treated as "normal" income for that empire under the economic conditions for that empire; it is in no way considered "diplomatic" income.
And this from Dec. 27, 2013:
By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 05:06 pm: Edit
So I read the ruling.
Is it saying what I think it is? It seems to say that the EPs the neutral generates gets sent to the general treasury.
Is that correct?
FEDS: Yes -- under the conditions of the rules and stipulations cited in the ruling.
Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 08:42 pm: Edit
Rob:
Be careful with your semantics...
A neutral planet does NOT generate any income for any player empire.
A formally neutral planet, converted by diplomatic efforts, generates income in peacetime for the controlling empire as long as there is a valid strategic movement path to the joined empire's supply grid. During wartime, the converted planet is officially grafted into the joined empire's supply grid and strategic movement system under (540.253).
If a neutral zone planet joins an empire through diplomatic efforts then it is no longer a "neutral" planet unless, through counter-diplomatic efforts of (540.254), it reverts to back to a neutral status.
| By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, November 27, 2014 - 03:07 am: Edit |
FEDS spoke with ADB today and was told that for F&E rules questions that in all cases Captains' Logs are the official and authoritative document that supersedes other reporting documents including ADB's Hailing Frequency regardless of the publishing date.
In the specific case above, it appears that an older (and later superseded ruling) was inadvertently selected for the September 2014 issue of Hailing Frequencies; the CL48 rule still stands.
FEDS SENDS
| By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, November 27, 2014 - 03:20 am: Edit |
Reference - Appeal Motion: Abandonment of Tug During Assigned Supply Mission (412.23) COMBAT: If the tug is attacked, see (302.21). If the tug is forced to retreat or is destroyed, it immediately loses its status as a supply point. (302.12) RETREAT: If the Attacking Player did not oppose the withdrawal, the Defending Player may retreat some or all of his ships and there is no pursuit. Note that only ships can retreat, not non-ship units. Fighters must retreat with their carrier; PFs must retreat with their PFT; see (302.72).
FEDS finds that (412.23) is a specific rule under the Supply Tug rules:
Quote:
Unless overruled by ADB, it is ruled that under the supply tug rules (above) the supply tug player has only the two option under (412.23). Upon selection of the hex for combat resolution by the attacker, the supply tug player can:
A. Choose to remain in the hex and retain all the benefits of being a supply tug [i.e. a base-like unit that requires an approach battle and being escorted under (515.43)]. After the attacker meets the requirements of approach battle procedures the supply tug must either retreat or be included as part of the next battle force. If it fails to retreat after any non-approach battle round the supply tug must be included in the next subsequent non-pursuit battle round.
***OR***
B. Withdraw from combat under (302.1) ***or*** retreat after a legal approach combat round ***or*** retreat after a combat round where the supply tug was required to be in the battle force. In any of these cases the supply tug immediately loses its status as a supply point at that very point in the SoP.
If a supply tug that abandons its mission by retreat or withdrawl, it CANNOT be used for any other tug mission during the remainder of the current turn cycle but defaults to mission-M (standard warship); the tug player must wait until his next player turn to assign a new tug mission.
FEDS SENDS
Addition Reference items:
Quote:
(302.134) If some of the defending units retreat, they must be placed on the map in the retreat hex selected by (302.73). If the remainder of the force later retreats, it must go to the same hex even if the situation has changed during the Combat Step and a new evaluation of the retreat priorities would have required a different hex.
| By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 12:50 pm: Edit |
Q451.32:
Quote:A hospital ship can be held in the support echelon of a fleet (vulnerable to directed damage at 3:1 without maulers). They are able to attempt to "heal" dead or wounded G-factors, Admirals, Generals, Diplomatic Teams, or Prime Teams. When such a unit in the same hex as the hospital ship is destroyed-or-killed, roll one die, with 1-3 indicating that the unit cannot be helped and 4-6 meaning that the unit is restored to duty. Each hospital Ship may make one such attempt per battle round, and each hospital ship can only support combat at a single planet of a multi-planet system. As an alternative to the die roll, the hospital ship can automatically heal one "wounded" unit of the listed types per battle round.
| By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 03:06 pm: Edit |
Ref: Hospital Ship - "Healing" Requirements
The "alternative" is in reference to the die roll and not the entire process; the requirement for the hospital to be at least in the support echelon remains to automatically heal one "wounded" unit of the listed types per battle round.
As to when a listed unit is permitted to be healed, the rule language is present tense and current round. The hospital unit must make to "healing" attempt on the round that the casualty occurred, must be at the specified location of said units and be at least present in the support echelon or in the battle force.
FEDS SENDS
| By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, December 05, 2014 - 04:30 pm: Edit |
NOTE TO PLAYERS
FEDS has just answered some pending questions so please review the original question as FEDS may have answered the question within the body of your original post.
| By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Tuesday, December 09, 2014 - 01:40 pm: Edit |
Q439.17:
Are slow units destroyed in the Slow Unit Battle eligible to produce salvage?
Rules references:
439.17: "Ships lost by the pursued force in a pursuit battle do not produce salvage for either player."
302.742 (parts):
A:"The pursuing playerforms a legal non-pursuit Battle Force. This non-pursuit force can use things such as free scouts, Command Points, etc., which are not used in pursuit forces. The pursuit force, if any, can only use units taken from this Battle Force..."
B:"Remaining units from the original Battle Force not used in the pursuit force may then engage in (non-pursuit) combat with the "slow" unit(s);..."
Thanks!
Rule (302.742B) is quite clear in that the slow unit battle is NOT a pursuit battle round.
Rule (439.17) is clear that ships lost in the pursuit battle to not produce salvage.
Ruling: Unless overruled by ADB, units lost in slow unit battle do generate salvage since it is not a pursuit battle.
FEDS Rationale: Crippled starships choosing to risk using their dash/escape warp capability by disengaging via acceleration are extremely vulnerable to distruction ***IF*** they get caught and then only by a handful of pursuing ships; F&E abstracts this. On the other hand, slow units cannot escape via acceleration and are automatically caught and must fight a maximized enemy battle force for one round combat if retreat is declared.
FEDS SENDS
| By Ken Rotar (Sir_Krotar) on Wednesday, December 10, 2014 - 03:52 pm: Edit |
I have a question that came up in my game with Richard. It involves the following rule:
"(430.24) ABANDONED OCCUPATION: If the enemy occupies (sole possession) a province and voluntarily withdraws from it during his Player Turn (no friendly units are in the province), the originally owning player, provided that he controls a province adjacent to the abandoned province, receives one Economic Point from it on his following Player Turn and can re-occupy it to gain the full production on later turns. If the original owner does not have an adjacent province, no one receives the EPs for that province on the current turn."
This is a brief description of the situation: in the prior turn, I (running the Klingons) controlled the provinces of 0415, 0714, 1015, 0917, and 1118. In the current turn, I abandoned (stupidly) 0415, 0714, and 1015--and Richard (running the Hydrans) has not yet moved anything into those provinces. Also, both of us have ships in 0716. It is obvious that 0415 and 0714 become disrupted provinces for the Hydrans because he controls 0716. The question is, does 1015 also become a disrupted province for Richard, or does no one receive its income because the Hydrans do not "control a province adjacent to the abandoned province?"
According to (430.24), because the Hydrans control 0716, they receive the disrupted income from 0714. The next province down the line is 1015; with this province there is no bordering province with Richard's forces. So the question is, do the ships in province 0716, by giving the Hydrans the income of 0714, does it also give them the income of 1015, like a chain reaction?
| By Pete DiMitri (Petercool) on Wednesday, December 10, 2014 - 04:15 pm: Edit |
Chuck,
I am officially making an appeal for your ruling on slow unit pursuit based on 3 things:
1 - The fact that the slow units don't have to fight another round but do in fact retreat along with the other forces does indicate that some sort of retreat is happening.
2 - With your ruling, auxiliaries would never NOT produce salvage, giving them an ability that mobile warships do not have.
3 - Contrary to your post, Auxiliary warships CAN disengage by acceleration in SFB.
| By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, December 10, 2014 - 04:25 pm: Edit |
Question on Reserve Movement:
(203.731) states: "The moving reserve fleet could have as its objective a hex which is not a Battle Hex, but which contains enemy units which are blocking a supply path [see [411.0 and (410.22)] to friendly units in combat which otherwise would be out of supply during the ensuing combat phase."
According to (410.22), if a unit was in supply at the start of the player turn, it counts as being in supply for the purposes of combat, even if it is out of supply at the time of combat.
Question:
If a ship is in supply at the start of the turn, and then is cut off from supply during the operational movement phase, and is in combat (where it will count as being in supply, but does not have a valid supply path during the reserve movement phase), can a reserve force move to open supply to that ship via (203.731)?
| By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Wednesday, December 10, 2014 - 07:32 pm: Edit |
Ken, there would be no chaining as 715 is NOT in Hydran hands (tentacles)...
| By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, December 10, 2014 - 08:45 pm: Edit |
Are you an official Q&A answer person Stewart?
| By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, December 10, 2014 - 09:17 pm: Edit |
Stew: Please move your debate of the rule question to the Q&A Discussions topic.
Richard: Please allow the moderators to police this topic.
| By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, December 10, 2014 - 09:18 pm: Edit |
My apologies, I was wondering if I had missed some announcement in that vein.
| By Pete DiMitri (Petercool) on Thursday, December 11, 2014 - 01:43 pm: Edit |
Chuck,
I withdraw my appeal.
| By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Monday, December 15, 2014 - 08:48 pm: Edit |
Q537.17:
When a multi planet/multi system hex is captured by your opponent, how do the modifiers in 537.112 work?
For example, if 617 is captured, and there are 4 troop ships in the hex, do those troop ships have to be assigned to specific planets, or do they all "stack" to create a modifier for the entire hex? Or would they each be assigned to a specific planet, and only apply their modifiers to that planet?
The issue here is the term "location" used in the rule, as it is not defined. Is a location a planet? A system in a multi-system hex? Or is it just a hex?
Rule References:
Quote:537.112) Subtract one from the die roll for:
Each occupying IGCE or PDU on the planet,
Each occupying prime team on the planet,
Each occupying Marine Major General on the planet,
Each G factor on an occupying ship at the planet's location.
The first monitor in orbit over the planet (but not additional monitors).
Quote:(537.113) Add two to the die roll if:
The planet is the original capital planet of the race.
The planet is Hydran or Tholian (due to difficulties with the atmosphere, the occupiers are in orbit) or the occupying power is Hydran or Tholian. Note that Hydrans and Tholians have different atmospheres and would have +2 penalties against each other.
A prime team is sent by (534.233). [Admirals and generals cannot be used.]
| By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 - 01:30 am: Edit |
RP:
From above...
A. The troop ships have to be assigned to specific planets.
B. All (537.113) modifiers are additive (so +4 in the case you cited)
FEDS SENDS
| By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, December 22, 2014 - 08:41 pm: Edit |
Q449.12 - Please clarify how WYN trade works for empires other than Kzinti, Lyran, and Klingon.
The relevant rule is:
Quote:(449.12) OTHER RACES have no specific trade rights but
(other than the Orions) could send 4 EPs into the WYN
Cluster on any turn when they can send a ship able to carry
EPs into it. Note, however, that the journey would be long and
dangerous, and that since Operational Movement or Blockade
Running must be used to enter and leave the Cluster, even a
ship using Strategic Movement would take three turns to
make the trip.
| By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Monday, December 22, 2014 - 09:30 pm: Edit |
By Strat and OpMove its three turns.
T1 Strat Move to Kzin Cap
T2 OpMove into WYN Cluster
T3 OpMove out of WYN Cluster
Blockade running assumes you aren't using it for something else but is as you described. But a normal STRAT and OPMOVE round trip is 3 turns.
| By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, December 29, 2014 - 05:47 pm: Edit |
Chuck wrote (in Q+A discussion):
>>In my mind this is a straight up issue (this is not YET an official FEDS ruling):
1. Are enemy units blocking all supply paths to friendly units in combat (which are not stacked with valid friendly base) at this very moment?
2. Would the dispatch of one or more reserve fleets to one or more of the locations of blocking enemy ships open a supply path to said friendly units in combat? [Note that supply can flow through a battle hex under (411.2).]
How does this test above not meet the intent of (203.731)?>>
Any updates on this particular issue? I'm in a game where how this pans out is going to be specifically relevant fairly soon. Thanks!
| By David J Baldwin (Chiefdave) on Thursday, January 01, 2015 - 11:05 pm: Edit |
Q449.12
Seems like four moves to me.
T1 stratmov Cap to 1401
T2 Opmove 1401 to WYN
T3 Opmove WYN to 1401
T4 Stratmov 1401 to Cap
EPs come from CAP and are delivered to CAP.
| By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, January 02, 2015 - 05:35 pm: Edit |
REF: PF Production at Bases (431.23) PFs: Once PF production is authorized by (502.61), an unlimited number of PFs may be built at the capital. Each starbase can build six per turn; each battle station or PDU can build two per turn. See (502.2). Other bases can also produce PFs; see base stations‡ (444.0), sector bases‡ (452.0), stellar fortresses‡ (as yet unpublished), and X-versions‡ of bases (523.4).
This issue came up during scenario development (as this issue does not come up often but it still needs to be addressed).
Quote:
While the Capital SY, SBs, BTSs, and PDUs can build PFs as defined above, it appears that we have not defined production at other bases within their own ruleset even though they are referenced.
FEDS recommends ADB define PF production rates under (423.23) for the following bases:
Steller Fortress Bases (SFB): 8 PFs
Sector Bases (STB): 4 PFs
Base Stations (BS): 2 PFs
Colony Bases (CB): 2 PFs
Legal X-versions of bases produce 50% more than their non-X versions
FEDS further recommend that the following units CANNOT build PFs:
Mobile Bases (MB), Operational Bases (OPB), Planetary Ground Bases (PGB), and Colonies.
Please not that this is only a recommendation for ADB consideration and NOT an official FEDS ruling.
FEDS SENDS
| By Jeffrey Tiel (Platoaquinas) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 08:09 pm: Edit |
Is it correct that carriers can be escorted in the support echelon, but ground ships cannot? (521.381) says that if ground ships are placed in the battleforce, then they may be escorted. I don't see any place where it says whether if ground ships are in the support echelon whether they may or may not be escorted.
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