If one or more PDU's are added to a captured planet that currently has built upon it only a PGB, are those PDU's immediately active?

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 - 05:02 am: Edit

JT:

FEDS does not see any rule that prohibits the practice of escorting troop ships in the support echelon...

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(521.372) Ground combat ships in a battle force (whether making an assault, or supporting planetary defenders, or even in a hex without a planet) can be (but do not have to be) "escorted" in a manner that is different from "carrier escorts" (308.1). One or two ships (not more) can be assigned to escort each ground combat ship.

(521.381) The defending troop ships providing this support must be in the battle hex" but need not be in the battle force (they are in the support echelon, directed damage at 3:1), it being assumed that they deposited their troops and left the area before the attackers arrived. If they are part of the battle force, they can be escorted under (521.372) and (521.371); all provisions of those rules apply to defending troop and commando ships in the battle force.

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By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 - 06:17 am: Edit

Q:521.381

I want to first say that this rule is not the best written; it implies that the support echelon is not part of the battle force (my understanding is that the battle force includes units in the support echelon for things like flag ship limitations for battle forces with units from more than one empire).

"If they are part of the battle force, they can be escorted under (521.372) and (521.371); "

This seems to refer to troop ships that are not part of the support echelon. It seems to imply that troop ships in the support echelon cannot be escorted.

My question is: If troop ships are not 'part of the battle force, ie are part of a support echelon according to the context of this rule, then can those troops ships be escorted?'

By Jeffrey Tiel (Platoaquinas) on Thursday, January 15, 2015 - 04:09 pm: Edit

In (709.0) the Hydrans are given their initial deployment options. For first and second fleets several numbers are given. Are these specific hex numbers or the province numbers associated with those hexes? I.e., can those Hydran fleets deploy in any of those border province hexes or only the hex numbers specified in (709.0)?

And second, is the Hydran PWC permitted to deploy into any Hydran hex whatever (noting that all Hydran hexes are within six hexes of the capital, such that by operational movement they could so move)?

Thanks

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, January 17, 2015 - 02:01 pm: Edit

Just like to re-ask this question:

Chuck wrote (in Q+A discussion):
>>In my mind this is a straight up issue (this is not YET an official FEDS ruling):

1. Are enemy units blocking all supply paths to friendly units in combat (which are not stacked with valid friendly base) at this very moment?

2. Would the dispatch of one or more reserve fleets to one or more of the locations of blocking enemy ships open a supply path to said friendly units in combat? [Note that supply can flow through a battle hex under (411.2).]

How does this test above not meet the intent of (203.731)?>>

Wondering if any movement has been made on this front, and any possible change or implementation of this idea.

Like, if this is not something that is going to be addressed any time soon, that is fine, but as my current game is going to be affected by any change or ruling on this, soon, I'm just wondering if anything is going to happen here shortly. If not, that's fine, but we kinda need to know soon.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Sunday, January 18, 2015 - 12:19 am: Edit

Jeffery, I'm pretty sure (95+%) that the Hydran ships must be in those specific hexes and none other. The OOB lists the hexes with "and/or" before the final one, so you don't have to put ships in every hex listed, but you can't put them in any hex NOT listed.

I don't have my rulebook with me, so I can't give a good guess at answering the second question right now.


Garth L. Getgen

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Sunday, January 18, 2015 - 11:22 am: Edit

This is the official Q&A topic -- official answers to rule questions are to be answered by ONLY the FEAR, FEDS or ADB. One is welcome to discuss issues related to pending and answered questions in the Q&A Discussions topic but this is not that topic.

Unless directed otherwise by ADB, players are reminded to please refrain from making statements, guesses, and estimations that could be in any way misunderstood as an official answer in this topic; this includes such postings with a disclaimer that it is not an official answer.

FEDS SENDS

By Christopher Schrader (Eastcoastfolk) on Monday, February 02, 2015 - 11:43 am: Edit

Pirate questions from Basic F&E no expansions.

If a Empire not at war has economic points lost due to Piracy Deployments (504.34) is the loss accounted for by cancelling PWC the same as way Bribes are accounted for in (504.322)?

Are the fighters based on PDU's and Bases limited in the number that can attack a pirate by (504.4) to a ship equivalent, six fighter factors unless heavy fighters used, or to 3 ship equivalents limited by command rating (302.332) part A?

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, February 03, 2015 - 10:22 pm: Edit

FEDS CLARIFICATION ON MOVEMENT OF RESERVE FLEETS

Ref:

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(203.731) The moving Reserve Fleet could have as its objective a hex which is not a Battle Hex, but which contains enemy units which are blocking a supply path [see (411.0) and (410.22)] to friendly units in combat, which otherwise would be out of supply during the ensuing Combat Phase.

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By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, February 04, 2015 - 01:50 pm: Edit

Request for clarification of FEDS ruling regarding reserve fleets and 203.731.

Ken Rotar proposed an interesting hypothetical and I was not sure of the answer. This hypothetical dove tails nicely with FEDS ruling above.

Assume that the Hydrans have two powerful reserves offmap of 15 ship equivalents each. Assume further that the Coalition has pinned the Hydran capital hex and further has placed 25 ships equivalents in BOTH of hexes 517 and 518. Further assume the Coalition has cut off the Hydran capital from *all* other Hydran supply points.

The intent of the Coalition player is to prevent both Hydran reserves from reaching 617, or even to move to either of hexes 517 and 518 at all. In this manner, if the Coalition takes the capital and otherwise isolates the capital from all other Hydran supply points, the Hydran treasury (which is positive) will evaporate per 511.325 (except for that which can be saved by Orion smuggling).

The Coalition player's reasoning is that it is impossible for one reserve fleet to open the path for the other, as enough SEs remain after the movement of one reserve fleet to 517 or 518 to block more than half of the other reserve fleet. Also, arguably, it is impossible to take advantage of 203.731 because (in view of FEDS ruling) the Hydran combat units in hex 617 are - by definition - in supply to the main grid because they are in the capital hex. Since they are in supply, the answer to question 2 in FEDS ruling is negative and hence neither reserve fleet can move to either 517 or 518. Hence, a C8 leading 24 E4s in each of 517 and 518 could block very powerful Hydran reserves from either 1) reaching the capital or 2) moving to 517 and 518 to "open supply" to the offmap area so that the Hydran treasury can be evacuated upon the (perceived) inevitable fall of the capital hex during the ensuing combat phase.

The question is, thus, is the Coalition player right? Stated differently, if the ships are in the "main grid" by virtue of being in the capital hex, but are not in supply to the off map area, can a reserve fleet be used to "open supply" between the capital and an offmap area under step 2 of FEDS ruling.

Thank you.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, February 04, 2015 - 02:46 pm: Edit

The reserves in the cited example above CANNOT be sent at all as they both FAIL the second test, because:

(1) there are two "main grids" and

(2) the units in the capital ARE in supply from a main grid because it IS a main grid hub.

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(413.1) DEFINITION: The Supply Grid is a network of bases and planets. It consists of a friendly capital hex (or off-map area), any friendly (i.e., same empire) bases or planets that have a valid Supply Route (six hexes or less) to that hex, any friendly bases or planets that have a valid Supply Route (six hexes or less) to any of those hexes, etc. As long as a base or planet has a supply path (any length, as long as there is a base or planet every six or fewer hexes along that path) to a capital hex (or off map area), it is part of the Supply Grid.

There are two kinds of Supply Grids: Main (or regular) Grids are connected to the capital or off-map area; Partial Supply Grids are not and are covered by (413.4) below. In some cases, a given empire could have one Main Supply Grid connected to the capital, a second Main Supply Grid connected to the off-map area, and one or more Partial Supply Grids.

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By Ken Rotar (Sir_Krotar) on Wednesday, February 04, 2015 - 07:24 pm: Edit

I am still confused by FEDS answer to Ted. His question "is the coalition player right?" seems to be a different question than "Stated differently, if the ships are in the "main grid" by virtue of being in the capital hex, but are not in supply to the off map area, can a reserve fleet be used to "open supply" between the capital and an offmap area under step 2 of FEDS ruling." The second restated question seems to be the position of the Alliance in the hypothetical, not the Coalition. And it seems to me that FEDS was answering "no" to the second question (i.e., is the Alliance position correct), not the first.

When FEDS said "No, (1)because there are two "main grids" and (2) the units in the capital ARE in supply from the main grid because it IS a main grid hub," it sounds to me like he is disagreeing with the Alliance position that reserve fleets can go to 0517 or 0518 with the justification that it is opening supply to 0617.

I am asking for clarification because Ted believes that the answer to his question is that the coalition is wrong, which would therefore mean that the Alliance reserve fleets CAN move to 0517 or 0518 in this situation.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, February 05, 2015 - 12:04 am: Edit

In the above case cited by Ted Fay the reserves CANNOT be sent at all as they both FAIL the second test -- the combat engaged units do NOT have their supply path blocked to a main grid as they are in fact sitting ON the very hub of a main grid.

I will change the FEDS reply above to reflect better reflect this.

FEDS

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, February 05, 2015 - 12:28 am: Edit

FEDS NOTE:

The SOLE purpose of (203.731) is to open (a main grid) supply path to units engaged is COMBAT. There is no enabling provision under (203.731) to open a supply path to evacuate EPs or salvage or move ships to a repair depot or any other items from a doomed main grid to its off-map area.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, February 09, 2015 - 02:32 pm: Edit

Q531.212: Police ships cannot use operational movement to enter a hex containing more than one enemy ship. I can find no prohibition against a police ship being placed in a reserve fleet and then sent to a combat hex containing more than one enemy ship. Can a police ship in a reserve fleet travel with the reserve fleet to a combat hex during the reserve movement phase, the combat hex containing more than one enemy ship?

No.

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(203.71) OPERATIONAL RULES: Reserve Fleets are moved using the rules for Operational Movement, except that no Reaction Movement (205.0) by the Phasing Player (or any other) is allowed. X-ships‡ form an exception (523.222) as they can react to Reserve Movement.

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By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, February 09, 2015 - 02:51 pm: Edit

Q(302.723) Partial Retreat from a Capital.

When is a Partial Retreat actually announced and conducted? (302.723) only says "at the end of each combat round" is when partial retreats are conducted. This is vague. There is no specific step in the SOP that mentions Partial Retreats. Given that, it seems like a Partial Retreat is conducted just like a regular retreat (i.e. the defender either declares it in the first retreat step or the second retreat step after the attacker declares retreat or not). But then the last sentence of (302.723) says "If the defending player elects to conduct a pursuit, he may not conduct a a retreat with other units as the Partial Retreat option is available only during the combat procedure." Which doesn't actually make any sense.

Retreat (presumably including Partial Retreat, as nothing indicates otherwise) happens in Phase 5, Step 7. Pursuit fights happen in Phase 5, Step 8. Nothing in the SOP would indicate that if ships Partially Retreat in Phase 5, Step 7 then the remaining ships could not then pursue retreating ships in Phase 5, Step 8. Except that mostly non sensical sentence at the end of (302.723) which refers to "Partial Retreat option only being available during the combat procedure".

What does "Partial Retreat option is available only during the combat procedure" mean? Does Partial Retreat have a separate SOP step (that isn't actually listed in the SOP)?

None of this makes sense. I checked the master errata file and there is no errata at all about Partial Retreats.

There is a subset of the SoP for capitals under (511.5) PROCEDURE FOR CAPITAL ASSAULTS; Partial Retreats would be the final act of Step 8 under (511.58).

FEDS SENDS

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, February 09, 2015 - 04:07 pm: Edit

Where in the general SOP does Partial Retreat happen, and what makes it prevent Pursuit on the same round?

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 07:15 pm: Edit

Q302.76: Assuming there was a pursuit battle after retreat was announced, when determining the "last battle force" do you use the Empire of the command ship of the battle force presented during the pursuit battle or the Empire of the command ship of the battle force presented before retreat was announced?

Situation: A combined force of Klingons and Lyrans assault the Hydran capital at hex 617 on a Coalition turn. On a prior Coalition turn, the Klingons took and held planet 718 (thus, it is a valid Klingon supply point on the turn of the capital assault). The Coalition has also placed both a Lyran and a Klingon supply tug in hex 815 during the economic phase of the current turn.

On combat round X the Coalition presents a valid battle fleet commanded by a Klingon C8, fighting over Hydrax major. During the retreat determination phase (step 5-7A2 of the sequence of play) the Coalition announces retreat. The Hydrans announce their intention to pursue.

The Hydrans catch the retreating Coalition force. The Coalition presents a valid pursued battle force which is commanded by a crippled Lyran BC and having at least half of the commanded ships being Lyran).

The pursuit battle is fought, and results applied. The Coalition now must determine to which hex it is going to retreat.

Per 302.76: "In the case of a retreating force consisting of units from two or more allies, they must all remain together and use the retreat priorities of the empire which provided the flagship of the last Battle Force (or the force that produced the first retreating units, or the first Battle Force if using a retreat before combat)."

In the example above, which empire provided the flagship of the "last" battle force? Which battle force "produced" the "first" retreating units?

The Coalition player says that the *Lyrans* produced the "last" battle force, as it was the pursued battle force and was the last one presented. The Lyran force also "produced" the "first" retreating units. In this case, the Lyrans may pick either 616 or 717 as a retreat hex (ignore any potential Hydran units in 716). The Klingons go with them per 302.76.

The Alliance player says, no, the "last" battle force was the Klingon force presented on combat round "X", and it "produced" the "first" retreating units. If so, then the Klingons must retreat to 718. The Lyrans go with them per 302.76 (unless of course the Klingons and Lyrans announced split retreat under 302.761)

So, please answer the question as to how to properly determine the empire which provided the flagship of the "last" battle force under 302.76.

Rapid consideration and answer requested respectfully. Thank you.

By Ken Rotar (Sir_Krotar) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 02:11 pm: Edit

In my game, the Hydran capital just fell, and since it was cut off from the off-map area, I'm looking for ways--other than Orion smuggling--to save my treasury. Here is the relevant rule:

(511.352) If the capital has a supply path to another base or planet at the instant before it falls, the Treasury (430.1) can be evacuated to that base or planet; treat this as a transfer to a partial grid (435.24). If not, some of it can be evacuated by Orion smuggling (410.34) and the rest is lost; it cannot be captured. Any deficit (430.63) is evacuated automatically.

Ted thought that the treasury--most of which came from salvage of ships destroyed in the capital assault--could be loaded onto tugs, but according to 442.323, it looks like it is not legal:

{442.323} EPs can be loaded onto carrying units at the start of the Operational Movement or Strategic Movement Steps. EPs are unloaded at a valid strategic movement node on the main grid or any partial grid at the end of the Strategic
Movement Step.

So, can tugs receive emergency EPs if they had nowhere else to go? Ted and I thought it was worth getting a ruling.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 07:30 pm: Edit

Nope, salvage goes to the nearest supply point (which could be a supply tug?) in the grid (if this is in the main grid, it ends up at the capital [439.11]), if in a partial grid [439.12]it's a supply point in the partial). If there is no grid, then salvage is lost (no way to get the leftovers to some central point)...

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, March 13, 2015 - 11:38 pm: Edit

Q: If a neutral zone hex is annexed, is it still captured by the next opposing empire's ship that moves through it?

By Ken Rotar (Sir_Krotar) on Saturday, March 14, 2015 - 01:55 pm: Edit

Stewart, the main question I have is if there is a way other than using Orion smuggling to evacuate the treasury of a capital that has just fallen and which doesn't have a supply line to the off-map area. In particular, can the treasury be loaded onto tugs at the point that the capital is taken?

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Saturday, March 14, 2015 - 07:53 pm: Edit

Wrong topic

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, March 16, 2015 - 12:22 am: Edit

Q:In particular, can the treasury be loaded onto tugs at the point that the capital is taken?

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, March 16, 2015 - 05:19 pm: Edit

Q:In particular, can the treasury be loaded onto tugs at the point that the capital is taken?

First, to be clear, Orion smuggling from a doomed capital occurs "at the instant before it falls"; see (511.352).

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(511.352) If the capital has a supply path to another base or planet at the instant before it falls, the Treasury (430.1) can be evacuated to that base or planet; treat this as a transfer to a partial grid (435.24). If not, some of it can be evacuated by Orion smuggling (410.34) and the rest is lost; it cannot be captured. Any deficit (430.63) is evacuated automatically.

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