Proposed F&E Designations for WYN Ships

Ship Description	Proposed F&E Designation
FISH SHIPS
Dreadnought (Grey Shark)	DN
Dreadnought - Light (Fast Ship)	DNL
Dreadnought - Heavy	DNH
.	.
Heavy Battlecruiser (Tiger Shark)	BCH
.	.
Heavy Cruiser (Carcharodon)	CA
Heavy Cruiser - X Tech	CAX
Strike Carrier	CVS
Division Control Ship	DCS
Fast Cruiser	CF
.	.
Heavy War Cruiser	CHW
.	.
War Cruiser (Orca)	CW
War Cruiser - Escort	CWE
War Cruiser - Fast Ship	CWF
War Cruiser - Commando	CWG
War Cruiser - Leader	CWL
War Cruiser - Mauler (Narwhal)	CWM
War Cruiser - PFT	CWP
War Cruiser - PFT X Tech	CWPX
War Cruiser - Carrier	CWV
War Cruiser - X Tech	CWX
War Cruiser - Light Transport Tug	LTT *
.	.
Heavy War Destroyer (Thresher)	HDW *
Heavy War Destroyer - X Tech	HWX *
.	.
War Destroyer (Mako)	DW
War Destroyer - Drone	DWD
War Destroyer - Escort	DWE
War Destroyer - Commando	DWG
War Destroyer - PFT	DWP
War Destroyer - Scout	DWS
War Destroyer - Carrier	DWV
War Destroyer - X Tech	DWX
.	.
Frigate (Barracuda)	FF
Frigate - FCR	FCR *
Frigate - Escort	FFE
Frigate - Commando	FFG
.	.
ORION PURCHASED SHIPS
Battle Raider	OBR
Battle Raider - Flagship	OBRF
.	.
Light Cruiser	OCR
Light Cruiser - Flagship	OCRF
Light Cruiser - X Tech	OCRX
.	.
Double Raider	ODR
.	.
Light Raider	OLR
Light Raider - Scout	OLRS
Light Raider - X Tech	OLRX
	.
WYN CONVERTED SHIPS
Lyran - Pocket Battleship	LPB
Lyran - Pocket Battlecruiser	LPC
Lyran - Destroyer	LDD
.	.
Kzinti - War Destroyer	ZDW
Kzinti - Frigate	ZFF
Kzinti - Drone Frigate	ZDF
Kzinti - Frigate - X Tech	ZFX
.	.
Klingon - E4	KE4
Klingon - G2	KG2
.	.
Federation - Police Cutter	FPL
.	.
Romulan - SeaHawk	RSH
.	.
Gorn - Frigate	GFF
.	.
ISC - Destroyer - X Tech	IDX
.	.
Seltorian - Destroyer	SDD
Seltorian - Frigate	SFF
.	.
Jindarian - Light Cruiser	JCL
.	.
AUXILIARY SHIPS - WYN MODIFIED
Small Aux Combatant	SUC
Small Aux Light Scout	SUS
Small Aux Commando Ship	SUG
Small Aux Light Carrier	SUV
Small Aux Advanced Cruiser X	SUX
.	.
Large Aux Battle Cruiser	LUC
.	.
Jumbo Aux Battle Carrier	JUV
Jumbo Aux Battle Control Ship	JUB
.	.
Heavy Aux Dreadnought Combatant	HUC
Heavy Aux Battle Control Ship	HUB
.	.
AUXILIARY SHIPS - STANDARD
Small Aux Light Carrier	SAV *
Small Aux PF Tender	SAP *
Small Aux Scout	SAS *
.	.
Large Aux Heavy Carrier	LAV *
Large Aux Space Control Ship	ASC *
Large Aux Scout	LAS *

* Established F&E Standard Class Designation

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 07:46 pm: Edit

NOTIONAL WYN OOB Y168F-Y186F
DRAFT v1

At Start of Y168F:
LDD, 3xZFF, 3xKG2, OCRF, 9xOLR, OLRS, 20xSUC, 5xSUS, 2xSUG, {3xSUM*}, 3xMON

*These units are for accounting purposes as minesweepers are not currently in F&E

PRODUCTION:

Y168F: 2xSUC, OLR

Y169S: 2xSUC; Add: ODR, ZFF
Y169F: 2xSUC, OLR; Add: OBR

Y170S: SUC, SUV; Add OCR
Y170F: SUC, SUV, OLR; Add: JWL?

Y171S: SUC, SUV
Y171F: 2xSUC, OLR

Y172S: 2xSUC
Y172F: 2xSUC, OLR

Y173S: LAV; Add KE4?
Y173F: LUC, OLR

Y174S: SUC; Add OBRF
Y174F: JUV, OLR

Y175S: FF; Add GFF
Y175F: HUC; Add OCR

Y176S: LUC; Add RSH
Y176F: FF, LUC

Y177S: FF, SUC; Add ZFF
Y177F: FF, JUV

Y178S: FF, LUC
Y178F: FFG, SAS

Y179S: FF, SUC, SAP
Y179F: FFG, 2xSAP

Y180S: FF, LAS; Add: OCR
Y180F: FF, LUC, DWP

Y181S: FF, SUC; Convert OBR/OBRF
Y181F: DW, FF, ASC; Add OBR, Convert LDD/LPB, Remove SUV

Y182S: CW, DWS, FF, LAS; Convert OCR/OCRX, OLR/OLRX
Y182F: CW, DWG, FFX, LUC; Convert OLR/OLRX

Y183S: LTT, DW, FF, SUX; Add ZDW, Convert HUC/HUB
Y183F: CW, DW, FF, JUB; Add ZFX, ZDF

Y184S: CA, CWV, DWE, FF, SUX, SUC
Y184F: CWP, DWD, FCR, LUC

Y185S: CWM(CA), CW, DWE, FF, SUX
Y185F: CWL, DWX, FF, JUB; Remove FFX

Y186S: CAX, CWL, DWX, FF, 2xSUC
Y186F: CW, DW, FFE, LUC; Convert CW/CHW

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 08:17 pm: Edit

Notes:
Will need to determine if Orions provided any external Aux support (APT, PTR, other)
The WYN CHW didn't participate in the WoR.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 10:18 pm: Edit

R-Section request.

The HCW (!) was unique and it didn't leave the cluster for the Civil War. YIS=186

The DDP was unique also and the history is very murky if it participated in the Civil War. YIS=180

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 11:03 pm: Edit

Y174S add should be an OBR, not an OBRF. Per both R12.A3 (CL37) and the G# MSC, the OBRF is a unique unit that entered service in Y181, by conversion from an OBR. R12.A3 notes that an OBR (Aurora) was purchased in Y174.
-Jason E. Schaff - 01/12/2012

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, January 13, 2012 - 03:33 am: Edit

PS: Thanks for the r-section info.

WYN DWP: I can live with murky for this unit in the WoR as the Usurper OOB is too light on scout units and will be challenged enough to field three full attrition units as it is.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, January 13, 2012 - 04:16 am: Edit

Jason:

Fixed the OBR/OBRF error -- thanks.

ALL:

Just reread the CL37 article (pg 20) and found that "he (the Userper) took all of the Orion ships with him, except the Atonement (OCRF) and Aurora (OBRF)..." This means we'll need to add the following ships to the WoR Userper OOB based upon this information:

2xOBR, 2xOCR, ODR, 12xOLR, OLRS

By Stewart W Frazier (Frazikar2) on Friday, January 13, 2012 - 08:45 pm: Edit

Hmmm, the Aurora is listed as an OBR in T8S2 with a delaying mission (vs MCV Starkiller) with an OCR and 2 OLR...

The Atonement is listed as an OCR in T8S1 (delay mission vs Kzinti FF squadron) with an OLR...

What year did the conversion happen?

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, January 13, 2012 - 11:13 pm: Edit

...standardization of aux hull designations, text/OOB visual recognition, and SIT organization simplicity...

Hull Size (S,L,J,H = Small/Large/Jumbo/Heavy)

Aux/User (A=All/U=WYN)

Mission type (A=Armed, B=BattleControl, C=Combatant, D=Drone, E=Escort, G=Ground-Troop, H=Heavy-Fighter, J=Jail/Penal, L=Logistics, M=Minesweeper, O=Oiler, P=PFT, Q=Q-Ship, R=Repair, S=Scout, V=Carrier, X=X-ship)

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, January 13, 2012 - 11:24 pm: Edit

Stew: The newer, more specific CL37 history trumps the older (pick a name) T8 ship names (must have been some other OCR/OBR......)

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Saturday, January 14, 2012 - 07:53 am: Edit

Stewart:

R12.A3 (CL37) States that the BR Aurora was purchased from the WYN in Y174, and converted to an OFB in Y181. ZCL47 also specifies that a replacement for Aurora was acquired when she was converted: We might assume that it is this replacement hull that appears in T8S2.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, January 06, 2013 - 06:14 pm: Edit

WYN vs Andro data:

*SFB Module C3, (R12.1K). The Inter-Stellar Concordium's intrusion into the WYN Cluster prompts "many" (exact number as yet undefined) WYN-Orion ships serving in the Usurper's forces to quit their posts and return home to the Cluster. (This withdrawal prompted the Usurper to accept the Crown Prince's offer of a duel, which would lead to the events portrayed in (SH119.0).) "These ships arrived home only days prior to the one spectacular Andromedan attempt to invade the Cluster."

*Captain's Log #37, History of the WYN Navy article. The wreck of a Dominator left over from the Andromedan assault remained in WYN space, where it is towed from system to system as a war trophy.

*FC: War and Peace rulebook, page 18. A note in the Andromedan background section states that "one ship was captured partially intact" after the failed asault, which led to the first solid evidence that the invaders originated from Messier 31. The exact nature of this evidence has yet to be specified. Whether or not the Dominator wreck noted above is the same ship is also unconfirmed.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, January 06, 2013 - 07:54 pm: Edit

Andros vs. WYN;
Probably the only part from the LMC Module you need to be aware of, is they used a pair of Dominators with specially designed Energy Modules that filled the Hanger space, save for a single SatB that was intended to extend the RTN into the Core. Presumably the Super Energy Module was to small to survive transit into WYN space.

Pure speculation; part of the reason they were building the the Devestator BB may be to ensure that no one could hide in WYN space, assuming it could carry larger S-EMs combined with the larger number of PA Panels on the base ship.

By Charles Shevlin (Chass22) on Saturday, February 23, 2013 - 12:32 am: Edit

I would like to see the WYN kept in miner empires and a play test for them in CL47.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, February 23, 2013 - 06:34 am: Edit

I don't agree.

By Charles Shevlin (Chass22) on Sunday, February 24, 2013 - 03:24 pm: Edit

You are the one in charge.

Vudar than for CL47.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Saturday, May 28, 2016 - 07:14 am: Edit

Could someone post a table of all currently published F&E ships the Klingons, Lyrans, and Kzinti could LEGALLY SELL the WYN under F&E rule (449.2)? I'd also like to cross reference them with any EXISTING WYN SFB SSDs (including playtest) and the associated published SFU product.

Please use this format:

			Existing WYN Variant SSD	WYN Variant	WYN Variant
Empire	Ship	Factors	WYN Designation	SFB Product	Referrence #
Klingon	E4	4/2	KE4	R3	R12.15
Klingon	F5	5/3	None	N/A	N/A

Here is an extract of the applicable rules:

---

Quote:

(449.22) SIZE LIMIT: No ship larger than 6 combat points (attack or defense, including fighters and/or PFs) can be sold to the WYNs. (This is based on the uncrippled strength of the unit, even if it is crippled. Ships with shock cannot use their non-shock rating.) Any larger ship would be confiscated without compensation. [It should be noted that, under the Advanced Rules, there could theoretically be a time that outright giving the WYNs a dozen cruisers might actually make sense.] Police ships, auxiliaries, and nonstop units cannot be sold to the WYNs under these rules.

---

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, May 28, 2016 - 07:28 am: Edit

I don't have my copy of Captain's Log #37 to hand, but would the "WYN-Seltorian" SSDs published in that issue count (since they were captured by the Klingons, who then sold them on to the WYNs)?

On another note, a number of R-section entries for the "fish ships" in Module C3 note that certain systems used in these hulls (such as warp engines and sensor systems) were sourced from the Klingons. Would there need to be some sort of accounting for this (as in, to oblige the WYNs to pay a certain surcharge to the Klingons for each "fish ship" being constructed); or is that the kind of detail which would be abstracted out at an F&E level?

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Saturday, May 28, 2016 - 11:17 am: Edit

Gary,

The Klingons, Lyrans, and Kzinti trade would account for these parts already. They provide finished materials and in return receive needed rare minerals and fissile materials in return.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Saturday, May 28, 2016 - 11:45 am: Edit

Gary:

You are going off on a tangent. I'm just focused on the information requested please.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Saturday, May 28, 2016 - 07:02 pm: Edit

Lyran rough table

Lyr	FF	4/2	LFF	Rx	R12.y
Lyr	DD	5/3	LDD	C1	R12.2
Lyr	DW	6/3	PBC	R6	R12.38
Lyr	CL	6/3	LCL	Rx	R12.y

PBB (R12.12) is the LDD upgraded to CW design

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 12:35 pm: Edit

Stewart:

You seem to be missing some eligible ships:

CLE, CLS, CLG
DWS, DWT, DWE, DWG
DDG, SC, DDE
FFT, FFE

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 12:45 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

(449.23) UPON DELIVERY of the ship, the WYNs will pay to the race selling the ship an amount of EPs equal to double the original construction cost of the base hull type of that ship if it is uncrippled and to the original construction cost if it is crippled, up to a maximum of 10 EPs per ship. The "original construction cost" is defined as the lowest cost for which a base hull of that type could be built by any of the various methods, not necessarily the cost of that specific ship. (I.e., you cannot overbuild a 5-point frigate just to get more from the WYNs when it is delivered. To the WYNs, it is a new ship and they do not care how it came to be built.)

---

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 12:51 pm: Edit

X-Ships are paid in XTPs and treated the same way as I understand the rest of (449.23). Thus a Lyran SCX would be paid as Lyran DDX.

FEDS: Both of these X-ships are ineligible as their AF or DF compot is over 6.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 03:44 pm: Edit

Empire	Ship	Factors	Wyn Designation	SFB Product	SFB Reference
Kzinti	CL	6/3	None	None	None
Kzinti	CLG	2-6G/1-3G	None	None	None
Kzinti	CLD	6 Sc Symbol <4>/3	None	None	None
Kzinti	CVE*	6(3)/3(1.5)	None	None	None
Kzinti	CLE	4-6 Escort Symbol/2-3 Escort Symbol	None	None	None
Kzinti	DW	6/3	None	None	None
Kzinti	DWE	5-6 Escort Symbol/2-3 Escort Symbol	None	None	None
Kzinti	DWG	3-6G/2-3	None	None	None
Kzinti	DWS	4-6 Sc Symbol/2-3	None	None	None
Kzinti	DWV*	6(4)/3(2)	None	None	None
Kzinti	SDW	4-6 Sc Symbol <4>/2-3	None	None	None
Kzinti	DD	6/3	None	None	None
Kzinti	DDE	4-6 Escort Symbol/2-3 Escort Symbol	None	None	None
Kzinti	DDS	3-6 Sc Symbol/2-3	None	None	None
Kzinti	DDV*	3-6(6)/1-3(3)	None	None	None
Kzinti	PFT*	2-6P Sc Symbol/0-3P	None	None	None
Kzinti	FFK	5/3	None	None	None
Kzinti	FKE	4-5 Escort Symbol/3 Escort Symbol	None	None	None
Kzinti	FKX*	7/4	None	None	None
Kzinti	FF	4/2	ZFF	C1	4
Kzinti	FFT	3-4U/1-2	None	None	None
Kzinti	SF	2-4 Sc Symbol/0-2	None	None	None
Kzinti	FFG	1-4G/0-2	None	None	None
Kzinti	POL	4/None	None	None	None
Kzinti	DF	4<4>/2	None	None	None
Kzinti	FLG	2-4G Sc Symbol/None	None	None	None
Kzinti	SDF	4<4> Sc Symbol/2	None	None	None
Kzinti	EFF	2-4 Escort Symbol/1-2 Escort Symbol	None	None	None
Kzinti	FCR*	2-4(6) Escort Symbol/1-2	None	None	None
Kzinti	PV*	2-4(3)/None	None	None	None
Kzinti	FDX	6-7<4> Sc Symbol/3-4 Sc Symbol	None	None	None

Note: Units with * after Ship Designation are not allowed to be sold to the WYN under (449.0).

Unknown Unit: WYN FZX: I am unable to determine if the ship was converted from a FKX or converted to an X-Ship from a Kzinti FF or WYN ZFF.

Units that I am unable to confirm from the list above: Kzinti DW to WYN ZDW, Kzinti DF to WYN ZDF