It looks like it's in the spirit of the rules as disbanding the CC is optional for the Fed. To pay for the new CC, he has to cancel some PWC...
[which is 'diverting money to other items specified in the rules' (new CC)]

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 11:44 pm: Edit

I disagree that it is the spirit of the rule.

The rule number you quoted seems to me to only be a reminder that you CAN (in some cases) cancel production to pay for specific things.

Generally, unless a rule says you can do something, you cannot.

Nowhere in the com con rule does it say you can cancel production to pay for a comcon.

More specifically, the rules for peace time economy do not specify that you can, in general, cancel production to pay for things.

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 - 10:10 am: Edit

Well in any case the Kzinti surely can, so it could start moving towards the Feds instead.

There are very few rules that specify you can cancel PWC to pay for something:

314.34
314.35 (opposite really, but interesting in how it states the obvious)
529.47

I personally do not think that 602.171 is limited to just those 3 above rules. Seems kinda pointless to have the rule in the first place if that is the case, if the other rules already cover it. I think it's more so that other things that are allowed to be purchased during a Peacetime Economy can be bought if so desired. Also it's worth noting that the Romulan OOB does not have a corresponding rule like the Feds do, which I think lends some support to my belief.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 06:35 am: Edit

Peter, once the com con has arrived at the Marquis SB it has completed required minimum movement for delivery of EPs. There is no logical reason for the com con to ever be in hex 1702 or anywhere else outside the Marquis area except for the Kzinti-Fed Neutral Zone or Federation space. The best options are to pay the 5 EPs to restart it at the Federation Off Map SB or move the com con in such a way to delay the arrival of it at the Federation 4th Fleet SB on turn 7. The Kzintis could pay the 5 EPs to restart it at the Federation Off Map SB under (443.31).

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 08:41 am: Edit

If the Kzinti pay the 5 EPs, it must start on a Kzinti SB, it can't start on the Fed SB.

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Quote:

443.31: Either of the partner races can pay this cost; the replacement is put at any primary grid starbase of the race that paid for the replacement.

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By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 01:40 pm: Edit

>>There is no logical reason for the com con to ever be in hex 1702 or anywhere else outside the Marquis area except for the Kzinti-Fed Neutral Zone or Federation space.>>

The basic premise of my question was "what happens if the Fed-Kzinti com-con is attacked before the Feds are in the war", as someone I am in a game with suggested that you might not be able to attack the Fed-Kzinti com con without provoking the Feds into war.

Given that that was the basic premise of my question, the logical reason for the com con to have been out of the Marquis zone was that if it can't be attacked, moving it out of the Marquis Zone gets it to the Kzinti off map area faster.

It turns out that there is nothing preventing the Coalition from attacking the com con before the Feds are at war. So having the com con wander out of the Marquis zone turns out to be a terrible idea. So the end result is either just move the com con back to the Fed SB in 2204 the regular way, or disband it, suck it up, pay the 5EPs, and start it over off map. But again, the basic premise of the question I had originally was "can the Coalition attack the Fed-Kzinti com con without provoking the Feds into war?". Which makes all the rest of the discussion make sense.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 04:54 pm: Edit

I agree with Peter. Given we were wondering whether it was a legal move, it was a very logical question.

If we could avoid paying 5 EP then that is the smart choice.

If the rules dont allow it, it doesnt change the logic. Just means its not allowed.

So we now decide whether to hold it on the Marquis SB for a turn and have it arrive on T7 (if not destroyed), send it back now so it arrives on T6 and gives no money, disband it and have the Kzinti pay 5 EP for a new one or some other possibility.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 08:21 pm: Edit

Unfortunately (443.51) doesn't allow for a 'hold' - 'On the next turn the CCom reverses its direction and heads back toward the other empire.'

Personally, I don't mind if the Fed player makes that decision as he knows the penalty for it...

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 08:29 pm: Edit

I don't think there is any rule saying how you MUST move your ComCon...

By Bill Steele (Bill83501) on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 10:03 pm: Edit

or how you move it, you could take the 'long road'

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 10:52 am: Edit

Yeah, it is clear that the Com Con has to leave the SB the turn after it delivers EPs, but there is nothing that prevents it from dilly-dallying around to waste a turn, for example (the convoy commander clearly needs to set a longer course around that space dragon or something...)

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 08:28 pm: Edit

True, but the possible penalty would be seeing it destroyed on Turn #7...

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 04:48 pm: Edit

Moving a discussion on Slow Retreat away from the actual Q&A thread and to here where it belongs.

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I think the problem is, all cripples are included when being pursued, but the Slow Retreat rule specifically says a "non-pursuit" battle takes place.

So just reading the words "non-pursuit" would be enough for me to say all Aux arent valid targets, its a standard battle line.

It seems to make far more sense that it be "pursuit" like, where all the slow ships can be targeted, but the command rating of the flag ship determines how many of those slow ships count towards the compot.

Or even being able to target the Slow ships which arent on the line at x3 would still mean one can die fairly easily.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, November 29, 2015 - 03:47 pm: Edit

Just curious, is there any information on who normally lives on Pavarak (5403).

I read an interesting bit about Circle Trigon (5109), just wondered.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Sunday, November 29, 2015 - 04:40 pm: Edit

I have found nothing on Pavarak in my research.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, December 11, 2015 - 03:27 pm: Edit

Peter Bakija from Q&A:
Allied Retreat Priority Question (302.76):

Assume there are three Coalition ships in a hex. 1 is Klingon, 1 is Lyran, 1 is Romulan. They are attacked by a superior force. The Coalition select the Lyran ships as the flagship and exclude the Klingon and Romulan ships from the battle. The Lyran ship is destroyed. The other two Coalition ships retreat.

Whose retreat priority do the ships follow? The Lyran flagship was destroyed and isn't retreating. But was the last flagship selected. Can the retreating Klingon and Romulan retreat using the Lyran Flagship's priorities?

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, December 11, 2015 - 03:30 pm: Edit

Note that 302.76 Allied Ships says to use the priority of the flagship of the previous round, or the force that provided the first retreating force, or something with withdraw before combat which doesn't apply here (as no units did that).

By Jeffrey Tiel (Platoaquinas) on Monday, January 11, 2016 - 07:12 pm: Edit

In a mauler attack on a ship in the formation bonus, must the target ship be crippled at the outset of the battle round, or could the mauler be used if the damage from the round was already sufficient to cripple the target and only then the mauler be used to finish off the target? So, e.g., imagine a capital assault round where the defender targets the enemy DN and has enough firepower to cripple the DN at three times the required damage (36 points). But then the defender also has a 12 point Lyran STL and has 12 points of damage still to assign. Can the Lyran player then (i.e., in the same battle round) use the STL mauler at half strength and kill the crippled DN for 6 mauler points?

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, January 11, 2016 - 07:21 pm: Edit

No.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Monday, January 11, 2016 - 08:24 pm: Edit

Remember that directed damage is first (Phase 5- Step 5!) and a mauler's special ability is directed damage (308.41)...

By Jeffrey Tiel (Platoaquinas) on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 06:34 am: Edit

Stewart,

Right. I see.

Thanks to you & Richard.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, May 31, 2016 - 04:16 pm: Edit

In Q+A I wrote:
>>It is Alliance Turn 3. The Hydrans have attacked the Lyran border battle stations. The Klingons have a reserve fleet in hex 1013. The Klingon reserve fleet wants to use reserve movement to go to Lyran the battle station in hex 0413. Can the Klingon reserve fleet travel through the Klingon/Hydran neutral zone hexes to get there, even though the Hydrans have not attacked the Klingons yet?>>

And Ryan wrote:
>>By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Tuesday, May 31, 2016 - 10:22 am: Edit

No, they can't enter the NZ without declaring war, which they can't do on T3.

(503.61) Units are not allowed to enter neutral zone hexes which are adjacent to future belligerents until War or an alliance exists with that empire.>>

Huh. How did I never notice this before? I mean, like, it makes perfect sense. But I don't know how clear it is in the rules that the Klingons are not at war with the Hydrans on T3 after they attack the Lyrans. But ok!

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Tuesday, May 31, 2016 - 05:05 pm: Edit

(601.2) Turn 3 Hydrans are not required to attack. Klingons and/or Lyrans cannot attack Hydrans.

Next question is where did the Reserve marker come from? The only two released when Coalition Reserves setup are the Northern Reserve and TBS. Southern Reserve Marker isn't released until SR is released (by the Hydran attack on Lyrans or Klingons) and Home Fleet doesn't release until Hydrans enter Klingon Space or T4.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, May 31, 2016 - 05:15 pm: Edit

Well, yes. That much is clear. The reserve in question was an already released reserve. It was just put in a less than optimal spot by virtue of both of us not paying attention to the NZ rule. It could have been set up in 1011 and at least been able to reserve to the Lyran SB on 0411. But it was in 1013 (which at least puts those ships closer to important stuff in Hydran space), which meant it couldn't actually go anywhere in Lyran space this turn.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Tuesday, May 31, 2016 - 06:23 pm: Edit

I think from 1011 they could have gone, but the Klingons can't enter the NZ until they are attacked by the Hydrans or T4.