Yes, someone has been working on the Balance Factors (653). I have done an simple analysis of the published 653 balance factors using an attack compot and EP comparison, assuming one EP equals one attack compot, and accounting for the number of turns the change is effective (also assuming a 34 turn General War and historical entry dates). This analysis has worked surprisingly well. I had to use a greater value than is published to generate noticeable balance factor values for some of the options. The results of this analysis is posted below.

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 11:53 am: Edit

Only commenting on the factors that are out of whack
653.1A Extra SB published +10 I suggest +25
653.1A Two Extra BATS published +10 I suggest +19
653.1A Four extra PDUs published +10 I suggest +14
653.1D Extra capital BATS published +20, calcs out to +9, but I think +20 accounts for the value of the location. No change.
653.1I Small CA mothball fleet published -9 I suggest -3
653.1B, 653.1F, 653.1H are difficult to evaluate

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 12:15 pm: Edit

Feds
653.2A Increase turn7-9 production published +16 I suggest +84 (this is a huge benefit)
653.2B Increase turn6 production published +4 I suggest +15
653.2B Increase turn5-6 production published +8 I suggest +29
653.2C Remove CVL from survey for onmap published +2 each I suggest +3 each (up to +21 of course)
653.2E Non-combat CVLs published -4 I suggest -9
653.2F CL mothballs published -1 each mothball I suggest a three ship option at -2 and a six ship option at -4
653.2G 5th Fleet detachment delayed to Rom attack published at -5 I suggest -2 (the detachment is small and the delay short)
653.2H Delete all DNs published at -10 I sugest -25 (they aren't replaced!)

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 12:33 pm: Edit

Klingons
653.3A Activate 3rd IWR one turn early published +8 I suggest +1 (only one turn effect)
653.3C Convert onmap D6 to D6M/D published +1 I suggest +2
653.3D Eliminate 3rd IWR squadron published -6 I suggest -19 (this eliminates these ships forever)
653.3E Mothball onmap D6s published at -1 each I suggest -2 each (they will not come back for many turns)
653.3F Demothball D6s published at +1 each I suggest 2xD6 for +4, 4xD6 for +6 and 6xD6 for +8
653.3G Mothball onmap D6M/D published -2 I suggest 3xD6M/D for -1 (these will get demothballed first so the delay is short)
653.3I TBS released on turn one published +10 I suggest +2 (the advance is short)
653.3J No wartime economy turn one published -8 I suggest -16 (significant lost income, and production/ships that are gone for 34 turns)

By Jimi LaForm (Laform) on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 12:37 pm: Edit

Alan, the 653.2A suggestion of +84. Wow huge... why so many points for this one if I may ask?

By Richard Abbott (Catwhoorg) on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 12:46 pm: Edit

653.3I TBS available for the Turn 2 attack is actually a huge advantage for that narrow window of oppurtunity to do an early assault on the capital.
+10 is a fair value.

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 12:52 pm: Edit

Jimi it is a ton of new attack factors (15 NCLs and 24 FFs) that are available for ~25 turns. Huge, the way I calculated for all of these.

Richard, not really, it is effectively a two turn advance (could be just one if it fights as a reserve) for a relatively small fleet. Not a big effect, although the Kzintis may disagree. A special tactical effect on one turn of the game is difficult (impossible?) to compare to other balance factors.

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 04:21 pm: Edit

Romulan
653.4A Add KR, K5, 2xK4 to production schedule published +30 I suggest +176
653.4B Add SP, SK to production turns 7-9 published +4 I suggest +13
653.4C Delete 12 K4Rs published -8 I suggest -18
653.4D No SNB and make SNBs SNs published -4 I suggest -6
653.4E Explore a province published +3 I suggest +1
653.4F Explore one minor planet published +5 I suggest +2
653.4G One more carrier group per turn published +20 I suggest +27
653.4H No KEs or KE conversions published -10 I suggest -14
653.4I Tholian nonaggression pact and 19 hulls into West Fleet published +10 I suggest +1
653.4J No carriers or escorts at all published -20 I suggest -66

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 04:29 pm: Edit

Kzinti
653.5A Create 2xFF, 2xDD mothball published +5 I suggest +10
653.5B Add Barony to capital at setup published +20 I suggest +4 (although this does change the initial dynamic significantly)
653.5C Remove 36 attack factors from Barony published -20 I suggest -17
653.5D Add releasable Marquis to Duke/Count published +20 I suggest +3)
653.5E 5 EPs a turn from Feds and neutral hexes published +10 I suggest +1
653.5F Remove DDs and replace DD production with FFs published -6 I suggest -20
653.5G One turn delay in Marquis published -10 I suggest -2
653.5H Six ships in cluster, 5 EPs from cluster and free repairs published +20 I suggest +4
653.5I Convert BC+CL+FF to CVL for setup published +4 each I suggest +2 each
653.5J Convert BC to CC at start published +1 each I suggest +1 for two

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 04:35 pm: Edit

Gorn
653.6A Carrier groups one year earlier pub +3 I suggest +4
653.6B Two carrier groups per turn pub +20 I suggest +43
653.6C Delay carriers one year pub -3 I suggest -4
653.6D Prohibit all carriers pub -15 I suggest -42
653.6E Convert CL to BC on turns 5 through 7 pub +4 I suggest +2
653.6F Convert DD to BDD for setup pub +1 each I suggest three for +1 total
653.6G Delete all HDDs and no prewar construction pub -12 I suggest -24

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 04:36 pm: Edit

Tholian
653.7A Add one CW to production turn 12+ pub +12 I suggest +27

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 04:41 pm: Edit

Hydran
653.9A Create 2xLN, 2xHN mothball pub +6 I suggest +8
653.9B Delay Old Colonies one turn pub -5 I suggest -1
653.9C Turn 4 plus no Hydran can leave capital pub -15 I suggest -247 (assuming destruction of significant fraction of fleet)
653.9D Setup Old Colonies in capital pub +10 I suggest +2
653.9E Exchange 2xMB and all PWC for two capital SBs pub +3 I suggest +13
653.9G No true carriers replace with fusions pub -20 I suggest -11
653.9H Exchange 2xMB and all PWC CWs for two Lyran border BATS pub +5 I suggest +11
653.9I 2xLNs become survey permanently pub +6 I suggest -1
653.9J Can't really evaluate

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 04:49 pm: Edit

Lyran
653.11B Far Stars on map to start published +20 I suggest +4
653.11C Far Stars delayed one turn pub -20 I suggest -2
653.11E Add CC, CL, DD, FF to 0408 pub +3 I suggest +12
653.11F Can't really evaluate
653.11G Add LDR with CA, CL, DD, FF pub +4 I suggest +12
653.11H Can't really evaluate
653.11I Advance Far Stars CA, CL, DD, FF to 0103 published +2 I suggest +1
653.11K Can't really evaluate
653.11L Lyran BATS in 1208 and 1708 pub +8 I suggest +19
653.11M Add CV and 3xCVL and carrier conversions on turn 1 pub +20 I suggest +24
653.11N Replace 0212 and 0413 BATS with SBs no attack Hydrans pub +10 I suggest +31
653.11O Add a CA to each turn production pub +10 I suggest +66
653.11P Add one Spring turn of production to setup pub +20 I suggest +47

By Daniel G. Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 07:00 pm: Edit

653.11O Is this still a 0 cost option if you trade in a CW and a DW?

By Stewart W Frazier (Frazikar) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 09:04 pm: Edit

DGK, yeppers...

By Daniel G. Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 09:15 pm: Edit

Stewart,

I was asking Alan if it would remain so under his suggested changes. Personally with all the new goodies in PO, primarily minor ship yards, that is an incredible deal for the Lyrans.

By Thanasis Kinias (Tkinias) on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 10:17 pm: Edit

I wonder if assuming an at-start unit is available for the full 34 turns isn't overrating some options... I mean, what are the odds a given ship will survive for 34 turns? I'm not sure getting an extra X COMPOT on turn 1 would balance having 34X COMPOT delayed for one turn...

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 12:16 pm: Edit

DGK, that option would be a negative for the Lyrans using this calculation method. -2 to be exact.

By Daniel G. Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 05:44 pm: Edit

Some how I just don't think that that's fairly priced and I can't think of any opponent who would spend two points against me that way.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 05:55 pm: Edit

Looking it over, I think the proposed numbers are as out of whack as the originals.

There really is just no good way to balance them seperately. Far easier to put together a group of options that work together.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, May 29, 2015 - 02:00 pm: Edit

Balance Option idea:

HEAVY POLICE PRESENCE (+6?? / any empire): Due to a strong police presence, this empire enjoys the following benefits:
1) Allows double the number of police boats to be called up initially, per turn, and total count.
2) If a Star Base (in original home territory) or Major planet is attacked, instantly add 2-4 (d3+1) police boats to defend said base/planet. For smaller bases (BATS / MB) and planets (Minor / colony), add 1-3 boats. Surviving police boat go away (back to routine patrol) after the battle and thus don't count against call-up limits, but those destroyed do count against the total call-up limit.
3) At end of movement phase, instantly add 2-4 police boats to any home-territory hex containing non-friendly Orion ships. Deployment is optional after the die roll, so the Police won't be forced to fight when heavily outnumbered. As above, surviving boats go back on patrol after the combat round and thus don't count against call-up limits.
4) I know this one probably won't fly but here goes: Allow all police boats, up to four, to take only one command slot in a battle fleet. However, they work as a group and must all take damage together.


Garth L. Getgen

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, May 30, 2015 - 12:08 am: Edit

That's +20-30 or something. Makes taking down border BATS and undefended planets MUCH more difficult. Four POLs as one command slot is 12-16 compot - far too good imo.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, May 30, 2015 - 12:21 am: Edit

Garth,

My experience may not be typical, but I have to ask if more police ships were available earlier, say during an invasion of the empire by a hostile neighboring empire, wouldn't it be better to use the police force ships in a pinning mission?

Most police ships don't have high COMPOT, but they can pin enemy ships closer to the border and prevent (for a turn at the very least) the invaders from reaching all of their targets.

Sure, most or all police ships would die, but the sacrifice might allow for a more effective defense in the long run.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Friday, June 17, 2016 - 08:26 pm: Edit

653.1Z. Training Advantage (+10): Prime Team limit is increased by 20% [15 = +3, 10 = +2, 4 = +1].

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Monday, September 12, 2016 - 11:08 am: Edit

OFF-MAP BATS: Any empire with an off-map region may start the game with BATS in their receptive region. These may be upgraded to Starbases per normal rules after the empire is at war. The first BATS is +3 points, and +2 points for each thereafter. Limit: Lyran-5, Hydran-3, Kzinti-3, Gorn-3, Federation-4, ISC-8.

(Technically, for their empire to be symmetrical, the ISC should have eight more off-map BATS already.)


Garth L. Getgen