Jason, I'm not sure it's on the BBS anymore, but the game you would want to read is Against All Things Ending. Initially it was between me (Coalition) and Richard Eitzen. Richard abandoned it for real life reasons, but later it was taken up by Gary Quick. In that game, I waited till turn 10 to attack the Feds, but I took and consolidated both the Hydran and Zin capitals. I eventually won by 3 capital knockout when I took the Federation capital.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Monday, September 04, 2017 - 08:29 pm: Edit

Ted, Im reading through that now. Looks like you had some arguments over the rules around what happens with the Gorn if the Coalition dont attack the Feds, but the Feds attack either of the Coalition.

Not sure how that rule differs to now.

Also, having the player on one side change at a key point probably also throws a major spanner in to the game because of potentially very different play styles and plans.

Anyway, thanks for the heads-up. Its an interesting read.

Cheers.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 12:06 am: Edit

Jason, agree with all the above. But still, it did work that one time.

Given that it is my ONLY completed F&E game in 30 years.... not sure it's worth much in the way of data points.

Hoping to complete more games over the years ahead.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 07:01 pm: Edit

Nice one. There are not a lot of games which go through to the bitter end.

Really requires either 2 very stubborn people, or a very close game.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, September 06, 2017 - 09:12 am: Edit

Yeah, I will admit to giving up on too many games too early. But now I hope to count myself among the "stubborn" people so that even if I'm losing I will complete games.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 12:54 pm: Edit

A6 Hydran eco

The Hydrans built 2CU (one offmap, one at SB 0215), paid off most of their debt, called up an FLG, bought a command point (they didnt have any). They had two provinces, a disrupted province, one minor planet, a bunch of salvage proceeds (20ish EP) and their offmap stuff.

A POL is called up between the Hydran capital and a minor planet.

An SR was crippled by a monster.

Raids went well, a CL was destroyed at Pthaa III by a LGE (a DW remains). A HNG disrupts that province. Another LGE and prime team attack four coalition ships (led by a D7C) protecting a supply tug. An F5S is crippled in the reaction round and an E4 is crippled by an alternative attack.

The Coalition have no reserves covering most of this theatre (SB0411 is covered and has near 20 SEQ of defenders aside).

The Hydrans have a decent force at 0215 as well as a bunch of police type ships and have the survivors of the battle at 0617 in 0518.

In operational movement, a POL goes to Pthaa III (0416), moving away from the capital (and pinning the DW at 0416).

A lot of crippled ships from the battle at 0617 avoid the Coalition ships there and attack a picket force next to the Lyran Hydran NZ where they'll probably kill an FF.

Next two PV travel from 0215 to 0715 and fighter strike 0815 where a half dozen or so ships (previously raided by a LGE) reside, including a newly reacted E3A, a couple of cripples and a supply tug. Ted could have reacted to attack the PVs, but no reinforcements could possibly assist these units and the Hydrans would just have killed an additional Coalition ship for no Hydran losses anyway.

A THR leads 5 more POLs and an FLG on a circuitous route starting at 0215 and end up at 0416. These ships could have been pinned by Coalition forces at 0617, but it is possible that Ted saw that I was trying to dilute his force at 0617 (which I was) and did not do so. That DW in 0416 is doomed now.

After this, the remaining force in 0215 (A PAL and a good number of intact cruisers, a few DDs and a gaggle of FFs heads for 0617. Though pinnable, Ted does not do this, again probably not wanting to dilute his ships at 0617.

The remaining Hydran force (at 0518) goes to 0617 and Ted reacts some carrier groups off of 0718 to assist.

Ted only has one command rating 10 ship at 0617, he has a whole lot of FFs, E4s and F5s and not so many cruisers, with some CLs and DWs, his auxs left over from last turn's battle (they could not retrograde from 0617 in any case as nothing was near).

At various picket battles, the Coalition lose three more ships (DW E4 F5S). There is still one more to go where most likely a lone FF will be fighting a bunch of Hydran cripples. OUCH.

Currently fighting over 0617 has began. The Hydrans destroy an LAV, AD5 and F5E in return losing an LM. Compot was 128 to 99.

It remains to be seen if the Coalition wants to fight this out or bail.

The Hydrans are game for more, having declined retreat.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 03:35 pm: Edit

The Coalition is definitely game. In my experience, the Hydrans have to be stomped early, stomped often, and stomped hard. You destroy their pincount, destroy their cruisers, and generally make their long term effectiveness greatly reduced.

There is a steep butcher bill to do this, but the Coalition is always good destroying Hydran ships, particularly their cruisers. This makes it much easier to fight the two front war mid to late game.

The first round was a fluke, as it required the Hydran rolling box cars to bag the CV group. Them's the breaks.

But overall, each Hydran SEQ loss affects the Hydrans a substantially more than it does the Coalition, in terms of net percentage change to the relative navies.

I have a tac note on this somewhere in a past captain's log.

Don't get me wrong. I am not advocating that this is the *only* viable Coalition strategy. I just happen to like it, particularly because I have been in games where thee Hydran was allowed to grow and they became a *serious* threat on the western front.

"The only good Hydran is a dead Hydran."
-Admiral Ardak Kumerian

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, September 15, 2017 - 02:36 pm: Edit

After seven or eight rounds of battle, the Coalition has had enough at 0617 and retreat.

It was a nasty fight, generally the Coalition had around 100 compot and the Hydrans in the 130-140 range.

Noting that the Lyrans had one command 10 (a BT) and a CC and CF for command purposes, the Klingons just a D7C (and plenty of command rating 8), I pursued a strategy of reducing compot by first eliminating ships that could carry the Lyran ADM and allow his ability and then to destroy the BT.

When this occurred, Coalition compot (including 2DBB ships) would have been 88 or so, which is probably why they retreated at that point.

Hydran carriers came forward twice, once to work off 11 minus points, another time when a RN was killed by 24 damage points, with none left over (so the Hydrans could not cripple an HR for minus points).

The Hydrans had been relying on minus points to safely use 2 PAL on the line and a THR (via formation bonus).

Destroyed:

Coalition: BT CC D7C CF D6J AD5 F5E 2E4 2FF K-LAV K-SAV.

Hydran: LB LM 2RN HR 2CU.

Cripples: D7 D6 2D5 CW CL F5.

Coalition: THR 2HR KN DE.

In 0614 the Hydrans (all cripples) kill an FF.

By Bill Steele (Bill83501) on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 09:24 pm: Edit

The Kzinti sent the entire fleet, flush with fighters, to 1401. The coalition fought 1 round and retreated. The coalition directed a CL, the Kzinti directed a D6D. Then the Kzinti retrograded half the fleet to the marquis star base. On to turn 7! I have wanted to play with blue counters for 2 decades!

Dead:

Kzinti CL

Klingon D6D

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 08:20 pm: Edit

During A6, the Hydrans took back 0617. Moderate damage was done to the Hydrans, but overall it was a victory for them. After the battle, they withdrew to SB 0215 and planet 0519.

By Bill Steele (Bill83501) on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 08:55 pm: Edit

The Kzinti also took back 1401

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 03:45 pm: Edit

So - can the Alliance get enough to defend 1401 or 617?

Any Coalition Maulers left to hurt the Hydrans?

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 04:05 pm: Edit

Maybe and yes. I'll post a C7 recap later.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 05:26 pm: Edit

The Hydrans did leave ships to defend 0617 on C7 and the Coalition captured it without a fight. Planet 0519 and SB 0215 are still untaken by the Coaliion.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, October 30, 2017 - 12:54 pm: Edit

A7 is underway, but just econ so far. Here's a recap for C7.

The significant event this turn was that I decided to invade the Federation on C7. I agonized over this decision, because I knew that my initial attack would be pretty anemic at only about 80 ships - which is pathetic when attacking the Feds. However, I was setup to take the 7th fleet starbase, which *for sure* would be strongly reinforced by Home fleet if I did not attack C7, and I did not want to pay a heavy toll to take that hard point. Additionally, delaying against the Federation is dangerous, and I knew that I could mount a much more serious offensive on C9 after my cripples from the two capital assaults were repaired, and I would still have enough ships to put pressure on the Federation on C8. Of course, now that I have done it I'm having second thoughts and thinking maybe it would have been better to have delayed until C9 when I could have swarmed over with 200+ ships, but what is done is done - the die is cast!

Otherwise, this turn was pretty quiet. The only really significant battle was over the Federation 7th fleet Starbase, but 7th fleet is (initially) quite anemic, so destroying this starbase was as easy as I thought it would be.

I retook the Hydran capital because Richard didn't fight for it. He kept his navy split between SB 215 and planet 519, and with limited command and heavy ships (most crippled) I was unwilling to press the assault. So, I landed some 110 ships there, including reinforcements with some repaired command and heavy ships so it's not all small fry, and now I'm there to stay. However, other than a perfunctory "conquering" of the capital planets, essentially not a shot was fired in the HTO.

My options in the ZTO were also pretty limited. I *MIGHT* have been able to retake the Kzinti capital, but doing so would have routed ships away from the Federation, which I needed. Even then, success would not be guaranteed because most of what I had was riff-raff. I mean, taking BOTH the Hydran and Kzinti capitals on the same turn (C6) may be a pretty big accomplishment in the world of F&E, but doing so came at a heavy, heavy price in terms of cripples and available heavy ships for continuing operations.

So, instead I elected to pin the 54 SEQ at Marquis SB at 1704. I also pinned one of the Fed reserves at Fed BATS 2308 with enough ships to actually take the defended BATS. I also used standard F&E operational movement tactics (moving units far back first, keeping enough unmoved units in reserve to prevent him from reacting off of the 3rd and 4th starbases) to attack most of the Fed border BATS along the FTO. BATS 2004 to 2303 are all now gone, along with Kzin BATS 1803 and 1902. I attacked Dmitris (1802), but a Zin off-map reserved saved the planet. I took Western Words (minor planet at 2106) - and this was the ONLY planet I conquered in the Federation. I attacked Cygnus (major at 2306), but a Fed reserve from 4th fleet saved it. Nevertheless, I did have enough to go in with a mauler and I reduced the PDUs from 4 to 1 at the expense of the mauler itself.

In the Southern FTO, I wanted to take *no* risk that 7th fleet SB at 2915 would remain standing, so I did not attack border BATS or planets there (note that I won both neutral worlds for the Empire through diplomacy). Thus, BATS and planets south of 2414 remain untouched.

This lead to my one mistake. As usual I sent an E4 to Orion to make it go neutral. Well, that worked fine while I had a supply line to Orion. However, the remains of the 7th fleet retreated to 2814. This well placed retreat, combined with my failure to take planets or BATS in the southern FTO, cut off a supply route from Klingon territory to Orion. As a result, not only will Orion be Federation again on A7, but the E4 will be automatically captured - and have accomplished nothing but the loss of 1 SEQ and the assignment of the Klingon division commander to captain a D6J penal cruiser.

Between new construction and cripple repairs on C7, I now have enough to reinforce the Federation border with a chain of reserves and to put enough firepower in the HTO and the ZTO to hold or reconquer those capitals on C8. However, a really serious invasion of the Federation cannot take place until C9, because on C7 I moved the massive number of cripples I generated on the C6 capital assaults around. On C8 they will be repaired and redeployed with strategic movement, but they will not actually be fighting until C9. With C10 will come the Romulan invasion and a deeper penetration of Federation space, while consolidating holdings in the ZTO and HTO.

At least that is the plan. Somehow I think Bill and Richard will have something to say about that!

Anyway, A7 is now underway. Econ was pretty predictable. The Hydrans and Kzinti repaired a few ships, dumped a bunch in the depot, built a couple of frigates, and each worked on medium shipyards (now 2nd turn for each). The Federation built their anemic A7 load, but overbuilt *23* frigates. That's what is scary to me. If I dont' reduce the Fed economy quickly (and that can't *really* happen till C9) I'll get overwhelmed! Then again, that's really the way F&E grand campaign is designed to work, yes?

The Alliance hasn't announced raids yet.

As for what they plan on doing this turn - dunno. I doubt the Hydrans would be willing to spend the force required to attempt to retake the capital, but because most of those forces are riff-raff, maybe they will. They could take Red Claw starbase, but again they would pay in green blood so I'm not sure they are willing to do that. Perhaps they will continue to consolidate. Dunno.

The Kzinti have some more options. There's enough Fed and Zin forces to conduct some offensive operations, particularly in the northeastern Klingon space where I expect to lose several BATS. The third fleet may be able to bag a few Klingon BATS, or perhaps a planet or two. My starbases *should* be safe.

Only time will tell.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, October 30, 2017 - 04:49 pm: Edit

Tough decision to make a turn 7 invasion..

It's a shame the rule has so many 'negative' effects on the Federation if they are not at war as either they get heavily attacked on turn 7 or crushed on turn 10.

With all those overbuilt FF - it will give the Feds some defence in depth...

On the Hydrans - surely burning fighters for more Coalition cripples over 617 is the way to go?

(Coalition probably will not want to direct too much - it extends the fight, thereby helping the Alliance more - and if it's an even battle - the Hydrans could win).

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, October 30, 2017 - 05:20 pm: Edit

A7 Hydrans have 21 EP offmap and 7 EP of income on map. They also get the guild treasury. They build 2CU, repair a DG and convert it to do survey and also repair a an SR and 4 DEs(they continue work on a medium shipyard and CW-MSY).

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, October 30, 2017 - 05:25 pm: Edit

The Hydrans have plans for this turn. Stay tuned.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, October 30, 2017 - 06:29 pm: Edit

Oh, I have a different view of trading Hydran fighters for cripples. Yes, it's painful and expensive. However, personally I would love it if Richard offered me an extended slugfest anywhere other than over a starbase. Each round I kill a ship, and even if he is also killing ships, each Hydran SEQ I kill is a significantly higher percentage of the Hydran navy over the Klingon/Lyran navies. Yes, I know this play into how the Federation is handled, but I am a big believer in stomping the Hydrans *hard* and keeping them down. Hydran hybrid lines are extremely dangerous and could pose an incredible threat to the Coalition just at those times that the Federation needs the most attention. So, yeah, I'm happy to crush as many Hydrans as possible, particularly when the lack the cash and shipyards to replace losses - even if they are just FFs.

@Richard: Shh. Did you smell that?

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Monday, October 30, 2017 - 07:10 pm: Edit

In my game against Peter he was targeting my RN every round. I had made up my mind on how many I was willing to lose before I stopped putting them on the line and moving to HR and LN.

He also took out a few CR9 cruisers, but I never put my LGE on the line. Nor will I. Those things are just such incredible ships.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, December 13, 2017 - 05:24 pm: Edit

We're currently on Coalition turn 8.

Do you remember what happened on A7 Ted?

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, December 14, 2017 - 05:30 pm: Edit

A7 Synopsis:

HTO: The Hydrans send a small force into Lyran territory (about 16 ships), occupying 3 provinces and threatening deeper Lyran targets. The Hydrans also make an abortive attack on Red Claw starbase; probably just a pinning force. Hydrans also try to take planet 416 (Pythaa), but get spanked by a large Coalition reserve for the efforts.

ZTO: The Kzinti kill a bunch of pickets and retake their captured planets. They hold onto the old capital this turn and maintain a large fleet on Marquis Starbase. They manage to destroy Klingon BATS 1807. (Klingons only have 3 border BATS now: 906, 1307, and 1707).

FTO: The Federation helps with destroying BATS 1807 and retakes Western Worlds (2106) and kills a bunch of pickets. In the south they destroy BATS 2014 and threaten Walkuria (1916) and Bezwell Index (2214; Klingon by Choice) - but Klingon reserves drive them away from the planets. Federation sets up strong reserves.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, December 14, 2017 - 05:38 pm: Edit

We are now up to C8 combat. Klingons and Lyrans maximize debt - time to pay the butcher bill! Still build everything, but Klingons have to down build C8 to F5 to pay for necessary repairs, even with maximum debt.

During combat the Klingons destroy Fed BATS 2414, 2615, 2816, 3016, and use a convoy to establish a supply path to the Romulans. Klingons also take Arcturus (2715) and force the Orion province to go neutral again. BATS 2612 is threatened, but saved by Reserve. The Klingons also take Western Worlds again with a token force, and occupy a few more provinces.

The main action is that the Klingons send 91 SEQ to Starbase 2211 despite being reinforced by two strong reserves, this starbase is about to go down at HIGH cost to the Klingons.

In the ZTO, the KLingons retake 1202 and 1501, and a few provinces, but the Kzinti save 1504 and 1101 with reserves. The rest of Coalition forces leave Marquis SB alone, and instead pile into the old capital at 1401 to try to deprive the Kzinti of the EPs and force more cripples they will have a hard time paying for.

The HTO sees major action at SB 215; which is the last on-map Hydran starbase. It went down for rather extreme Coalition casualties (more than 40 ships crippled), but Hydrans suffer something like 15 SEQ in losses due to directed damage, much of that in cruisers. Lyran new construction drives the Hydran incursion fleet back a hex and blocks its path to the capital. With SB215 down, this fleet in 312 is now out of supply, but that will likely be rectified by a supply tug of the remains of Home fleet, now in 116.

I did not attack planet 519 (which will have to wait till C9 at the earliest).

The only remaining combats are the last stages of SB assault 2211 and then the assault on the old Kzinti capital at 1401.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, December 14, 2017 - 07:32 pm: Edit

Thanks for the write up Ted!

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, December 14, 2017 - 09:08 pm: Edit

Privately Richard pointed out that the convoy will not allow diplomatic EPs to flow from Roms to Klingons. I messed that up!

Battle at Fed SB 2211 is essentially over. The third fleet Admiral views the destruction of the starbase receding as his flagship flees....