Seeking clarification:
IN the Romulan OOB, there is a listing for an Engineer Regiment in the Y168 Home Fleet resources. Is this regiment active in Y168?

(541.11) Initial: All races can activate one engineer regiment (for free) on the first turn they are actually “at war” (not just on a wartime economy). All engineer regiments are created or activated in the capital hex.

Is this a SECOND Engineer Regiment?

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 07:55 pm: Edit

The Romulans are not at war in Y168 (regular GW scenario) they are on a wartime economy. The one listed in OB in the initial engineer regiment.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, August 07, 2018 - 03:17 pm: Edit

Hey, I'm having trouble finding the answer to this 2015 question. Maybe I'm blind - but I don't see the answer. Was it answered on a CL but not on this website? The question exactly matches a situation I'm in, so inquiring minds would like to know!


By Matthew Smith (Mgsmith67) on Sunday, May 10, 2015 - 09:23 am: Edit

I have a question about 203.51 and 205.32.

FEDS ruled on 12/29/12 that a pinned ship immediately stops all movement. The phasing player's only choice is to decide which ship that is.

So, here's the question:

It is the Alliance turn.

A large Lyran force is in 1001 with a scout. One Lyran FF is in 1202, and a large Klingon force is in 1403, but lacks a scout. The Lyrans are attempting to upgrade a MB->BATS at 1105.

The Kzinti wish to stop the base upgrade, and have sufficient ships available in the capital to do so, but not if pinned by either the large force in 1001 or the large force in 1403.

They plan to enter the 2-hex reaction range of 1001 only briefly, at 1202, and then turn South to continue on to 1105.

As they enter 1202, the Lyran player announces "you must leave one ship behind, and it immediately ceases all movement. Since you have a ship that has ceased movement, then by 205.32, I can react two hexes, and I do so, pinning your entire force."

The Kzinti player says "No, I get to chose when that ship stops, and the remainder of my ships surely get an opportunity to leave before your second pulse of reaction."


Which player is correct?

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Tuesday, August 07, 2018 - 07:42 pm: Edit

Unofficial answer - the Kzinti. The only time one can move both reaction hexes at once is on the opponents final movement pulse [(205.32) - written as sixth but with new ships with a seventh (F, X) and one with an eighth (FDX), its a small needed change].

(203.32) also states that these reaction movements are '...moved at separate times (after each hex of enemy movement)."

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, August 07, 2018 - 08:26 pm: Edit

Dunno. Richard Eitzen thought otherwise in our game. He's really good about the rules, so he might have the ruling.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, August 07, 2018 - 09:02 pm: Edit

No no, I wasn't paying attention and said that you were correct (once I properly understood what was going on). I was reacting to what I thought was a 'stop movement', but it was just a pin (which doesn't itself provoke reaction). Sorry for any confusion.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, August 07, 2018 - 09:30 pm: Edit

Ted/Richard: Are we good here then? Is the question withdrawn?

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, August 07, 2018 - 10:02 pm: Edit

Chuck, no.

Actually, it's not really a Q&A. It's a request for an A to a past Q!

Basically, I found a question posed back in 2015. I couldn't find the answer in the Q&A archives (maybe I'm an idiot?)

I thought maybe the issue was resolved in a Captain's Log and never actually reported here on the BBS. I was hoping just to track down the answer that had already been given!

Thanks!
-T

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, August 07, 2018 - 10:04 pm: Edit

Richard, agree - there was no disagreement between us. I was more just trying to find the official answer to that Q.

Which is why I'm here in "discussions" rather than in the Q&A itself.

-T

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, August 07, 2018 - 11:59 pm: Edit

We're fine. We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?

By Patrick Sledge (Decius) on Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 08:34 am: Edit

I think (203.44) is the relevant rule for why the Kzinti player, in the scenario described, is correct.

When the hex with the Lyran is entered, the Kzinti player is forced to divide into two sub-stacks (one of ships whose only option is 'be pinned' and one of ships which still have movement options). The phasing player gets to choose which of those sub-stacks takes its action first, and in this case will obviously choose to take action with the sub-stack that still has movement options.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 11:27 am: Edit

This is not correct; pinned ships can take no action and in any case the act of being pinned doesn't provoke reaction.

The phasing player at that point can only proceed to deal with the moving stack in some way.

By Patrick Sledge (Decius) on Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 12:42 pm: Edit

Richard: Interesting that we seem to agree on the ‘what’ but not the ‘why’.

It seems to me the sequence is this:
Kzinti stack moves into 1202.
Lyran in 1001 may react one hex to the movement
Kzinti is forced to split stack using 203.44
Kzinti player chooses to continue with the substack capable of movement (and presumably moves onward to 1105)
Kzinti player then must resolve the other substack (presumably one ship left behind in 1202)
At this point, the Lyran may then react into 1202 (Allowed by 205.32 as it is the conclusion of that sub-stack’s movement)

This is the exact same set of options if the Kzinti had voluntarily elected to leave a ship in 1202 (rather than being forced by pinning requirements), or if they chose to leave additional ship(s) in 1202 beyond what was pinned.

The only difference is that the pinned ship, by rule, may take no other action than ‘stop and be pinned’ (where a ship left behind voluntarily would obviously have more options)

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 12:52 pm: Edit

It works like this:

1) Kzinti stack moves to 1202.

2) Coalition in 1001 use extended reaction and move to 1102.

3) Kzintis must now resolve the pinning calculation.

4) The Kzinti may then proceed with operational movement.

Upon the stack of Kzinti units (currently moving stack is in 1202) expending a movement point or stopping, the Coalition may complete the reaction from 1001 by moving a second hex from 1102 to 1202. If they do not do this now, they may not do it later unless additional reaction opportunities are presented.

Note that the pinned Kzinti unit in 1202 will not move further and does not provide a reaction opportunity. It does not still need to be resolved, this was done in step 3 above.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 12:59 pm: Edit

How about... not arguing about it and instead finding the ANSWER THAT FEDS ALREADY SHOULD HAVE GIVEN.

Assuming he has....

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 01:07 pm: Edit

Oh I dunno where that answer might be, but the Kzinti player is right. :p

By Patrick Sledge (Decius) on Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 01:12 pm: Edit

Ted: I took a look but could not find it before I submitted my response. Either way, concur with Richard, the Kzinti are right. The fun is at the margins of how they’re right

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 01:19 pm: Edit

Yeah, I agree that Johnson agrees that Johnson is right.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 01:25 pm: Edit

Never mind that ... here comes Mongo!

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 01:32 pm: Edit

Candy-gram for Mongo!

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, August 17, 2018 - 10:05 am: Edit

Question was originally asked in 2005...


To try to clean that up:

Question #2: When a force is leaving behind a part of a stack, when exactly does reaction to the force that ended movement? Before the main force continues on (thus is still in the hex of the force that stopped movement), or is it that the main force moves on, thus showing the secondary force has ended movement, which allow reaction to the secondary force after the main force has continued on?

ANSWER to #2: When you split a stack into substacks, you decide in what order to move the substacks (or not move them for that matter). So if you split off a single ship (the DD in your example), you have two options. You can finish moving the substack consisting of the DD first, which would consist of declaring its movement over (and the enemy could then react into the hex in response to the DD using up its remaining movement points in that hex), and then you could move the substack consisting of the rest of the fleet (of course now some or all of this substack may not be able to move due to pinning). OR do it the other way around, after splitting the stack you can move the substack consisting of the majority of the fleet first, and since you are moving away from the enemy this allows no reaction, after that substack is done you must go back to the substack consisting of the DD and resolve its remaining movement by declaring it is done moving which would allow reaction into the DD's hex at that point. When you split a stack into substacks you decide what order to move the substacks in, and the enemy can react only to the currently moving substack (since he doesn't know what you will be doing with the other substacks until you actually do it). You must move all substacks (or declare their movement over) of a given stack before moving to a different stack. This is rule (203.44).

I think I know the answer by reading the section on splitting sub stacks carefully, but my Gorn opponent doesn't agree with me.

Edit: It should also be noted that if reaction does not occur until after the main force continues on to 4213, then an argument could be made that the next stack has started it's move, thus ending any possible reaction to the last stack, and so the Romulans could not react to the DD in 4212 at all. (Which is why I think reaction to the DD would occur before the main stack would have moved from the hex.)

Thanks for you help, and sorry for such a complicated scenario.

ANSWER: The point is that when you split a stack into substacks with the intention of leaving a unit behind, you don't actually have to declare that given unit is ceasing movement until after the other substacks are done moving. For all the enemy knows, the DD is going to move another direction after the bulk of your forces reaches its destination.

From Q & A 2005 Archive Folder.

So the answer is, the Kzinti 'moving' Sub Stack gets to move prior to the 'pinned' Sub Stack gets reacted on - should the Kzinti player want to do so.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, August 17, 2018 - 12:00 pm: Edit

Thanks Paul!

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Friday, October 05, 2018 - 07:13 pm: Edit

Q526.315 If a base has sent its fighters into another battle hex, but that battle hex has not been resolved before the battle at the base can a FCR transfer its fighters to base after the approach battle in the base hex?

First thought is no as the FCR cannot accept the fighters back at the end of the battle (the base is still responsible for its original fighters).

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Friday, October 05, 2018 - 07:15 pm: Edit

Stew, I would agree, but at the same time the non-base player has enough firepower to win both hexes.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, October 05, 2018 - 08:12 pm: Edit

There is no rule that the base is responsible for its own fighters.

I think that you can have the FCR transfer fighter factors to the base in this case, and that any attrition factors that cannot transfer to a home at the end of the resolution of an appropriate battle hex are lost unless there are specific rules saying otherwise.

The firepower of the non-base player is irrelevent to the rules resolution process (except perhaps in the case of determing eligibility of a MON's retreat).