Umm...Tim...

When you are attacking Tholian webs, ships outside the web can *either* contribute EW or pull ships out of the web. They can't do both (i.e. you can't put 3xD6S "outside the web", have them contribute +12EW, and then also have them pull three cripples out of the web). There is no requirement for scouts to be in the web to use their scout channels.

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Quote:

(512.31) DESIGNATION: Ships of the attacking battle force are designated as "in the web" or not when battle forces are revealed. Each ship must also designate at the time of this assignment if it is assigned the tow ship mission under (512.32) or some other legal mission it is permitted to perform; it cannot do both missions. (From CL52, pg107)

(512.33) SCOUTS: Scouts in the Battle Force but not in the web can use their EW factors. This is also true of the “free scout” (308.53).

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By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, May 11, 2018 - 06:50 pm: Edit

Well, I didn't have the details right - but the effect is the same. You can't contribute EW and pull ships from the web at the same time. This change is what forces the greater kill count.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, May 11, 2018 - 07:04 pm: Edit

Sorry, I thought that you might have been under the impression that in order to get any scout EW that the scouts must be in the web.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, May 11, 2018 - 09:01 pm: Edit

I was under that impression, so like I said I didn't have the details right. That may have changed how I did the battle somewhat, but probably not that much. You're still left with the decision to put more compot/EW on the line or have rescue ships to save cripples. At least at the initial stages of *this* assault, facing such a massive compot, I knew I was going to have to be killing large number of ships anyway... And the extra damage done at the beginning helped lessen the damage later due to the Tholians having few reserves.

Anyway, it all worked out. In fact, I think the rule change is probably good for the game. Otherwise, you more-or-less avoid that painful choice of effectiveness on the line versus rescue ships.

By Bill Steele (Bill83501) on Sunday, May 13, 2018 - 09:26 pm: Edit

Playing Tholians for the first time was a trip! Thanks Ted. Saying, "I disrupt the SAF, take 102 more damage" was fun! Those first 3 rolls, 5,6,4 were brutal. The Pinwheel, while useful if SFB, are useless in F&E

By Bill Steele (Bill83501) on Sunday, May 13, 2018 - 11:17 pm: Edit

Now what happens when the Seltorian's show up?

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Sunday, May 13, 2018 - 11:27 pm: Edit

I can't remember, but that question was asked and answered the last time I blasted the Tholians. I'm pretty sure that so long there is a single Tholian left the Selts show up and go after them. Otherwise, the Selts just show up and then move on.

By Bill Steele (Bill83501) on Sunday, May 13, 2018 - 11:58 pm: Edit

Wouldn't they want to kill the Klingon slaves? wouldn't the Klingons tell them to bugger off?

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, May 14, 2018 - 01:39 am: Edit

"The only good Tholian is a dead Tholian."

--Ardak Kumerian

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, May 14, 2018 - 08:58 am: Edit

The Seltorians will go after Tholian units on map, wherever they might be. How successful the Seltorians will be is an entirely different question (what do you mean they're hiding in the Kzinti offmap...).

Pinwheels can be quite useful. Yes.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, July 07, 2018 - 07:46 pm: Edit

It is currently the end of C11, the Coalition drove the Hydrans off their remaining offmap planets, killing 3 Hydran DD most notably for not much damage in returns. The Hydrans are currently regrouping. It will remain to be see what they do on A11.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Saturday, July 07, 2018 - 11:55 pm: Edit

This turn was relatively eventful for relatively little cost - mostly because I avoided the 80 ships sitting on Federation 6th fleet SB and used maneuvering to discourage reactions in the FTO. The result is that the Fed border stations and two planets on the RTO are now in Romulan hands. The Klingons took another planet in the west. The Kzinti got kicked offmap, except for 1202 and 1802 where Kzinti reserves saved the day from small coalition squads. The Hydrans face overwhelming superiority in both numbers and quality.

The Hydrans are NOT going to retake their capital again - SO SAY WE ALL!!!

Bloody Hydrans....

Losses were relatively minor, and maybe only a dozen EPs in cripples this turn. However, the Alliance counter attack might push me back some. Turn 12, when the Gorn come in, will make things much more interesting for the Alliance.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, August 17, 2018 - 12:58 pm: Edit

Combat rages. The Hydran theatre has finished combat, some damage inflicted against them in a few battle hexes. The Lyrans did lose a DNL raiding 0119 against a reacting Paladin.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, August 17, 2018 - 01:33 pm: Edit

Major Romulan assault at 3611. Feds have lost 2*DNL, CS, FF, FFE, DD due to mauling. Roms have *A LOT* of cripples, but no kills yet, and the Feds have a fair amount of cripples too. As of beginning of round 10 the SB has 7*SIDS (all self taken).

Combat continues.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, August 26, 2018 - 09:55 pm: Edit

C12 is done, perhaps Ted will go over the highlights.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, August 26, 2018 - 09:59 pm: Edit

A12 Hydran eco
The Hydrans had salvaged a PGS and a couple FFs for 3 EP.
Hydrans collect 2 EP from on map, have found 5 provinces and a colony and has about a dozen EPs left from last turn.


Depot finishes repair on THR KN CU.

Hydrans convert a PAL and HN to a ID and AH.
Hydrans guild donated a PGR.

Hydran medium shipyard produces TG NEC (subbing for the DN and CA slots), the MSYs produce an NEC and AH and the SB produces an AH. A pol is called up on map (stacked with over a dozen other pol hulls plus a fleet of naval warships), a PT is called up and a scout pallet is also constructed. The Hydans are now on their third turn of a second CW msy.

The Hydrans finally refill their FCP pod (emptied on C8) and have around 8 EP left.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, August 27, 2018 - 09:33 am: Edit

Per Richard's econ form he sent me the Hydrans have more like 25 EPs to spare.... But, yeah.

Mostly C12 was quiet, with one major exception. As mentioned above, there was a major starabase assault over Federation starbase 3611. After some ten or twelve rounds of combat it went down. Somewhere between half and a third of the entire Romulan navy was crippled to make that a reality. No Romulan kills as a result of Bill's decision not to direct on anything, but at the same time it cost me dearly in terms of cripples and raw econ (and the Roms are not exactly swimming in money). The Feds lost the ships reported above, as after the last directed kill I did, I directed once more to kill 10 of 12 remaining fighters, and after that I just let the damage fall to ensure that I would take the hex. Federation cripples are significant, but modest in comparison on account of fighting over a SB and me directing.

Mostly what I did was retake more territory, and I pushed back the Hydrans a bit. The Federation econ is now significantly weakened and it appears the Feds are now going into extra economic exhaustion on account of their debt. I am not in any way threatening the northern breadbasket, but East, West, and Southern Federation space is largely in Coalition hands.

I setup a MB in the Hydran capital. I also setup Klingon MBs at the far southwest Romulan starbase. I'm dismantling the MB at 2717.

Here come the Gorns!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_O1QKQCsGs

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Tuesday, August 28, 2018 - 09:51 pm: Edit

I am here, at Richard's invite, to donate an EP to a player. Ted, the EP is yours! :D

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, August 29, 2018 - 12:41 am: Edit

Thanks. Thanks a lot.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 - 12:04 pm: Edit

A12 is complete.

The Gorns attacked, of course, and with their Federation allies captured Helvetia (Romulan by diplomacy). They threatened several other Rom planets, but they were saved by reserves. 2-3 BATS went down. The Feds regained most of the Western territory lost to the Roms on C12.

Alliance offensives were largely limited to the East. In the West, the Feds turtled up and mostly shifted resources to the Eastern Romulan frontier. The Kzinti also made a stronger on-map presence, leaving a decent fleet (some 30-40 ships) on 1001 to threaten Red Claw starbase, and put another 30 or so ships on Fed 4th fleet SB to defend it so the Feds could shift units to the RTO.

The Hydrans were quiet, no fighting. They redployed themselves so as to be able to threaten EB SB on A13.

Note that Hydran and Kzinti replacement shipyards are done, but EPs are in short supply....

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 - 12:11 pm: Edit

C13 begins.

The B10AA Invincible Lives!!!! (Cue original Star Trek menace music!). The first of two B10s roll off the assembly line, costing the Klingon 19 EPs (5 for the final roll, 6 for the two stasis conversions at 2 capital SBs, and 8 for its fighters) - but the final bill for this monster is a whopping 79 EPs! Was it worth it???? Sure has some pretty good propaganda value on the 10:00 news!!!

Despite this cost, the Klingons come close to paying off their national debt (pay 2, only 10 debt left). The Lyrans completely pay off their debt this turn (the last 12 EPs), tearing up their note with great gusto. However, the Romulans go even deeper into hawk by another 15 EPs (bringing their debt to 42).

All three empires build a full load of ships. Klingon and Lyran repairs are light (quiet last turn), but the Romulans spend 50+EPs on repairs (and still have a large cripple backlog due to the brutal SB fight over Fed 6th fleet SB).

The Klingons and Lyrans notably both upgrade MB to BATS (with fighters) at 617 over the Klingon High Chancellor's newest palace. The Hydrans watch and fume helplessly, but scheme as they always do.

The former Klingon colonies at Tholia are now producing income (and did last turn too), helping to drive the Coalition booming economy.

More action to come later.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 - 04:58 pm: Edit

One word on the B10 vs cost: COMPOT.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 - 05:09 pm: Edit

Amen, brother! I say, let me hear an AMEN!

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 - 05:10 pm: Edit

May I suggest an all B-10 building program.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 - 05:40 pm: Edit

Heh. Not within build limits. Still need the "fluff" as well to keep away the riff-raff. ;)