Chris: the flagship can come from any empire in the hex on that side, but at least half the ships composing the battle force must be of that empire. There are twiddly bits to this rule, keep in mind.

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Wednesday, December 12, 2018 - 11:33 pm: Edit

We'll see how the next few rounds go but I don't think this is going to be that big a deal. I mean, long term losing 2 C8's this round is going to be more annoying fighting multiple fights versus the Feds and not having enough CR10 ships there, also, I'm going to think hard about whether I put my other C8 commanding a force against the Hydrans next turn.

Next round, I'm going to lose a ship from my force because my command rating drops, and that ships is a C8 so my compot will drop by 12 pts, from about 115 to 103. That 12 pts will mean next round I will do 12 * 40% (we're rolling big numbers right now at BIR 10) or 4 or 5 less damage to the Kzin. This round I did 52 damage to the kzin (I got a 6 on the roll, but average roll would have been 46 points.

The number that matters though is that I think the Kzin runs after 200 more points of damage. Actually, I think he may run before that or his cripple stack off map is going to be larger than he can deal with. With his plan of killing my command ships he will drop my compot another 7 pts next round (spends 54 to kill a DN in the form, I replace the DN with a crippled D7C and command the same number of ships as the klingons have spent a command point so a D7C with command pt is same CR as a DN). I still have a compot between 100 and 110 and I do 40%. So, this means that rather than lasting 4 rounds he lasts 5 rounds before I do 200 pts damage and he runs. If he kills the D7C for 15 pts, I replace it with another crippled D7C. I have 4 of them here. Or I just command out of a D7 and it takes me 6 rounds rather than 5. If he'd done this round 1 and 2 it may have impacted me more, then we would have had 15 or 16 rounds of combat where I'm missing force. Right now, I think it's too late to really matter.

However the Kzin spent 54 damage taking out a ship that only cripples for 12. So that was 42 damage I never took on D7's, CW's, DW's, D6D's. My cripple pile is going to be smaller than it otherwise would have been. Same thing happens next round if he goes after a DN. Also, yes, I have built/converted either DN/BC or DN/DN every turn for the Lyrans, and have enough crippled CL/CA's read at the Lyran homeworlds that they will keep doing that for the foreseeable future.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, December 14, 2018 - 03:23 pm: Edit

Kzintai fall on CT4 after 21 rounds of brutal combat. Plenty of armchair quarterbacking to do, but keep in mind decisions were made round by round.

Kzinti KIA: DN, CC, EFF, LAV, SAV, SAD (6 SEQ)

Kzinti WIA: TGC+AA, 2*DNL, 3*CC, 4*BC, 2*BF, 3*CM, 4*CL, 2*FFK, 4*FF, 3*CVS, 2*TGC+BB, 3*CVL, TGT+BB, 3*CVE, 2*MEC, 4*CLE, 3*FKE, 5*EFF, FCR, DF, 4*SF, CLG, 2*FFG, 2*FFT, TGA (CAPTURED KLINGON UNIT).

Add to this prior cripple backlog of 2*BC, 3*CL, FFK, CLE, 2*EFF, FFT

Net Kzinti cripple load: 232 (116 EPs).

Bulk of Kzinti navy is crippled. Excluding AUXes and POLs and Survey, this is what the Zin have left right now uncrippled at the end CT4: DN, CC, BC, CL, 3*FF, 2*CVS, CVE, DDV, DDE, EFF, 2*FCR, CD, SDF, 2*DF, TGT+S, SF, FFG.


Klingon KIA: PT, 2*C8, 2*D7C, D6M, FD7, F5L, F5, CVT, D6V, 4*E4A, D6G, TGA+LL, D6J, F5J, LAV, SAF (22.67 SEQ). Add to this kills from the HTO, including D6M, F5L, F5 (totaling 25.67 SEQ).

Klingon WIA: TGA+AA, C5, 2*D7C, 3*D6M, 8*D7, 19*D5, 3*F5L, 15*F5, D6D, 2*D6S, 2*D5S, F5S (183 repair capacity, 91.5 EPs)

Lyran KIA: MMG, PT, 2*DN, CA, SAF (3 SEQ)

Lyran WIA: 3*DN, 2*TGC+A, 2*BC, DNL, 4*CC, 3*CA, 14*CW, 3*CL, 7*DW, 3*DD, 3*DWS, 2*SC, DDG (162 capacity, 81 EPs).

Net Coalition cripple load JUST FOR THE ZIN CAPITAL ASSAULT: 345 capacity/ 172.5 EPs.


From earlier in the turn, Hydran losses:

KIA: 2*RN, 2*TR, CU, HN, POL (8.67 SEQ)

WIA: LGE, 2*DG, 3*KN, 5*LN, 2*CR, CU, 4*HN, PGS, LNG (59 CAPACITY, 29.5 EPs).


NET SEQ losses this turn are 14.67 Alliance, 25.67 Coalition.

The Kzinti cripple load is very large (232/116 EP); however, much of that is going to be saved through the depot. Actual load... maybe 50-67% of that value.

I've looked into the rest of the Coalition losses.

NOT including the above numbers..., these are losses to date:

Klingon KIA: D7A, 3*D6M, D5, 2*F5, E4, E4A, D6J, E4G, 2*TGA, SAV (14 SEQ).

Lyran KIA: 2*CA, 3*CW, 2*CL, DD, FF, SC, TGC, LAV, SAV, FHL (14 SEQ).

CURRENT COALITION CRIPPLE LOAD - *NOT* INCLUDING ABOVE NUMBERS (does not count cripples repaired on prior turns).

KLINGON WIA: 2*D7C, 2*D7, 7*D6, 4*F5L, 21*F5, 6*E4, D6V, 2*E4A, TGA+BB, 2*F5S, F5G, SAV (133 CAPACITY, 66.5 EP).

LYRAN WIA: CC, 2*CA, CF, CW, 6*CL, 2*DW, 7*DD, 6*FF, 2*DDG (73 CAPACITY, 36.5 EP).


The Grand total CURRENT Coalition cripple load is 551 capacity/ 275.5 EPs!!!!

For comparison: Grand total CURRENT Alliance cripple load: 291/ 145.5 EP (again, I'll be using the depot liberally, so less than that). Also, almost all of this is Kzinti, so the Hydrans are in good shape.

Grand total Coalition losses KIA to date: 61.67

Grand total Alliance losses KIA to date: 40.17

Gives you a scale of the ferocity of the fighting in this game...


Out of curiosity, I went back and looked at EPs actually spent on repairing stuff from C2-C4.

Coalition: Klingons spent 20+28. Lyrans spent 6+56.5+26.5. Grand total EPs spent: 137 EPs, representing 274 repair capacity (roughly 68 cruiser equivalents crippled).

Alliance: Kzinti (only) spent 22+9 = 31 EPs , representing 62 repair capacity (roughly 15.5 cruiser equivalents crippled).

Does not count very liberal Kzinti use of the depot.

If the Coalition were to actually pay to repair everything to date, the grand total repair bill would be 412.5 EPs!!!!!!! That's almost 2 turns of the combined total economy of the Klingons and Hydrans!

So, combat has been NASTY in this game!

Overall, there's an argument to be made that I've fought too hard as the Alliance. Losing 40 SEQ is not good, as a 1.5/1 loss ratio favors the Coalition at this stage of the game.

That being said, the bulk of the COALITION navy is crippled. In the ZTO a mere wisp of 75 SEQ remains uncrippled, compared to the mighty armada of some 220 SEQ that initially went into 1401 this turn.

In the HTO, Only 94 uncrippled Coalition units remain. They face 69 uncrippled Hydrans, plus whatever I can repair this turn.

Of course, the Coalition has 24 SEQ of Lyrans and 31 SEQ of new builds/ repairs that can strat around and form reserves. So, he can easily maintain an uneasy dominance over the Hydrans for A4. However, some of those (and mostly good stuff) will have to go to the ZTO if he expects to hold 1401 this coming Alliance turn. While the Zin are very bloodied, what he has left in the Kzinti capital only amounts to 43 SEQ, and almost all of that is riff-raff. Still, with only 25 uncrippled ships, plus what the Kzinti can repair, it would probably only take 1-2 reserves to hold the capital.

Anyway, like I said, there's an argument to be made that I've paid too heavy a price to fight this hard. However, the Hydran capital is essentially safe. Even if he sent ALL 55 new/repaired Coalition units to the HTO, he'd only have about 150 SEQ against some 75 SEQ (after my repairs) - and that is just not enough to take a capital, especially when the bulk of his cruisers were just crippled over the Kzinti capital. It *is* enough, however, to control the Hydrans and do some more damage.

It *is* possible for him, however, to take the Hydran capital by CT7. However, doing so would make the initial Fed attack weaker.

I think it more likely he will have everything repaired and ready for an overwhelming Federation invasion. He can send enough to the HTO to keep the Hydrans occupied and roll over with 200+ SEQ into Federation space.

So, overall, I think the net analysis is that he has the upper hand in this game and I have overplayed my hand with fighting too hard with the Kzinti.

On the other hand, the Hydrans might get *very* powerful, and that might be a real problem. So, dunno. Let's see how things go!

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, December 14, 2018 - 05:39 pm: Edit

Made a mistake - forgot to account for the fact that a Klingon tug was captured. That effectively reduces my losses by 1 and increases his by 1.

NET SEQ losses this turn are 13.67 Alliance, 26.67 Coalition. Losses now about 2:1 favor Alliance, but still not a great exchange rate.

Grand total Coalition losses KIA to date: 62.67

Grand total Alliance losses KIA to date: 39.17

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, December 15, 2018 - 04:32 am: Edit

Tough fight!

The key issue for the Kzinti will be how quickly can they get all those cripples back into action - and with 2 x SB, 2 x FRD and say 2 x BATS - there is pretty much close to 4 turns of repairs - so with using depot, it will reduce the costs but increase the time scale (so say 3 turns of paid for repairs and turn 8 to 10 will return up to 12 hulls for free).

With being based from the Barony and Marquis areas though (and having 2 turns of 'safety' in the Marquis area), with what is uncrippled and gets repaired, the Kzinti can be very aggressive.

By Karl Mangold (Karlsolomon) on Saturday, December 15, 2018 - 09:52 am: Edit

This game is certainly living up to its promise of exploring the Zin first strategy. After the meat grinder in 1401 last turn, I can't really see there being much meaningful action in that theatre for a while. The real question now is what sort of opportunities the events of this turn afford the "green menace."
Not to mention eventual fed involvement, but the Hydrans have 3 turns at least to go it alone, even if against a weakened coalition :/
I'm taking notes...

By chris upson (Misanthropope) on Saturday, December 15, 2018 - 11:17 am: Edit

my only disagreements with zin combat decisions are basically details. the financial picture interests me though, since i would have done that very differently. whats the zin debt after salvage?

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Sunday, December 16, 2018 - 12:05 am: Edit

The Kzin had an ADS defict of 24 on T3A, with comm con delivery and salvage, their balance is about +18 right now. So overall about -6.

The Lyrans will end the turn with -4 in ADS deficit but +8 after transferring 13 to Klingons so positive a bit. Klingons have -30 in ADS deficit, spent 18 on DB, but collected 40 salvage and got transfers from Lyrans. Overall they will end up about +15. No repair tugs used this turn, didn't think I needed to pay double to get ship count to protect anything.

Overall, I'm pleased with the current situation. I think the Kzin crippled too much and won't be a significant threat over the next few turns. Their off map repair can fix about 13 ships a turn. The Marquis can fix more ships, but they don't actually generate enough income to run all the repair available, that's not counting building a ship or doing any conversions.

I have 3 klingon reserves in the Hydran area, although 1 is pretty weak at 1415, mostly just to stop Hydran 1st fleet from killing a Klingon BATs. 2 other reserves at 1013 where I am setting up a Lyran MB. Overall about 115 SE within 6 of the Hydran homeworlds.

1 moderate Lyran reserve is at 0705, mostly in case the Counts fleet tries to attack any Lyran BATS. If he goes after the Lyran planets at 1001 or 1202 I can reserve there.

I've setup 2 lyran resv and 1 klingon resv at 1202 and 1504 respectively, 30 ships so reasonably strong. He can come off map with about 25 to 30 SE and the Counts have about 15 SE. But if he fights hard against near equal force, he takes cripples that go back into the backlog. Right now, I probably have about as many fighters in theatre as he has. Although Ted has fought harder than I have expected a number of times already though so we'll see what happens. I would think though that he would be a little less aggressive to rebuild his fleet so it is a threat.

Otherwise, 7 FRDs (4 lyran, 2 klingon and 1 PRD) at 1407. 2 FRDs at 1013.

Given ship kills. I've taken a lot more, and lost some quality ships. But we also have to add in the ships that never got built. The Kzin missed building a few ships on T3, only have 6 CVS groups, 5 CM's, will likely only build an FKE this turn in Marquis and won't get any Free Fighters. If I succeed in driving a wedge between the Feds/Kzin on T7 which is going to be a primary objective, it will be difficult for the Feds to transfer money. With a current deficit and 4 turns of income for his repair queue, it will be interesting when of if he chooses to start rebuilding shipyards.

Reviewing combat at the 1401 I'm not sure I shouldn't have left after killing the PDU's. I have a spreadsheet I kept with line size, die rolls, percentages, damage taken, ships crippled, etc. I definitely should have killed the MON/VP on T5 with the PDU's gone. I took a lot of excess damage on that as I didn't expect him to fight that long and cripple 90% of his fleet. This fight lasted many more rounds than I expected, he got his moneys worth from the LAD he built. Also, I think if he had killed fewer of my units he would have won the fight and I would have needed to come back on T5.

Regarding slow unit pursuit after I won. It wasn't actually that dangerous, by the time we got to the end I had CF, D5, 2xD6D, D6S, TG-B, F5, F5J and the rest was E4's. So the MON got away and both LAD's, with 12 fighters left over on the aux I couldn't just let him take the damage so I killed the LAV. I expect the MON will try and move to planet 1802 in Marquis space and I'm going to have to fight it again.

By Karl Mangold (Karlsolomon) on Sunday, December 16, 2018 - 10:06 am: Edit

I think Ted probably achieved some less tangible goals here in the massive cripple pile on the coalition side, along with the loss of Klingon CR10 ships. I imagine the Klingons will have a difficult time building their full schedule and repairing even just to full capacity. Unfortunately the Kzinti would have a tough time capitalizing on this, given they are in the same position. There is the option of forgoing construction on the shipyard for a turn to repair as much as possible and get those ships in service to start causing trouble. But then, that's yet another turn before the shipyard is operational. I recall another game (don't remember which) on here where the Kzinti player did this, and there was a lot of hand-wringing about whether it was the right decision.
The Lyrans probably don't have money problems, but then again right now the Enemy's Blood duchy is a no-mans land so they're not exactly sitting pretty. The Hydrans of course will have to occupy the full attention of the coalition until they are subdued or until Fed entry. Both sides have some difficult decisions to make, it seems.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, December 17, 2018 - 02:31 am: Edit

Ahh, the million dollar question!

Immediate revenge or the shipyard back quicker?

On the basis the Coalition can't be allowed to just keep the Kzinti and Hydrans boxed in - it's immediate revenge for me!

I would say repair as many carriers as possible, but with so few escorts (and normal hulls which could be ad-hoc'd) - some escorts will be needed to!

Kzinti navy will have very little staying power - but you can't have everything.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, February 07, 2019 - 03:24 pm: Edit

AT5 is complete. Another very quiet turn for the Alliance.

The Zin simply lack the strength to do anything real in their theater. The Coalition has maintained way too many units there, and continues to occupy the capital. It is what it is.

I have two significant partial grids: Counts (5 EPs) and Marquis (8 EPs). The Count's grid is used up: Build FFK and convert FF->FKE. The Marquis grid builds FKE and then saved 4 EPs at the Marquis for maybe getting out when I'm not completely hemmed in.

Zin continue medium shipyard (2nd turn), repair CL, FCR, TGC+BB, TGT+BB, 2*CM, 2*EFF, CC, 2*FFK. Convert 2*CM->2*MEC. Use depot to the max. My FRD park went from 35 SEQ to 22 SEQ, so significant dent.

The other big thing I did was used the money from the ComCon (plus some) to bring my national debt from 22.5 to 10. This keeps me from additional economic exhaustion (stands at 0.5 now) and reduces interest payments to 1. I was sorely tempted to go into MORE debt to repair more ships, but elected to be more conservative and bide my time with more money in the long run.

In the HTO, I built 4*PDU at the capital, converted 3*LN->DE, repaired LGE and SR, and then built 2*HR, 3*CU, and HN.

Because Dana did not react, I got the remnants of 1st fleet (some 10 SEQ) back to Hydrafahl (519). Prince Hydrajak (19 SEQ) goes from BATS 114 (where it was threatening deep Lyran space and brought out 31 SEQ of Lyrans to the hinterlands of Lyran space) to SB 215 to defend it.

63 SEQ remain at the capital. During strat, new construction and 6 existing cruisers went offmap to form two fairly decent reserves of 10.5 and 7.5 SEQ, respectively.

Over to Dana for CT6. His earlier declaration was to do a decent CT7 Fed invasion, which will require him to redistribute a bunch of repaired cripples that way - but he still has some 150 SEQ threatening the Hydrans even without that.

His repair bill will likely be somewhere in the 110+ EP for both Lyrans and Klingons.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat2) on Friday, February 08, 2019 - 09:18 am: Edit

The premise to this game amuses me because I always thought a Hydran first strat was the way to go. And as the Coalition I do it with overwhelming force, to the point where from Alliance turn 3 I am just defending on the Kzinti front, with a fleet that is weaker than theirs. This puts enough force on the Hydran front that they lose all their on-map possessions by turn 5, which means a turn 7 Fed assault can happen, with very little left to repair from the Hydran battles.

Will be interesting to watch.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, February 08, 2019 - 09:23 am: Edit

So far, Dana is doing a good job. However, I did choose to fight for the Zin capital too hard. Crippled too many Zin units, so their fleet is extremely weak at this point.

The advantage to the Zin first policy I'm seeing is that it can be done *earlier* than the Hydran first policy.

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Friday, February 08, 2019 - 11:55 am: Edit

I'm going to post T5 builds and combat summary tonight. Then follow up with T6 econ by tomorrow.

Got the preliminary econ for T6 filled out for the Klingons and Lyrans last night. If I fix everything possible this turn I will have exactly a 100 pt repair bill for the Klingons. Plus 43 more for the Lyrans and I've used Depot for both of them. With borrowing and taking my deficit up to just under 50% I could do it and still build a full line. However conversions will be limited. At that point the Klingons would be almost completely repaired, about 5 ships not fixed plus half a dozen working through depot. My T7 repair bill would likely drop to 10 depending on hard I fight in Hydran space this turn. Even so it would be Lyran FRD's fixing stuff there anyways, Klingon Tugs have orders to move their FRD stack east.

More likely I'm looking at not fixing any of the ships that are crippled and on a Fed border BATS or on the TBS SB. I can just as easily fix them next turn, save myself the interest cost and cross the border with them on T7 anyways. Main advantage would be to strat move them into nice fleet boxes and improve coordination which I'm not sure is that important.

I've got to see whether I can get enough ships to do it but I think I'm close to having enough ships to drop all the Fed SB on T7 and get the Marquis. No better time than when they can't rely on the home fleet for help. Maybe I'm being optimistic on that thought.

Question if anyone feels like chiming in. I'm going to have 3 stasis cruisers this turn and I can pair each of them up with multiple maulers, good scouts (D6S, D6D, and D5S) plus a couple D6J are available. I could assign them all to the Hydran front and really keep Ted honest about not fielding big cruiser lines. But the Hydrans have about 4 carrier groups now and especially at the capital he can see it coming so I won't get great use out of them. Putting them up against the kzin seems pointless, I won't freeze anything but escorts. I'm thinking about moving two groups to Fed space though. The Feds start unorganized and don't have lots of Carrier's yet, I could get some cheap CA kills. Or do I just keep them facing the Hydrans.

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Friday, February 08, 2019 - 05:20 pm: Edit

Don't assume you can only freeze escorts. I learned the (VERY) hard way just how evil 2 SFGs can be in a single battle force when I had a Fed CVB shot out from under me without its escorts being damaged. Enough "random ship frozen" rolls can really make your day hell.

By chris upson (Misanthropope) on Friday, February 08, 2019 - 09:20 pm: Edit

i like stasis cruisers in reserves. D6A D6A MD5 F5J in a reserve makes an offensive-minded alliance really sweat the details in every podunk pinning action without much real combat power invested.

finessing an extra frigate or destroyer every couple years and maintaining the threat seems like pretty solid value for a ship which is kind of a big lottery ticket if you use it aggressively.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Saturday, February 09, 2019 - 08:23 am: Edit

Stasis ships make good province holder killers. You don't have to pair them with great ships. E4 and E4S make great consorts to a D7A. If a Reserve shows up, you give up the E4. The advantage is the reserve is not going where it is really needed or could make a tough fight, tougher.

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Saturday, February 09, 2019 - 09:13 am: Edit

T5C (posted late)

Klingons
- Borrow 28.5, Total debt 58.
- Repair 75
- Builds 134.5 B10 roll, D7C, FD7, D5V, AD5, 7xD5, 2xE4(sub), 3xF5, F5G, 3xE4, SB(no ftrs) @ 1009, ENG upg MB->BS @ 1502
- Mothball 7
- Conv 16 (most during repair) D6M, D6J, D7A, D6S, D6D, 2xF5E, F5G
- SB upgrade should pay for itself with faster convoy turnaround

Lyrans
- Borrow 14, Debt 14
- Repair 45
- Builds 65.5 - BC, SR, 4xCW, 3xDW, 3xFF, survey slot, ENG minor Shipyard FF
- Conv 6 DN

Movement / Combat
I didn't give the Kzin's an option to react to any movement and bring their reserve group on map. So the Count's SB lives another turn. I figured that if I attacked the Counts on T5, his reserves could go there to defend, then his T5 he moves back off map and T6 he is ready to move his force and defend the Marquis SB on T7. Deferring the attack on the Counts to T6 means any ships that move to support the Counts won't get over to defend the Marquis. Only downside is it forces me to keep a reserve group at 705 that can respond to any attack on Lyran BATS from the ships on the Counts SB.

Southern Lyran space, moved dozen ships with TG-P to 0312. Established strong reserve at BATS 0109 as Hydrans had 20 ships at their BATS 0114. I have enough ships in the area now that I can think about establishing a MB here next turn and bring an FRD in. That lets me threaten the back side of Hydran space and split his fleet some.

Hydran space, very simple, moved about 20 ships onto Hydran 1017 SB which had 7 SIDS from previous turns combat. Finished it off with loss of D6G, F5 vs LN. Pinned all ships on the Hydran homeworlds plus enough extra so that when his off map resv arrives he is still pinned Then put about 10 ships onto major 718 and captured it, killing the MON. At the homeworlds no command points where spent. While I had more ships there were a lot of F5/E4's there. Attacked all 3 minors with 95 to 100 pt lines, killing 5 PDU's first round. Went back to the planet with fewest minus points with my best line and devastated it killing a PGS, ignored the other two minors. Then left as I had maxed my repair capacity at 1013. Lost a D6 in pursuit.

Otherwise, moved a lot of cripples from 1407 around to other repair. Most cripples (95%+) from the Kzin capital assault are now in a position to be repaired on T6. Lyrans sent 14EP to Klingons in strat move, and Klingon F5T delivered 5EP from Wyncovia.

End of turn, given the number of repaired ships eligible for strat I was able to establish 3 strong reserves facing Hydrans, and 4 versus Kzintis. That led to no combat and minimal movement on the alliance part of T5

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, February 09, 2019 - 11:56 am: Edit

Hydrans are gonna be nasty.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, February 09, 2019 - 04:02 pm: Edit

I can understand why the Kzinti are doing nothing (overcrippled over 1401 - and crippling a couple of Coalition ships for even 1 or 2 kzinti ships is not going to help them) - but why are the Hydrans doing nothing?

With a totally reactive Alliance - it's plays massively into the Coalition hands I think.

The Hydrans have to attack - even it just involves trading 4 Hydrans ships and a stack of fighters for say 4 Coalition ships plus 8 crippled Coalition Ships (due to lack of fighters).

If the Coalition does want to attack the Federation on Turn 7 - dialing the war back to a phoney war status, will kill the Federation.

By chris upson (Misanthropope) on Saturday, February 09, 2019 - 06:00 pm: Edit

thomas

the province holders and the stasis ships are probably on the same team.

paul

the "prince hydrajak" action ted mentioned earlier is the kind of thing they aspire to repeat (in size) ideally the turn after the klingons have gotten themselves heavily committed elsewhere. since defenders in klingon space are unable to help much against an attack into lyran space, or vice versa, swapping hulls as you precribe may be bad for the alliance.

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Saturday, February 09, 2019 - 08:17 pm: Edit

The force Ted had at 0114, Pr. Hydrajak, could have attacked up to the Lyran BATS at 0109, but I had equal ships there and a BATS. If he'd attacked the ships at 0312, my force at 0109 had a strong reserve that he would have brought 3 hexes forward, right now at 0109 it can only get to a BATS 0114, it can't reach SB 0215. It seemed reasonable for him to do nothing there.

At his homeworlds he had about 70 to 75SE, I had my retreated attack force of 75 SE sitting in 0717. He could have attacked to 0718 major which only had 5 SE, but I would have reacted on it, and then 2 reserves from 1013 moved there for another 25 SE, so 105SE total. Now he has Hydrans with lots of fighters, but not unlimited. I would have 30 fighters myself in that group, 3 or 4 maulers, 2 D7A and much better scouts. I'll kill as many Hydran CA's as he feels like putting on the line and probably win the fight.

His force at home though couldn't get anywhere else to hurt me without getting pinned by my 717 ships. Right now I don't have enough force there or the ships required to take his homeworlds but I have more than enough ships to win deep space fights and pin him.

Don't think I'm giving anything away to say that I'm debating how many ships I will pull from the Hydran theatre this turn (or at least there won't be reinforcements for a few turns). The Fed 3rd flt SB at 2211 is 12 hexes from 1013. I can move ships not eligible for strat from there half way on T6 and be ready for the T7 attack. He'll likely have better opportunities to attack me in a turn or 2 with the Hydrans and if he doesn't lose CA's this turn the attack will be harder to defend.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, February 10, 2019 - 04:47 am: Edit

Dana

That is precisely my point.

By doing nothing - the non used Coalition reserves on turn 5, can op move on turn 6 and be ready to be ideally placed to be used against the Feds on turn 7.

Yes, the fights might not be ideal - but you have to do something, to disrupt the Coalitions plans.

Not knowing the exact force locations, it's not easy to say you could have done X and Y, as force X could help pin hex Z, which avoids the risk of Coalition forces reacting into 617.

A single round with a carrier line wouldn't risk Cruisers - and if each lose a hull and the Coalition Reserves are now in Hydran space - who loses?

The Coalition (and the Hydrans) - so job done.

Although it's good to get the Federation into the game as soon as possible for the Alliance - a very strong Coalition turn 7 invasion is probably the easiest way for the Coalition to weaken the Federation so much, that they can never recover.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat2) on Sunday, February 10, 2019 - 08:52 am: Edit

Paul check the ATP board

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Sunday, February 10, 2019 - 07:55 pm: Edit

Paul,

Don't forget the Hydrans were *extremely* aggressive on AT3. I pretty much wiped out all Lyran bases in the southern border. Frankly, I didn't have much in the way of targets.

As Dana said, he radically out-pinned me in the HTO and in the ZTO. By attacking I would end up losing anywhere it mattered, unless I offered up giant lines, and I want my good cruisers preserved for later in the war or for a major capital fight. My only real target of any meaning I could *even reach* (remember his pincount advantage) was to take 718, but that would require an extended fight in which all that would happen is a reduction in my pincount.

So, instead, I built as much as I could without going into debt and simply beefed up my defensive position.

A6 should see some more action, as he will have to withdraw at least the cripples so far in the HTO. Naturally he will continue to enjoy pincount advantage in the HTO for a while, but if I can keep 617 the LGM will make his life very misreable by mid-war.

One thing I've noticed about Alliance play is that they can be very good at rope-a-dope. Just when you think you've got them beat, they come back with a vengeance. I'm placing the Hydrans in a position where they will become a very serious problem unless he re-allocates forces from the Federation - which of course frees up the Federation.

That is the plan. Whether I can execute it - we see. But I promise you, the Hydrans mean business and they very much will come out to play if/when the pincount disparity is less than 1.5:1 in his favor. Right now it's more like 2:1, so he can still dominate the theater.