Archive through February 14, 2019
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Federation & Empire: F&E QUESTIONS:
F&E Q&A Discussions:
Archive through February 14, 2019
Lyran DNPs and BCPs are probably under the same limits as PFTs, ie build one and convert one per turn (assuming you can build the base hull in the first case).
Note that according to the Lyran OOB, BCH and variants are limited to one per year and also note that the BCP is a BCH variant, not a BC variant.
Posted here to avoid cluttering Q&A...
I think I got lost have way down the post.. but the rules seem clear.
If you have two reserve fleets - one fleet can go to a non-battle hex to open the route for the 2nd fleet to go through.
But, if you can get to the battle hex without creating a battle hex from a non-battle hex, you have to do it (203.74 - 'must')
So, if in the example Ted had used, there are 4 routes from the Barony to 1605 (with normal speed 6 ships).
If the 4 hexes had 5,5,24 and 5 ship equivalents in - 203.74 CAN'T be used - as 3 of the 4 hexes do NOT stop a reserve fleet with 16 equivalents moving through it.
If the hexes had 24,24,24,24 (or 1-3 hexes had 25 or greater) 203.74 CAN be used - as all 4 hexes require a notional* 24 ship equivalent to pin the hex.
So Reserve Fleet 1 goes to one of the 4 hexes (16 Eq's) and Reserve Fleet 2 can then move though that hex - leaving 8 of it's 8 ships (you can't leave more than 50% of the force etc).
* - Command Rating may further reduce what is left in the hex.
If the 4 hexes at 25 Ship Equivalents in (with a CR10 hull) - you can't get a reserve fleet through due to the 50% rule.
So, to me and in simple terms - you check the priority list
1) Route via no enemey ship hexes
2) Route requiring the fewest number of enemy ships being pinned and without leaving more than 50% behind
3) If no route exists under 1 and 2, a route can be used using 203.732 to create a path
(203.731 has a similar effect, but is further limited by requiring supply to be an issue).
So as other than 1401, 3 of the hexes DON'T block a reserve fleet, 203.732 can't be used.
I don't think 203.731 will also help - as units stacked with the BATS will be in supply .
There is one way of using 203.732 - if the reserve were smaller (say 4 equivalents), it would get blocked by the four hexes, but I don't think it would be legal to remove ships from reserve 2...and then remove ships from reserve 1 - and then move reserve 1 to a blocking hex to allow reserve 2 to get through.
(203.72 allows you to move PART of a reserve fleet, but you can't remove part of one fleet before going to move another reserve fleet and then move the original fleet - so you can't create the situation that at the start of the reserve movement 203.732 can't be used, but mid way through reserve movement 203.732 can be used)
But just my 2p!
Paul,
I think the real problem here is that there is no implied or explicit connection between 203.73 and 203.74. Also, I *can* remove ships from a reserve. Also, I *think* I get to specify the order in which reserve fleets are applied.
If that is the case, then if the two rules are connected I can "game the system" just by manipulating my reserve fleet composition prior to them moving.
However, if we go your way, then I cannot remove units from a reserve at all because of the "no possible alternative" language in the first sentence of 203.732. Does that mean that I lose the right to remove units from a reserve if I want to take advantage of 203.732?
Seems to me there's a lot of implied stuff in "no possible alternative" which is not intended by whoever drafted this rule (probably SVC). Instead, I think the intention is that 203.732 "no possible alternative" language is just referring to the check that there's no path to the target hex which does not involve enemy units. I *believe* that 203.73 and 203.74 are "disconnected" - i.e., you can use either.
Then again, I have no explicit backup for my position, just logic. So, ultimately, I think this one is going to be answered by a "what is good for the game" or "what did the designer intend".
I guess we'll see.
Paul,
I've re-read your analysis. It has two logical problems.
First, you have assumed a flow that results in your conclusion - but you have not actually stated *why* the rule supports your flow. It appears you have simply agreed with Dana's position that the word "no possible alternative" implies the invocation of 203.74. Which, admittedly, it might - but you have added nothing to the discussion.
Second, you have not dealt with my counter argument at all. Specifically, you have not dealt with the second sentence of 203.73.
Again, the second sentence says, "Thus, one Reserve Fleet can move into a hex which is not a Battle Hex if in doing so it allows a second Reserve Fleet to move to a qualified objective hex". In my argument I satisfy the black letter conditions of 203.732. I am moving one reserve feet into a hex which is not a battle hex and "in doing so" it "allows" the second reserve fleet to move to the qualified objective. There's no requirement for me to check 203.74 first. The only requirement is to check to see if there is a path to the target hex without enemy units (in this case there is not).
In other words, the clarifying second sentence of 203.73 seems to soften the more absolute language of the first sentence 203.73. Because of the clarifying sentence, the "no possible alternative" language is really just referring to there being no path without enemy ships in it - it does NOT imply a reference to check 203.74 as an "alternative" first.
Now, if you believe that you can add to either of these points, I'm all ears. However, if you want to actually support Dana's position you will need to add something more than the "no possible alternative" language (because it's already been raised) - or you'll also have to show how 203.732, second sentence doesn't support my position.
I have been authorized to post the following from Dana Madsen regarding this rules issue:
Quote:I have two opinions on which way this should work and they conflict.
One is in my favour (although really I just want to get it right and if I lose a new Base Station and maybe a SAV and ENG due to not paying attention that's one of the best ways to remember the rules), the other reads in Teds favour.
I like looking at the rules and saying how could I build a flowchart to implement this.
203.73
1. Select a reserve fleet, Ted has, 1st Reserve.
2. Select an objective, Ted has 1605
3. move to that hex by the shortest legal path (within other restrictions*). The shortest path is 1601->1602->1603->1604->1605. You have a number of alternate 6 hex paths moving through 1501->1502 or 1701->1702, etc and choosing different points in which to jump onto the 160x chain. But for our purposes, every path must go through at least one hex containing enemy units. Either 1502, 1601 or 1701. There are a few paths that could go through multiple enemy hexes, let's ignore those.
4. Now look at 203.732 as a straight question, Can the reserve group get to the target hex, yes or no. If you consider 203.74 the answer is yes (so what does within other restrictions mean). It gets their with 2 ships left behind to satisfy a pinning condition but it gets there. If the answer is no you may use 203.732 to open a path. Nothing in 203.732 says that the force must get there 100% as is. There is no qualification on the "no possible alternative by which the subsequent Reserve unit could reach the objective hex.
however, 203.734 hangs out at the bottom and confuses me (and maybe changes my flowchart implementation in Ted's favour).
203.734 ignore any path containing enemy units (although you don't have to).
So now you circle back to 203.732 and ask can your reserve fleet reach 1605. The answer looking at it this way is no, 203.734 eliminated all possible paths for the first reserve to reach 1605 because all possible paths contained enemy units. So now you move 2nd reserve to open a path.
*** maybe there is another flaw here because all possible paths still contain enemy units after 2nd reserve has moved, just one of those paths is now pinned
Now you kick into 203.74 and evaluate your best path to get there, because 2nd reserve has cleared the way through 1502, you have 0 ships required to be left behind going through that path, and the other paths Then you re-evaluate your best path to get there.
I'm making my head hurt looking at it and I think I'm over complicating it.
Also, yes, I wondered about his voluntarily dropping some number of ships out of the 1st Reserve before declaring their reserve target is 1605 (including better command ships), stating that it's objective hex is 1605 but can't reach it because over half of it is pinned moving through any possible path and so 2nd reserve is required to clear the way. I could buy that if he proposed the list right.
For reference, I have checked the sequence of play. Step 4B states that the non-phasing player selects a reserve fleet and moves it.
Therefore, I *do* get to select the order in which reserve fleets move.
Additionally, rule 203.72 states that the defending player can move *any portion* of a designated reserve, even a single ship. The moving portion must include a ship capable of command of the portion. The rule does not state that said command has to be the original command.
Therefore, I *do* get to pull any ships I want out of the reserve.
Accordingly, no matter which way this rule issue falls, I think will be able to "game the system" to hit hex 1502.
The only undefined thing here is the *order* in which I have to consider 203.73 and 203.74. This order is not defined
Example:
I pull out ships from Reserve 1 until more than half the units would be pinned if I went through hex 1701 (which has the least number of units at 5). Now Reserve 1 can no longer satisfy 203.74.
Reserve 1 now can take advantage of 203.73. I send it to hex 1502, because doing so will create a path in which I have to leave fewer (or as few) ships as I would have to leave if I went through 1701.
I have satisfied 203.73 and 203.74 for Reserve 2. So it leaves the minimum behind at 1502 and reaches 1605.
Personally, and this just is my opinion, this kind of metagaming is obnoxious and unnecessary. Thus, it's better to simply say 203.73 and 203.74 are not connected to each other. If both rules could apply, the non-phasing player gets to pick which way he wants to play it.
Alternatively, just say that 203.73 is conditional on satisfying 203.74. But that results in the metagaming I don't think is good for the game.
Will read your full reply in the morning (off to bed 
) but I think your reading stuff which is not there.
You can choose to move reserve fleets in what ever order - and when you move it - you can leave behind some of those ships behind (203.72).
But if you make Reserve fleet 2 say 8 ships - so it gets blocked by the 3 smaller hexes - you can't now move reserve move fleet 1 to one of those hexes, as you have started the move process of fleet 2.
Nothing in Phase 4 (reserve movement) allows you to amend the size of a non-moving reserve fleet.
(There are other parts of the turn when a reserve fleet can be changed - reaction for example - but clearly that is not relevant here)
On your example in the last post.
If reserve 1 becomes too small to get to 1605 - it can't move to 1502, as reserve 2 is NOT stopped (at that point) in getting to 1605.
In other words, you can't amend the size of BOTH fleets before moving one of them - once the reserve movement phase has started.
The only thing you can do - is amend the size of one reserve fleet - to allow you to leave the maximum number & best ships of pinned ships in say 1502 (match the defenders Command Rating for example), whist still allowing it to get to 1604 - which would allow the other reserve fleet to reach 1605 without being pinned.
You're assuming that reserve 1 has "started" moving.
What you've revealed is another ambiguity. When do you actually make the determination of 203.74 under your argument?
Under what circumstances could you *ever* use 203.73? Seems like to me your interpretation would exclude all but the rarest possible situations. That doesn't make sense.
You're still making assumptions that are not defined in the rules.
And, by the way, you *can* amend the size of BOTH fleets before moving them once the reserve movement phase has started. 203.72 does not say you must remove and then move - it just says you can move "any portion". So, I can remove ships from multiple fleets and then move them in any order I wish.
The rules simply do not state *when* removal of ships is permitted or not permitted under 203.72, so you are still making assumptions - though I will admit I too am making an assumption here.
My truly honest opinion is that this rules situation is *undefined*. You cannot arrive at a correct conclusion using pure logic because the rules themselves are not clear enough in terms of determining *when* decisions are made in what order, or whether there is truly a connection between 203.73 and 203.74.
If you can find logic to *compel* your conclusion, I will be surprised. Good luck. However, so far, both a lawyer and a computer programmer have failed to find a single answer that is *compelled* by the language of the rules.
I thought 72 was clearly enough written to say that "leave ships behind" could only take place at the instant that specific reserve starts moving, so I think the rule as written says you adjust the size of each reserve fleet only when THAT fleet moves. I do not see anything in 72 that says you can adjust the size of every reserve fleet and then move one of them.
Hmmm, just what is the problem?
(203.74) is not invoked if (203.732) is used?
Or is it something else?
The problem is the wording in (203.732). Specifically the first two sentences, Ted has the full question in Q&A.
Specifically, in (203.732) you use a reserve fleet to open a path for a subsequent reserve fleet to move to a legal objective hex.
What process do you go through to determine whether or not that reserve fleet could make it to the objective hex before you use a second fleet to open the path?
That is the simple form of the question, in my mind anyways. Do you have to evaluate the best path rules in 203.74 to see if it can make it? Does entire reserve group need to arrive to count as making it, or if some part can arrive at the objective hex and part remains to resolve a pin, does that count making it?
SVC, thanks for joining in.
The real issue is not which reserve fleet moves when. The real issue is whether the "no possible alternative" in the first sentence of 203.732 requires you to use 203.732 before you can use 203.74.
Basically, I have 2 reserves and a target hex with that is blocked by enemy units. Because of the way the units are arranged, and I could either use 203.732 to move 1 reserve to a single hex and open a path OR I could also use 203.74 to move a single fleet and move the minimum number of ships behind. Either way would work in this question.
The Alliance player wants to use 203.732. The Coalition player says the "no possible alternative in the first sentence of 203.732 means that the Alliance player must use 203.74. The Alliance player rebuts that the second sentence of 203.732 basically says that I could use 203.732 if I wanted to.
Ted, how could "no possible alternative" not require you to exhaust all possible options granted you through all the other rules of the game?
you can get reserve B to the qualified battle hex while moving reserve A to a qualified battle hex, by your own admission. therefore, an alternative exists, therefore 203.732 is prohibited. meaning no unfriendliness, i cannot fathom how the *location of the rule* which provides you that alternative could be material.
the portion of 203.732 following "thus" is merely a casually-worded description of the game-play effect, and should not be invoked to confound the actual explicit procedure which it attempts to illustrate.
Ted
As others have said - there is no mechanism to allow in your situation a reserve fleet to end in 1702.
I suppose, rule wise, 203.732 gives the exception to the normal reserve hex rules - not an option.
If one of the reserve fleets started phase 4 as say 5 equivalents (and no higher Command Rating than what is in 1502) - you could declare it's target to be 1605 and allow the other reserve fleet to go to 1502 to open the path. (Which may be felt to be cheesy, but the rules do allow it).
Back to your rules point and going from the Turn order - there isn't a valid point to reduce the ships in the reserve fleet to allow that to happen, once Operational movement has ended. The next chance to reduce the size of it occurs during that fleets reserve movement - either prior to it's own movement or due to pinning.
Chris,
I *really believe* there is an ambiguity here that needs to be resolved. As I demonstrate below, I "win" either way this ruling comes down, so I don't "need" the ruling to come down my way.
As Paul pointed out, it is possible for me to pull out ships from one reserve fleet under 203.72. Let's further assume, based on SVC's comment that one reserve fleet moves at a time and you must pull ships from a reserve at the time the reserve is declared to be moving. OK, I pull sufficient ships from the reserve so that it cannot get past the requirements of 203.74 if it goes through the minimum number of ships in hex 1701 (in this example). I now declare the target of this smaller reserve to be hex 1605 (the combat hex). Being unable to reach it - under Paul and your interpretation - there is "no possible" alternative, so now I invoke 203.732 and have the large reserve fleet hit hex 1502 to open that path. The small reserve then goes to hex 1605 as originally ordered.
To me - and this is my personal opinion only - this result seems like metagaming. Or, as Paul put it, it's cheesy. What makes more sense to me, and seems more natural, is that 203.732 and 203.74 are separate and distinct, and the non-phasing player gets to choose which rule to use.
I'll answer your objections.
I disagree that the word "Thus" in the second sentence is "merely a casually-worded description of the game play effect". What is the basis for your assertion? All you have is your opinion. I could just as easily say that the term "no possible alternative" is casually worded description of the game play effect and should not be invoked to confound the actual explicit procedure it attempts to illustrate.
Example: (and this brings me back to the point I've been making all along). I contend that the "actual explicit procedure" that is being illustrated is that you check for any path that is free of enemy units. If there is no such path, then there is "no possible alternative" per the second sentence.
The "no possible alternative" is not defined. More specifically, the "alternative" is not defined. Alternative to what, exactly? To *ANYTHING?* OK, then does that mean I'm forbidden from using 203.72 to remove ships from a reserve to game 203.74 because that is an "alternative"? To me that doesn't make sense, and there's no defined interaction with 203.72. In the same way, why is there no reference 203.74? Also, why would 203.74 be presented *SECOND* in the sequence of rules? It's disorganized to say "no possible alternative" in 203.732 and require you to go check 203.74 as an alternative. It makes more sense to present 203.74 first and then say if there's no possible alternative to 203.74 you can use 203.732.
However, it is true that disorganization in a rule doesn't make a rule ineffective. However, my primary argument is not based on the *location* of these two rules. It's based on the language of the rule.
Words have meaning, and you can't just ignore their meaning because you *think* the rule is intended to go one way. The word "Thus" means "in the way just indicated; in this way" or "consequentially", along with several other definitions according to "Dictionary.com".
So, just reading the plain English of the rule (this is not "rules lawyering," it's just English) I can read that the second sentence of 203.732 means "consequentially" or "in this way" - so it very much explains or clarifies the meaning of the first sentence.
OK, if that's true, then the second sentence is pretty clear that what "no possible alternative" means is a check for any path free of any enemy ships - if no such path exists, then you can use 203.732; else, you can't.
Or, again, does "no possible alternative" preclude you from doing *anything* (such as using 203.72) which would allow you invoke 203.732? Seems like a pretty strict result in view of the second sentence of 203.732.
Again, this is not "rules lawyering". It's trying to figure out what ambiguous statements mean using the plain English meaning of words that are there. You can't overly-focus on the words "no possible alternative" when the very next sentence seems to contradict ONE interpretation of what "no possible alternative" means through the use of more permissive language.
However, and I've said this from the beginning, my position may not be SVC's (the game designer's) intent. Maybe SVC intended for the "no possible" language to mean that if you CAN use 203.74 to get around enemy units on the way to a destination hex, then you MUST. Great. If that's the case, then let's get the ruling and that settles the issue.
In this case, in my particular situation, I will game the system as I've described above and I will still hit hex 1502 with a large reserve, destroy the BS under construction, and (possibly) get me a COE or SAV. A small reserve will hit 1605, but that's not really my main goal here.
However, it's also possible (and this is not rules lawyering - it's just going with the plain English meaning of words in 203.732) that SVC meant that the non-phasing player can use *either* procedure at his option. My personal opinion is that this produces a better result because it seems more natural to just say "reserve 1 goes here and reserve 2 goes there", and there's no cheesy metagaming to get around 203.74.
If that is the result, then again I hit 1502 and destroy the BS under construction, and a slightly larger fleet hits 1605 (which will still lose).
So, the bottom line *for me* is the same either way.
I have no skin in the game regarding which way this ruling goes down. Either way I'm going to score a minor coup which, while hardly affecting the outcome of the game, will feel good and score some nice economic damage on the Coalition.
What I'm more concerned about is settling what is, in my personal opinion, a definitely present ambiguity caused by the two back-to-back sentences that seem to contradict each other and do NOT mention how to interact with a subsequent rule (i.e., there's no defined interaction between 203.732 and 203.74).
My post above was too verbose to get across my main point - my apologies.
Here's the bottom line for me: What was SVC's (Steve Cole's) intent for the rules of reserve movement? Are 203.732 and 203.74 separate from each other, so that the phasing player gets to decide which rule to use - or - do you have to use 203.74 if you can, and you get to use 203.732 ONLY IF 203.74 can't be used?
Answer this question, and the issue goes away. The Warbook will add a reference in rule 203.732 referring to 203.74 and specify either 1) you have to check 74 first as an alternative or 2) You can use either 74 or 732 at your option.
[EDIT] I also note that there is a possible interaction between 203.732 and 203.72. Does "no possible alternative" in 203.732 *also* mean, assuming that 203.74 must be checked as a "possible alternative" under 203.732, that you are forbidden from removing ships from a reserve under 203.72 in order to setup a situation that you can take advantage of 203.732 - because this action is a "possible alternative" under the meaning of 203.732?
Ted
Step 1 - Breathe deeply
Step 2 - Accept you can't hit 1502 with a reserve
"I now declare the target of this smaller reserve to be hex 1605 (the combat hex). Being unable to reach it - under Paul and your interpretation - there is "no possible" alternative, so now I invoke 203.732 and have the large reserve fleet hit hex 1502 to open that path. The small reserve then goes to hex 1605 as originally ordered. "
You can't do this and isn't what I said.
During the reserve phase, once you have removed ships from one reserve fleets - you have to complete the movement of that fleet before you move onto the next reserve fleet. So if it doesn't move before the next fleet moves - it can't move full stop (and so the 2nd reserve fleet can't move to 1502 - as no force can then get to 1605).
Hence the only way your plan could have worked would be for one of the reserve fleets to START the reserve phase small enough to be pinned - and so the other reserve fleet then moves to the blocking hex and allow the smaller fleet to get to the target hex.
Personally - I think the rule is clear.
Either you move to a valid hex OR you move to a blocking hex - you can't create blocking hexes through fiddling with the size of reserve fleets during the reserve phase.
I think (without reading all the rules, admittedly) that reserve fleets move one at a time.
I think that 'no possible alternative' is probably intended to only apply to the current moving reserve fleet and does not take into account possible future actions (or in-actions) of reserve fleets that are yet unmoved.
Paul, respectfully, you are wrong. I do not accept that you can't hit 1502 with a reserve. These rules are NOT clear, and unless the ruling says otherwise, I maintain *CAN* hit 1502 with a reserve.
You are overly focusing on the "no possible alternative" language in the first sentence of 203.732.
You still have not dealt with the second sentence of 203.732. This language is just as much an enforceable rule as the first sentence.
Again, the second sentence says: "Thus, one Reserve Fleet can move into a hex which is not a Battle Hex if in doing so it allows a second Reserve Fleet to move to a qualified objective hex."
"Thus" means "consequentially" or "in the way just indicated." Go see dictionary.com.
By necessity, then, the second sentence explains the meaning of the first.
The second sentence goes on to say that one reserve fleet *CAN* move into a hex which is not a battle hex *IF IN DOING SO* it allows a second reserve fleet to move to a qualified objective hex.
This language is PERMISSIVE and is not the language of "no POSSIBLE" alternative, as you are asserting. Accordingly, what "no possible alternative" means is to check to see if there is a path without enemy units.
Therefore, I *CAN* hit 1502 with a reserve because I *CAN* move one reserve fleet into a hex which is not a battle hex IF IN DOING SO it allows the second reserve to move to a qualified objective hex.
In fact, I contend that the "no possible alternative" language in the first sentence is the "color" language and that it is you that is reading into the rule a restriction that does not exist (namely the so-called alternative of 203.74).
You have yet to deal with this logical argument. Prove to me that you can reconcile the assertion that "no possible alternative" means that I MUST consult 203.74, when the second sentence sentence of 203.732 says that I CAN use rule .732 "if in doing so it allows the second reserve fleet to move to the qualified objective hex."
Quote:By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, February 14, 2019 - 10:57 am: Edit
I think (without reading all the rules, admittedly) that reserve fleets move one at a time.
I think that 'no possible alternative' is probably intended to only apply to the current moving reserve fleet and does not take into account possible future actions (or in-actions) of reserve fleets that are yet unmoved.
Well said.
Let's say the flowchart works like this.
Example 1: I pick reserve 1. I remove no ships from reserve 1. I declare it's target to be 1605. It is "moving"; however, there is NO POSSIBLE ALTERNATIVE for reserve 1 to reach the battle hex. Therefore, I invoke 203.732. I send reserve 2 to open a path to hex 1502. I now complete the move of reserve 1.
Example 2: I pick reserve 1. I remove no ships from reserve 1. I declare its target to be 1605. It is "moving"; however, I note that there is a hex (1701) through which I could move through enemy units in order to reach hex 1605 without being pinned out under 203.742. Therefore, I use 203.74, leave behind a number of ships, and hit battle hex 1605 using reserve 1. I now move reserve 2. Reserve 2 now has a path through hex 1701, and takes it to reach hex 1605.
Note the result of this procedure: I get to pick which procedure I want to use.
In other words, going with the logical interpretation of 203.72 that you pick one reserve at a time and *when* you make the determination of "no possible alternative" in 203.732 - the non-phasing player effectively has control over whether or how 203.732 or 203.74 is going to be used.
This has been my contention all along.
Richard only, thankfully, opened my eyes that the real issue is not *how* to interpret "no possible alternative" in .732, but *when* to interpret "no possible alternative" in .732.
If I do not consider the future action of the first reserve, then I can say there's "no possible alternative" for the first reserve, so I can move the second reserve to 1502.
However, I will admit that there is *still* an ambiguity here. There's nothing in the language of the rule of "when" to evaluate whether there is a "possible alternative."
I still contend that the second sentence of 203.732 makes it seem like you don't have to consider 203.74 before you take advantage of 203.732.
@ Paul,
To be fair, I've thought about your argument regarding "gaming" the system by removing ships and then trying to get around the putative restriction of having to consider .74 first. I think you *are* right about that. At least, you are right if you are also right about the meaning of "no possible alternative".
However, I remain convinced that you are wrong on both *how* and *when* to interpret the "no possible alternative" language in .732. I remain convinced that the non-phasing player ultimately gets to pick which rule he wants to use in this particular situation.
That being said, if SVC tells us what he intended, then the issue is settled fast - we go with that (whatever it is).
Or FEDS/FEAR can rule if SVC doesn't want to bother with this pretty esoteric F&E situation.
Whatever.
At this point I've said my piece.
I think that you must move your reserves one at a time.
In lieu of moving to an existing battle hex, the currently selected reserve can go to a hex with enemy units IF by doing so it allows a subsequent reserve fleet to reach a battle hex that it otherwise could not reach.
This process can be chained, ie one reserve opens a path for another reserve to open a path for a thirrd reserve to reach a (previous to reserve mo0vement) battle hex.
If a reserve fleet does this (opens a path) then the subsequent reserve fleet must go to the battle hex that needed the path opening reserve fleet to create a battle hex.
Ted
I think we are done - lets see what FEAR/SVC say.
Richard
203.732 can't be used to daisy chain reserves to allow a reserve reach the battle hex - as only one reserve fleet can be used.
203.731 can be used to daisy chain reserves though to get supply through(and is explicit - it's an all or nothing - so if three fleets are needed to open supply - you need to use all 3).
I'm having trouble visualizing the problem. Can someone post an image to show the map in question?? Here's a map you can use.
Garth L. Getgen
Quote:By Mike Dowd (Mike_Dowd) on Thursday, February 14, 2019 - 01:13 pm: Edit
Q540.22: Followup question:
Is the income from this mission considered "economic income", and subject to the Economic Level of the receiving empire? It is not, as Col. Strong points out in the quoted rules, subject to exhaustion effects, so does that mean that it is similarly exempt from Economic Levels (Peace and Limited War)?
Mike, I think Chuck's answer is clear. Because it is not affected by exhaustion, it is not affected by Peace or Limited War. All three being a part of (652.2) as adjusted by (652.3).