T6C Econ

Klingons
Balance 22
Income 179
Repay debt 12 (58 at start, balance 46)
Build 117.5 (C8, D6M, FD7, 5xD5, 3xAD5, LTT, 4xF5E, 5xE4, B10 roll)
Repair 48.5
Activate 2xD6, 2xF5
Conv 15 (some during repair) - D6M, D6S, D7V, D5V, D7A, D6G

decided against repairing 100 pts this turn. All the outstanding ships can be fixed on BATS/SB/FRD within range of Fed targets at start of T7C. My debt would have been 40 higher so I saved myself a bit of interest at the cost of having some ships spread out a little. I had no need for them to be fixed on T6.

Lyrans
Balance: 0, debt was 14
New borrow: 10 (debt 24)
Income 128
Const: 79.5 (DN, STT, 2xCW, 2xDW, 3xFF, CVL, CWE, DWE, MB)
Repair: 41
Conv: 6 (CA to DN)
E&S: 2 (disruption of Hydran econ successful, cost them 6EP, Prime team crippled)

I've done 8 E&S raids now and had 2 successes. So can't complain too much. I don't think it's efficient in that I'm hurting the Hydran 1 for 1, but I'm willing to spend 8 to 10EP for the Lyrans to knock 6 EP off the Hydrans.

Will likely setup the MB at 0312. I think I have the ships now to at least threaten the back part of hydran space. Decided not to set it up within 6 of the Hydran homeworlds though.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, February 10, 2019 - 10:05 pm: Edit

"Decided not to set it up within 6 of the Hydran homeworlds though."

Good idea.

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Monday, February 11, 2019 - 12:25 pm: Edit

I did a count on coalition ships by type before starting movement and put them all in a spreadsheet.

Summary
Lyrans have 162 ships (not counting aux, fighters fast ships). Plus 8 more in depot.
Kzin space, 78 ships. Home area (repair and new) 32, Hydran space 55. 7 DN, 5 BC, 2 STT.

Klingons have 330 ships plus 8 in depot, again ships only, they also have 100 fighters on real ships.
Kzin space 70, fed border 73, Hydran space 97, new and repair able to strat to Fed space for T7 90. Will probably hold at least 10 of those for a Hydran resv.

Notable 3 C8, 2 C5, 10 D6M, 3 D7A, 9 D6D, 6 D6S. Only one set of BP, so a lack of CR10 ships to run more than 3 major prongs of attack versus the Feds. Kzins won't see a Klingon C8 for a while now, I may even pull the Hydran C8 out and let the Lyrans command there. However I have lots of maulers, Ted has not dedicated killing them.

So my T7 attack should be about 150 ships plus some new builds that can reach the couple fed border BATS. Maybe some Klingons in Kzin space will pass through the Marquis zone and shift to the fed border. Tops I may hit 200 SE.

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Monday, February 11, 2019 - 12:31 pm: Edit

I did a count on coalition ships by type before starting movement and put them all in a spreadsheet.

Summary
Lyrans have 162 ships (not counting aux, fighters fast ships). Plus 8 more in depot.
Kzin space, 78 ships. Home area (repair and new) 32, Hydran space 55. 7 DN, 5 BC, 2 STT.

Klingons have 330 ships plus 8 in depot, again ships only, they also have 100 fighters on real ships.
Kzin space 70, fed border 73, Hydran space 97, new and repair able to strat to Fed space for T7 90. Will probably hold at least 10 of those for a Hydran resv.

Notable 3 C8, 2 C5, 10 D6M, 3 D7A, 9 D6D, 6 D6S. Only one set of BP, so a lack of CR10 ships to run 3 or 4 fronts versus the Feds. Kzins won't see a Klingon C8 for a while now, I may even pull the Hydran C8 out and let the Lyrans command there. However I have lots of maulers

So my T7 attack should be about 150 ships plus some new builds that can reach the couple fed border BATS. Maybe some Klingons in Kzin space will pass through the Marquis zone and shift to the fed border. Tops I may hit 200 SE.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, February 11, 2019 - 01:46 pm: Edit

Actually, I have been hitting maulers - Dana hasn't been putting them up most of the time, or has not been putting them up in risky areas. A few times at the Hydran capital I wanted to kill them, but I rolled crap dice and settled for direct cripple to keep them from going and doing real damage at major planets. The primary mauler losses were at the Zin capital - where he lost 3 due to DD.

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 11:37 am: Edit

T6C movement is winding down. Hydran BATS 0114, 0315 are under attack by 18 and 12 lyrans respectively. Planets 0416 and 0519 are under attacker as well by Klingons. 0519 has RN, 2 LN, 2 CU and empty FCP TG plus 3 POL Homeworlds are being hit and pinned by a combined force. They have 2 moderate reserves off map. Either reserve could save 0519 but it might take both to save 416. Reserves aren't needed at the homeworlds, I have enough force their to devastate the remaining minors and if I'm willing to pay for it maybe get the non cap majors. But their are 20 PDU'S at the capital and I don't have any density to take it on.

Lyrans with a few Klingon CV's have finally shown up at the Count's SB with enough ships to kill it. Counts currently has 15 ships there but only one CV group and a bunch of FFks. Both Kzin reserves going there could
maybe save it and then be in an annoying spot able to strike at Lyran bases on his 6. But they wouldn't be able to get to the Marquis zone to defend it T7. I could add enough ships in to make the decision moot, but it's more interesting to leave him a choice.

I have also hit BATS 1605 with a large attack. This might be a more interesting place for him to reserve to, not that his reserves would be likely to save it, but they can retreat to 1705 and then have a few options on where they go from there on his turn. While still getting back to the Marquis SB for my T7. I'm probably going to be strat moving a lot of ships to the 1807 area though and establishing some reserves in the area.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 12:38 pm: Edit

In a surprising turn of events, the Klingons and Lyrans unilaterally announce peace, withdraw all forces from Kzinti and Hydran territory, and earmark reparation funds for damage inflicted on the innocent victims of this senseless war.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 04:57 pm: Edit

The Kzinti will declare war on the Lyrans the turn after that happens.

'cuz cats gotta fight.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, February 12, 2019 - 05:45 pm: Edit

.... And then the Klingons declare war on the Kzinti to support the Lyrans. And then the Hydrans declare war on the Klingons and Lyrans because now they're back on the menu again.

So we're back right where we started.

Oh, the Humanity! Or Felinity. Or Klinginity. Or Fartinity. Whatever.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 03:55 pm: Edit

Response to Q&A in Q&A discussions... but in brief - I don't think 203.732 can be used, as either reserve fleet can get to 1605 by leaving some of it's forces in 3 of the other hexes.

If both reserves go - they will need to use the same route (as it would avoid leaving the fewest equivalents).

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, February 13, 2019 - 04:51 pm: Edit

Here's the funny thing. Even Dana (at least last time I emailed him) was starting to think that my position was right.

I approached the issue like a lawyer - doing statutory analysis. Having a computer science background, he approached the issue later by trying to develop a flowchart of how to run reserve movement. He found that his flowchart broke because of ambiguities in the rule - and *specifically* because there is no defined connection (or lack thereof) between 203.73 and 203.74.

Paul, I have to be honest with you. You could very well be "right". However, in this particular case I don't think the question is best answered by logical analysis of the rules but rather by starting with "what is good for the game" or "what did the game designer intend". Because, IMHO, resolving the answer to my question based on pure logic is going to be impossible. Either way, it boils down to argument - and there are logical basie for opposite conclusions.

If there were one easy logical answer, Dana and I would have agreed to it already.

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Monday, February 18, 2019 - 03:08 pm: Edit

T6C is finished

Kzinti space -
the above question led to the destruction of a BS at 1502, as well as an ENG and a SAV. All 5 of my little ships retreated to 1401.

At 1605 Klingons lost a D6D in exchange for crippling a Kzin TGT/VP, MEC, EFF and destroying the Kzin BATs. I figured crippling 3 ships was better than killing an FKE, he won't have them available on my T7 for the Marquis SB defense.

902 Counts SB finally died on T6. Lyrans lost 2xCC, CW and took a few cripples. Kzin lost SB, SAV, SAS, BC, FFK, DDE, FKE, EFF and an FCR in the retreat fight across Lyran planet 1001.

In Hydran space, Lyrans destroyed BATS 0114, 0315 for 3 crippled DD's. Klingons occupied planet 0416 and ran from planet 0519.

Finally, Klingons/Lyrans devastated all 3 minors in Hydran cap killing 1 PDU left over from previous round and losing a D6D. Then came back for a second round attacking Hydramax. Klingons had a high EW line with D7A/D6M. Hydrans put up a lot of good CA's on the line (although no PAL) and had a compot of 155/8 vs 95/12. I went for 3 targets on the freeze, got a LM first attempt, nothing frozen second attempt, and disaster 3rd attempt. So I killed the 4 PDU with the mauler and left with a lot of minus points. Ted killed a D6M and D7A. Luckily the boom was rescued from the stasis cruiser.

End of turn I have about 85 Klingon SE around 1807 with a few FRDs in range of Fed 4th SB. Lyran/Klingons have about 80 to 90 other SE in Kzin space including 6xDN, 4xBC, STT and a few CC and a Klingon SAF within range of Marquis SB and area targets. I should be able to put up a really strong line over the Marquis and we'll see how hard Ted wants to fight over it.

I have 30SE within range of 7th fleet SB in the south plus another 10SE that can hit neighbouring BATS/planet.

I have 25SE within range of 3rd fleet SB and BATS in the center. Plus T7 klingon builds can hit a few border BATS and NZ planet. This is the weak area, but some ships from 1807 can reach the third SB as required to assist.

I've still got a 180SE in Hydran space. Unfortunately a lot of it is pin FF's, and not lots of high quality ships. It's more than enough to keep the Hydran main fleet near his Homeworlds and hurt his income. Once the Marquis SB goes down, the Lyrans can afford to transfer some DN's down to the Hydrans.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, February 18, 2019 - 04:16 pm: Edit

How many PDU's did Hydrax have - as 155/8 doesn't seem a lot?

48/1 for the SB, LAS for 3 EW and 36/4 from just 4 PDU's is 84/1 - so even if the LB was frozen - that doesn't seem much for a Cruiser line?

Saving the SFG makes the slight pain for more acceptable.

Going to be a lot of Klingon hulls available for a turn 7 invasion...

...I can see 3 Fed SB's dying and the Fed/Kz on map route going.

Not going to be pretty for the Alliance.

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Monday, February 18, 2019 - 04:46 pm: Edit

I went to a Hydramax, just a 4 PDU major. Hydrax has 18 PDU and 2 PDG. I expect it's line will be 350 or higher, maybe 400.

I'm not certain about the middle fed SB. But the Tholian 7th flt is gone as is one of the other two and I'm leaning to the 4th fleet as the easier one and priority.

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Monday, February 18, 2019 - 10:21 pm: Edit

Oh, the Hydrans captured the D6M at the capital. At least it wasn't the D7A. He also killed an E4A there.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - 03:01 am: Edit

...Sir

… I have some good news and some bad news....

Whats the good news?

….The Hydrans didn't capture a Stasis Cruiser!!….

If that's the good news, whats the bad news?


...They captured a Mauler instead.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - 05:46 pm: Edit

yummy Hydrans with maulers

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 - 06:07 pm: Edit

Mind you - could be a cunning plan...

...the Hydrans can't afford to repair efficient hulls....never mind inefficient hulls!!

Bankrupt the Hydrans in repairing Maulers

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 - 11:44 am: Edit

A6 has begun.

Kzinti: Treasury is 43 after everything. 1 turn of full capital yard (2 turns now of medium yard). Depot CVS, BF, CLE, SF. Near max repair capacity used and repaired 3*CVL, BF, 2*CVE, CLE, 4*EFF, CM, FF. Convert CM to MEC and FF to FKE. Build FFK at 1705 and build FKE offmap.

Raids: FF raids 701 (auto-success). BF raids 1702 (no reaction, auto-success).

Operational move 1: Duke's (16 nice SEQ) from 1502 to ships in 1602. He reacts 4 ships from 1701 and leaves an E3 there.

Moves continue.


Hydrans: Treasury at 55 after everything. Repair a D6M and pump it full of methane. Repair HNG offmap. Build PAL and CU. Convert last 2 PGB at Hydrax Major into 2*PDU. Build MON-V and build 2*fighter modules and deploy them on the FRD I have in 617. My thought here is that I want to have an utterly punishing line if he wants to come to Hydrax major. With only 180 SEQ in the theater, and him deploying his mobile repair capacity in the FTO, I don't *think* he's going to make a run at Hydrax major, but I want to solidify that decision as much as possible by threatening a 400+ compot line at the capital. Next turn I'll worry less about defenses and high-compot, high-value units and more about building up SEQ. Besides, the FRD fighters and MON fighters will get use *this turn* via the use of fighter strikes against Coalition units within 1 hex of 617.

Raids: Hydrans raid 1019 with HNG (auto-success), 614 with THR (against a crippled E4 which is blown to smithereens), and 1118 with a LGE+PT. He reacts in D5 from 1017. He gets *very* lucky when I roll 3s on both the initial attack and the duel against the F5. Sole result is F5 retreats crippled.

Operational move 1: Fighter strike (18*IFF) against 717 with SB and FRD fighters - 717 contains F5L+E4. He reacts 6 fighters from 718.

Moves continue.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, February 21, 2019 - 04:49 am: Edit

With the Federation likely to be attacked on turn 7 (and a lot of Coalition units withdrawing from the Hydran front) - would ship Equivalents have been better than upgrading PGB's and Monitor/FRD fighters?

That is an awful lof of Ep's which although keeping 617 safer....probably could have been built later?

You need to be attacking as the Hydrans

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Thursday, February 21, 2019 - 06:40 am: Edit

Well, he is attacking as the Hydrans this turn. We have a large fight at 718. He has 70SE vs my 42 SE. But I do have a large ship advantage in the theatre and he had no hope of getting anywhere near the klingon BATS 1013 or 1214.

A couple of small fights where he may not kill a ship he could cripple one and he will only lose fighters.

But yes, he probably could have held off on these purchases and did them at some future point. While I have more ships in the theatre then he does, a lot of them are FF/E4. I don't have anywhere near the quality to think about going up against his shipyards. If he ever saw 6 to 10 DN's strat move in, along with 50 or more CW's or heavier ships, then he could have upgraded his defence then next turn before I attack.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, February 21, 2019 - 09:33 am: Edit

Well, that's just the thing - attacking. The units I purchased this turn are good for attacking. I want the ability to have an extremely punishing line, particularly on pursuit. That will discourage him from taking on too much at the capital and elsewhere I choose to attack. Also, the Mon-V and the fighter modules for the FRD *will* see a return on investment in the form of fighter strikes on forces he keeps within 1 hex of 617 (indeed, they're being used now on picket forces in 717 and on the invaders sitting on 718).

The reason why I wanted them *now* is that he DOES have enough to make a *slow* run at the Hydran capital shipyards. I've been a Coalition player for a long time, and with 180 SEQ and a few more FRDs in the theater (not that hard) he very much could reduce the PDUs over the capital in 3-5 turns, depending on how hard he wants to fight. I know, I've done it before. By putting up a massively punishing line NOW I further discourage such an attempt.

I really can't make the Hydran capital much more secure than it is now - realistically. I *could* always buy more FRD+2*FTR mod, of course, but that is *expensive* at 18 EPs a pop. I could also upgrade the two MB I laid down over Hydrax, but in some ways that actually helps a concerted attacker, so not worth it to upgrade those bases.

So, unless I start seeing a redeployment of Coalition assets back on the Western Front, starting AT7 I'm going to focus on building up SEQ. Of course, he can always match that SEQ, but the point is naturally to draw said SEQ away from the Fed front. It's the Hydran way.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, February 22, 2019 - 02:58 pm: Edit

AT6 done.

ZTO: I made a mistake in operational movement and allowed Dana to react in a way that cut me off from retrograding to the Marquis SB. Since I used all Zin units in getting my COE and cripples to the offmap without suffering significant casualties, Marquis SB will be defended only by the 6 unreleased ships of the Marquis fleet. Federation 4th fleet will be of no avail, because no doubt he will pin 4th fleet with a force large enough to destroy the 4th fleet starbase.

While frustrating, the mistake counterbalances the coup I pulled off on destroying his upgrading BS and COE in 1502 on T6C using reserve movement tricks.

On the bright side, I couldn't have fought that hard anwyay - just not enough ships and I'm still working on whittling away the cripple backlog from the T5C capital assault. Also, this way, I will have somewhere between 70 and 90 SEQ threatening anywhere within the 7 hex-long Kzinti offmap area. This will complicate his defense for the subsequent T7A.

In the HTO, I pretty much succeeded. I got some bad dice, but nevertheless managed to trade a FFT and a crippled TG+S (both directed) for a killed D5S - and I also managed to kick him off planet 718 (which was due to give him 2 EPs this turn). I also killed 3 pickets and crippled two others.

The Hydrans ended with some 21 SEQ on the Western SB, and some 90 SEQ at the capital. Although both of my reserves are onmap at the Western SB and the capital (and therefore likely to be pinned), with most of his FRDs near Fed space I am reasonably confident that the Hydran capital planet (itself) is safe. However, I expect that he will drop at least the last remaining BATS, probably planet 419, and will devastate the two outer Hydran capital planets.

Maybe. He *can* do all that - the question is whether he wants to absorb the damage this turn.

Over to Dana for CT7 and the imminent invasion of the Federation.

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Friday, February 22, 2019 - 08:29 pm: Edit

So,

quick count on end of T6 Victory conditions.

Total alliance economy:
Kzinti: 32 + 4 for diplomats
Hydran: 50.4 + 1 for diplomats

Kzinti: 3 SB dest, 7 BATS
Hydran: 2 SB dest, 8 BATS

Lyran: 1 SB, 2 BATS

So at 3:1 for SB:BATS that is 25 net BATS destroyed. So I got that part of the Major Victory, but needed to knock down his income to less than 75 for the second part. Otherwise, I met both requirements for a tactical victory.

I looked at it last turn and think I might have been able to succeed at getting the Hydran income down a bit more. I could have devastated the 2 Major planets in the Hydran cap and also minor 519. That would have knocked 8 off, then I could have lost a couple more FF's and disrupted 2 more provinces. But I would have taken more cripples than I wanted to deal with. Especially over the majors at the capital. That would have risked the amount of pin ships I would have had available to protect the BATS at 1013.

By jim howard (Noseybonk) on Friday, February 22, 2019 - 11:57 pm: Edit

Dana send yourself to the pain booth immediately for not upgrading 1013 to a SB already...