Hi Randy,

Any updates on how the project is going? The last update was June 2015.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - 03:37 am: Edit

Honestly haven't touched it since then. Paid programming gigs have superceded the unpaid ones.
I have something different planned that I think is something SVC said he specifically wanted an outside developer to do, that ADB would market. It's just a matter of taking the time to do it.

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 11:36 am: Edit

Hi Randy,

Been a while since you posted any updates. Still working on this?

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Saturday, November 12, 2016 - 02:34 pm: Edit

Hey Ken,

Not lately...not much has changed since I accidentally baked my development LAMP server.

Thanks for asking though. I totally lost the spirit to do this after that happened (and was totally my fault).

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Sunday, November 13, 2016 - 12:36 pm: Edit

Hi Randy,

I looked at your Apocalypse2 web page. Very nice looking.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Sunday, November 13, 2016 - 05:57 pm: Edit

Ken,

Thanks, it was a prototype that I abandoned in favor of the other one which I accidentally destroyed.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, March 08, 2017 - 02:32 pm: Edit

Let me know ASAP if you want an update in CL52.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 - 01:31 am: Edit

Starting work on writing a program for playing Federation and Empire on a computer.

My initial goals will be for the game to be playable by hot seat or by email (the program will create a file you can send by email that can be read on the other player's computer). I will program in the rules for basic F&E 2010, minus a few (rules for more than two sides will not be implemented).

I am starting with a SIT editor, starting first with an Empire data structure.

I have written a map program for F&E in C++ but will not be writing THIS program in that language. Nevertheless, I already have data structures for representing a map and code for drawing it, so no doubt I can duplicate it in Java when the time comes.


I will be writing this in Java so people playing on MACs as well as PCs will be able to use it.

I will post weekly updates and work on it daily.

I do know the rules for F&E quite well and am very familiar with both face to face play and various ways of handling play by e-mail.

Barring catastrophic real life events, I intend to see this through.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 - 01:37 am: Edit

The code for the UI will be seperate from the code for handing the rules and playing, so that later code for other play methods will be able to be written more easily.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 - 11:24 am: Edit

Richard, I commend you for your effort. Good luck.

If you need someone to do data entry and you supply the data structure in a program I can access (e.g., Excel) then I can help you do some of the data entry - especially for SITs.

Suggest you think long and hard about the data structure before doing data entry. It's a nightmare to revise a data structure once all data has been entered (or at least it can be).

-T

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 - 12:38 pm: Edit

I've thought about data strutures for SFB and F&E on and off back to the 90s. Sometimes I've even thought hard about it.

The first significant data structure I am working on is the Empire class, which so far has a few elements for things like the full name, short name, short name as a plural, a long description of the empire and an element for notes.

This structure will also have a reference to the SIT and OOB of the empire, as well as a reference to the casualties suffered by the empire.

As we've discussed in the past, I will be grateful if you do things like data entry for the SIT editor.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 - 01:09 pm: Edit

Willco. I'm not a programmer, and really don't want to be, but I can type nearly 90 WPM.

By Marc Michalik (Kavik_Kang) on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 - 10:45 pm: Edit

Something I've been trying to explain. You don't even have to be a programmer to do this type of thing these days. I would look into game making tools and editors, Richard, like...

https://store.steampowered.com/app/585410/GameMaker_Studio_2_Desktop/

or

https://store.steampowered.com/app/286160/Tabletop_Simulator/

Or even Unity if you are a programmer. If you "do it old school" you are just re-doing a lot of unnecessary work all over again for a worse finished product in the end. Making a new generation of "tools for playing SFB and F&E" would be easy today compared too what it was in the past.

By Marc Michalik (Kavik_Kang) on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 - 10:46 pm: Edit

And too the people in the other thread... look at Tabletop Simulator, and look at SFBOL... can you honestly not see any difference here?

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 - 11:50 pm: Edit

I would prefer that discussion of things in 'other threads' that is not related to this project be done in those other threads if you don't mind.

...

To create something that implements the rules of F&E you DO have to be a programmer. I wish to get experience using Java and this seems like a good way to go about it. Anywho, I looked at what you suggested a bit, and I'm still going to do it this way. If you wish it to be done using Game Maker Studio or some other method, feel free to give it a go yourself and I will look forward to seeing it.

By Marc Michalik (Kavik_Kang) on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 - 11:40 am: Edit

You don't have to be a programmer in 2019 to re-create board games on the computer, actually, that was my point. The SFU actually needs these "tool for playing the board games online" to survive as anything other than a legacy game of the past that you can still find PDF files for the rules but everything else for it becomes harder and harder to find as time goes by. The "tools" replace all the components we played with, leaving the PDF rules and software for the SFB players of the 21st century.

I hope your version of F&E can serve that purpose for F&E, but there is no reason to do it from scratch in 2019. You are repeating a lot of work that others have already done better than you can. Re-creating board games as computer software in 2019 is easy and almost any game editor can do that.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 - 02:19 pm: Edit

You are just repeating yourself now. Thanks for the thoughts.

By Marc Michalik (Kavik_Kang) on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 - 07:06 pm: Edit

I know this is also repeating myself a little, but I have a lot of respect for your F&E knowledge, Richard. You and Ted Fay seem to have as much playing experience as anyone else, at least posted games certainly the most by far. So you are a perfect person to make an F&E, lets call them "Playing Tools"... Paramount will like that term.

I am sure that SVC would agree that considering your audience is a key factor in making any game. You should think of your audience as Chuck Strong & Steve Petrick... people who wouldn't normally play a computer game. This works both ways, it will also automatically work for new players/young people.

If you make something that is so much like sitting down at a table and playing it that Chuck likes it, and SPP will at least try it, then you will have succeeded in the one aspect that I have been calling "accessibility".

I would think, obviously, that if Chuck isn't interested a way of playing F&E online then it isn't good enough for anyone but a hard core junkie, right? Maybe ask Chuck to review at various stages to get his opinion, if he is willing. He is a great benchmark for you, he should want to play it even though he has no interest in computer games that I know of.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 - 08:36 pm: Edit

I do love F&E quite a bit, else I probably wouldn't be doing this.

Generally I try to avoid speaking for other people , but to each their own, I guess. I will let the various people you mention speak for themselves (if they wish) rather than take your word for it.

I intend it to be playable to satisfy various ways of playing. The program will have a feature to facilitate house rules (in that you will be able to do things that are normally disallowed) - there will be an edit or override option (if you will) to allow players to perform actions outside of the normal limits. These will be flagged when they occur and will be rejected if other players do not agree.

I also am very limited as far as finances, so what I write will mostly be limited to the hardware I have (I don't have a MAC, but Java is supposed to be cross platform compatible, so if I handle things properly it is my hopoe that the code will work with any operating system that supports Java).

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 - 09:10 pm: Edit

Unfortunately, Marc, it's simply not true that you can make something as good without programming it yourself. That's what Cyberboard and Vassal are and, while they're good, it's hard to get them to keep track of stuff like economics. And Vassal (I haven't actually used cyberboard) is slow - anything that Richard builds is going to be much faster because it doesn't have all the overhead of generality.

To Richard: I have no Java experience myself, but if you are putting the code on Github or the like, I'd be happy to (try to) contribute some. If you're not doing that, I'll wait until the game is more fully-formed, at which point I might be able to contribute.

By Marc Michalik (Kavik_Kang) on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 - 10:11 pm: Edit

I have devoted my life to making computer games and keeping my finger on the pulse of the gaming audience for the last 40 years. If you had another career, you aren't on top of it in the same way that I am.

Modern game editors are very powerful, board game rules are very simple. Even Charles S Roberts phased-turns are simple to handle in a game editor. YOU DO NOT have to be a programmer to re-create board games on the computer today. I posted links to two different things that allow you to do that in this thread. That is a point I keep trying to make that people keep contradicting and then saying I am repeating myself.

If you can do what Richard is saying he can do, if you are even just a decent self taught programmer, then Unity will make you POWERFUL like the "game programmer" that you think you aren't. Today's game making editors, for programmers and non-programmers, are very powerful and most of whatever you want to do has already been done for you within them if you just learn them. Learning them is less them and making your game is less work than making your game from scratch.

I am just trying to give you advice, and tell you what it is that the SFU actually needs. The SFU needs accessible "Online Playing Tools" for SFB, F&E, & SFM. They need to be like Game Table, where you literally sit down at a virtual table and use SFB, F&E, and SFM maps, counters, and play aids as if you were playing in real life. Seeing all of exactly the same things as if you were sitting at a table with the real thing. This is the future of "legacy games that are still making money". D&D could do this, too.

By Marc Michalik (Kavik_Kang) on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 - 10:14 pm: Edit

Something that Steve Cole, Steve Petrick, and Chuck Strong would actually consider giving a try because they understood what they were looking at at first glance...

...and this just automatically works, like magic, for what the younger audience will be looking for as well. Don't think you don't know what they want. If SVC, SPP, & Colonel Strong might play it, that is what the new generation wants too.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 - 11:11 pm: Edit

Marc, please cool your jets in this topic. The F&E guys will let you know when they need or want your help.

Jean
WebMom

By Marc Michalik (Kavik_Kang) on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 - 11:45 pm: Edit

I'm sorry Jean, and ADB.

By Bill Steele (Bill83501) on Thursday, February 07, 2019 - 09:21 am: Edit

Marc, I used to program way back in the '80's. I made my own DAC in basic. Ships were stored in files and the DAC was just like the page. I was proud that I was able to do that on an Osborne 64. Sometimes we do things more for doing them than for the finished product.